The puzzle of the socalled "Bach variations".

[yanni]

A lot of music that helps us experience, heal and release the spiritual kundalini energy of our 7 chakras is being created today; but Bach was there first! His Toccata in F is the most powerful and vivid musical experience of the chakras ever created, or that ever will be. It is also a key to all the esoteric mysteries: tarot, chakra system, kundalini, alchemy, astrology, kabbalah, sacred geometry and proportions, and more.

You may also try yogurt if yoga fails!

Coming back to Bach/Amyand/Handel/Cocchi:

He never really died in 1750,1740,1759 or 1758:

Maria Theresa had him chasing around for Vampires in Moravia around 1745-1760(allegedly), while also asking him to reform the Viennese medical system-taking it away from the jesuits-and to assume censorship control of Austria, till he finally died in 1772.

As Gerard van Swieten, he was of great service to her as her personal physician from earlier on (1736), apparently :

Praeterea censeo,vulvam sacratissime Majestatis,ante coitum diutius esse titiblandam

She then gave birth to some sixteen children!

Did he also treat her father, emperor Charles VI who died an early death, October 1740, perhaps poisoned by mushrooms?

Handel's slopy and flopy Imeneo may provide the answer, when examined together with Dr Claudius Amyand's sudden 1740 "dissappearance" to a better world.

[Musicology]

Thank you Yanni,

Your last posts remind me of the scene in Kubrick's '2001 - A Space Odessy' in the sense that information (rather than answers to questions and discussions on their relevance) would resolve the question of whether G.F. Handel was father of the 20 children attributed to J.S. Bach. And not discussions on other diversionary issues. Still, we tried, right, Yanni ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwBmPiOmEGQ

[yanni]

Thank you for inviting me to take up your 'poisoned chalice' (oops, extravagant offer !) of showing that G.F. Handel/J.S. Bach/Amyrand and Antonio Cocchi were not always in the same place at the same time. I accept your offer.

apparently yogurt has failed to deliver, no kundalini has been released!

Have you tried Kellog's method?

[Musicology]

Yes, Yanni. I had Kellog's cornflakes this morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A86e...eature=related

(Angela Hewitt lives in London. She has recently made some recordings of Bach transcriptions that are wonderful. Here is one of them).

[yanni]

Right Kellogg, wrong method, no kundalini.

Har, har, har, Wahe!
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=_4xl_4...eature=related

[Musicology]

Anna Mailian
Sharakan

Manuscript Music of Ancient Armenia
c. 430 AD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk0buDhyGSE

[GuyNic]

I have been so entertained by this discussion, that I decided to join this site. But I wanted to take a short, regressive step in the content of this thread to correct an error Yanni. In post #204 you state that....'Care in the detail is equally important to any art, the one of finding the "errors" of professional history writers and archivist-interpreters included. Such is the case with the following "family site", caring not for the detail but to "name" their relative "sources" of "misunderstanding" nevertheless:'.

I am sorry to say that the source you quote is inaccurate and that Frederick Nicolay was appointed Page of the Backstairs to Queen Charlotte on the 5th September 1761 (source: Printed Lists, Royal Archives, Windsor), which makes the 10 year chronology (as well as the additional reference of poor Augusta Georgiana Louisa Nicolay) correct.

All things considered however, I am enjoying the overall, conspirital tone and le Comte de Saint-Germain is just the icing on the cake! Oh, just to muddy the water further, did you know that le Marquis Jean de Nicolay (d.1737) was private tutor to Voltaire?

Who is Bach again??

[Emil Miller]

Before this thread becomes a tripartite discussion, wouldn't it be better if it were moved to the General Chat section rather than remain on this sub section?
This part of the Forum is for general discussion of music, films etc. whereas this thread deals with specific questions concerning the esoteric nature of certain Bach compositions and has produced a protracted correspondence that is probably of little or no interest to a majority of members. It doesn't seem appropriate for a forum that has been set up for broader discussion of the disciplines mentioned.

[MarkBastable]

Before this thread becomes a tripartite discussion, wouldn't it be better if it were moved to the General Chat section rather than remain on this sub section?
This part of the Forum is for general discussion of music, films etc. whereas this thread deals with specific questions concerning the esoteric nature of certain Bach compositions and has produced a protracted correspondence that is probably of little or no interest to a majority of members. It doesn't seem appropriate for a forum that has been set up for broader discussion of the disciplines mentioned.

You might be right. But it'd be interesting to see a definition of the line that, in this context, divides the specific from the general.

For instance, into which of those categories might the following threads fall?

Which is the most emotional form of musical expression?

Opera - is it absurd?

Operetta - is it opera for frivolous people?

Gilbert and Sullivan - inspired or irritating?

Are the lyrics of The Pirates of Penzance merely dazzlingly clever, or do they have any real depth?

What, actually, was the lot of a policeman in the latter half of the nineteenth century, and is it accurately reflected in the song?

Was W S Gilbert merely a front for Dickens writing lyrics for comic opera, which he liked to do in between knocking out chapters of Bleak House?

[yanni]

Ahaaaah, finally a "Nic."!

Why should I trust the Windsor Royal archives on the exact date of Frederick Nicolay's backstairs appointment and where then did Michael Kassler draw his "wrong" info from*?

Not that the issue (61 or 62) is that important really. He first came to London in 1736 and did accompany princess Charlotte to London in 1761 anyway (leaving him plenty of time for other matters 1761-62).

Otherwise I fully agree that ONE of THE issues is 1762 (my post 204 and previous on Frederic de Nicolay).

No, I was not aware of a Jean de Nicolay, tutor of Voltaire, feel free to introduce him to us.

Regards!

*A.Hyatt King is the answer, but...

I have been so entertained by this discussion, that I decided to join this site. But I wanted to take a short, regressive step in the content of this thread to correct an error Yanni. In post #204 you state that....'Care in the detail is equally important to any art, the one of finding the "errors" of professional history writers and archivist-interpreters included. Such is the case with the following "family site", caring not for the detail but to "name" their relative "sources" of "misunderstanding" nevertheless:'.

I am sorry to say that the source you quote is inaccurate and that Frederick Nicolay was appointed Page of the Backstairs to Queen Charlotte on the 5th September 1761 (source: Printed Lists, Royal Archives, Windsor), which makes the 10 year chronology (as well as the additional reference of poor Augusta Georgiana Louisa Nicolay) correct.

All things considered however, I am enjoying the overall, conspirital tone and le Comte de Saint-Germain is just the icing on the cake! Oh, just to muddy the water further, did you know that le Marquis Jean de Nicolay (d.1737) was private tutor to Voltaire?

Who is Bach again??

[Musicology]

Yanni has been asked (repeatedly) to prove his speculation that G. F. Handel was one and the same man as J.S. Bach. An idea so preposterous the documented birth of no less than 20 Bach children are not enough for him to provide a shred of evidence.

It is not that conversation has ended which gives it value but the fact that conversation (and evidence) form no part of Yanni's outlandish fairy stories.

I agree the nutritional value of such exchanges is now close to zero - as almost anyone can see. So that, in the end, some good has come of them, if only in the opposite way from what we hoped. Such ideas represent, to honest discussions of music and its history, the equivalent of the products of Monsanto or of Codex Alimentarius.

Regards

[MarkBastable]

Yanni has been asked (repeatedly) to prove his speculation that G. F. Handel was one and the same man as J.S. Bach. An idea so preposterous the documented birth of no less than 20 Bach children are not enough for him to provide a shred of evidence.

I have to say that, to the educated and neutral observer, Yanni's theory looks no more or less preposterous than Musicology's.

[GuyNic]

[QUOTE=yanni;967576]Ahaaaah, finally a "Nic"!

Why should I trust the Windsor Royal archives on the issue of Frederick Nicolay's backstairs appointment and where then did Michael Kassler draw his "wrong" info from?
1. You shouldn't and neither should I (but its all we have until a connection to the European Nicolays via Gaspard (or Caspar) De Nicolay - in Saxe-Gotha - can be established) and 2. Don't know Kassler's source, so I am as in the dark as you are.

Otherwise I fully agree that one of THE issues is 1762 (my post 204).
Noted

No, I was not aware of a Jean de Nicolay, tutor of Voltaire, feel free to introduce him to us.
Only a reference on the following site (http://gillesdubois.blogspot.com/200...ue-sur-la.html), but which I think (somewhere references the historical chronologies of BOISLILE (Arthur de). Histoire de la maison de Nicolay. Rédigée et publiée sous les auspices de M. le marquis de Nicolay. Nogent-le-Rotrou, 1873-1875 fort vol. gr. in-4, br)

Jean Nicolay fut tuteur de Voltaire. Nicolas Arouet, greffier à la Chambre des comptes et père de Voltaire, craignant qu'après sa mort ses biens ne fussent dissipés en vaines prodigalités, confia à son premier président la tutelle de ses deux fils et alla jusqu' à lui substituer leur héritage. Ce digne magistrat accepta la tutelle et refusa l'héritage, Voltaire, dit Ruihière, conserva toujours pour le nom de Nicolay, la plus tendre reconnaissance et une sorte de piété filiale. Cet homme, d'un caractère et d'une vertu antiques, mourut le 6 octobre 1737, âgé de près de quatre-vingts ans. De son mariage avec Elisabeth Lamoignon, soeur du chancelier de ce nom'.


Translation(ish) - via Google, so feel free to chip in with clarifications: 'Jean Nicolay was the tutor of Voltaire. Nicolas Arouet, clerk of the Room of Accounts and father of Voltaire, fearing that after his death his goods were not dissipated in vain prodigalities, entrusted to its first chair, the supervision of his two sons and went to substitute their heritage to him. This worthy magistrate accepted the supervision and refused heritage, Voltaire known as Ruilhere, always preserved for the name of Nicolay the most tender recognition and a kind of filial devotion. This man a character and virtue 'antiques' died on October 6, 1737, almost 80 years old.

Not sure what to write next...so I will stop. Glad to meet everyone though.

[yanni]

Hi, Guy

Having refreshed my picture of our (of mutual interest) "Saxe-Gotha Nicolays":

It all boils down really to the identity of the Vyborg Nicolay (+1819/20), same man imo as Sir George Amyand, Baron Alexander Stroganov, F.M.Grimm etc etc (the many etc's not to be underestimated) ie "le comte de Saint Germain".

Alternatively, to the true identity of the russian minister of foreign affairs, 1807-1812, Nikolay Petrovich whose duties seem to be identical to those of Count Soltikoff ....now the Imperial Minister of Foreign Affairs(Sept 1807 he replaced Budberg)*

(1807, 16.07., Carl Ludwig Cocceji wellcomes Napoleon in Glogau during Tilsit).

May 1808 count Rumyantzef , head of Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Russia, invites Capodistria to serve in his Ministry and sends him his travel expenses .Capodistria leaves Corfu for Russia in July and, in same month(?) ....visits Baron Nicolai in Finnland wherefrom he writes to his father on the beautifull country side of Monrepos, Vyborg landscaped by the Baron, to suit “philosophers and scientists”. (Eleni Koukkou, Ioannis Capodistrias, 14th edition, Athens 2001, page 31)

Great interests go hand in hand with greater lies, least of them music!

*See "Flower's Political review and monthly register. (monthly miscellany)" by Benjamin Flower p81: Soltikoff becomes Romantzov on the same day (Lord Gower to one of the Cannings)!!

[Musicology]

Yes, let's ignore Yanni's 'doppelganger' story altogether.

(You have to laugh ! Time for a Mozart 'divertimento', my lord !)

The mercurial antidote. Complete with flavourings, artitifical colourings and genetically modified additives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jua7gqezWVY