Was Jane Austen (1775-1817) Black?

[dafydd manton]

Say no more, squire, say no more, nudge nudge, wink wink.

[hillwalker]

I remember hearing that Henry Ford allowed all his customers to choose any colour Model T they wanted, as long as it was black. I did not realise the same applied to Austens.

[dafydd manton]

Continuing the thought as to whether Miss Austen was black, unless there were some pretty weird genetics going on in the family, I've found portraits of Henry Austen (brother) Admiral Charles Austen (brother) and Admiral Francis Austen (brother). Anybody care to guess what colour they were? Yup, you're right, they are all as Caucasian as you could shake a stick at. (You might also reason that a black Admiral in the Royal Navy would cpo for a certain amount of attention, as was the case with Jack Punch, described then as mulatto)

Just after I posted that last comment, a thought crossed my mind. Why the heck do I care? Who gives a monkey's anyway? Why am I bothering? I'm off for a bevvy!

[Egmond Codfried]

Sallow doesn't mean light brown, it means sickly, pale, or yellow tinged.

Thus, the "without colour" that follows "sallow skin."

I think we've covered your misinterpretation of 18th and 19th century English before.

As i'm not a native english speaker I consulted a dictionary

1 sallow; een type of tree
2 sickly yellow, pale
3 sallow; a noun.

Yet from her books, which to me are the supreme sources, its used as the name for a 'fixed' light skincolour. Mrs. Ferrars, Carherine Morland and Mr. Henry Tilney are sallows. Jane Fairfax is very lightly coloured: a sallow as well.
Both Mr. Elton and Mr. Henry Crawford are 'black.' Crawford's sister Mary Crawford is very brown, with lively dark eyes. So there can be no doubt Jane Austen means 'black' as a complexion, not black hair.

Jane Austen is described as brown
Her personages are black, brown, very brown and sallow
She has them intermarrying
Austen discusses skin bleaching, rouging up (painting oneself white) and powdering of the hair.

About Emma Watson who was very brown: some saw no fault and some no beauty. While for others her brown skin was the annihilation of every grace

Her niece Eliza de Feullide speaks about her own 'native brown colour.'

The Maitland girls, one becomes Austen sister in law she described as 'with brown skins and a good deal of nose. According to eliza one married an East Indian man.

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Jane Austen is compared to Shakespeare, the writer who gave us Othello



William Shakespeare: A Black European: member of an intermarrying fixed mulatto race with some looking more African, Asian or white.

You have Blacks and you have the image that whites have given of Blacks. Blacks were the first people, the oldest human bones are found in East Africa. Black civilisation already exists 10.000 years. Black Slavery only existed for the past 500 years. 10.000-500 is 9.500. I like to discuss these 9.500 years when Blacks brought culture to many parts of the world. If you folks don't know this, then its because this information is kept from you. But lets not digress, even dear Jane Austen wrote about Blacks, was described as Black and I cannot get any of you to aknowledge what Austen wrote herself. When one visits the South of Spain one is struck by the closeness of Africa to Europe.

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http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&so...=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Images of a whitenend Obama: to show the principle of whitening portraits of a person who is described as black or comes from blacks, so we know he should be black in looks.
If they would make a Obama museums in a hundred years when all the people who saw him are dead, they could present him as white, showing all these fake, white portraits.

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I have looked into 'Jane Austen and the body' and 'Jane Austen and Darwin' and find these works utterly useless.

Jane Austen and the Enlightenment is much better, still misguided. She was against the nobility, and favoured the gentry, which in Holland is the patrician class. But mostly a realist and accepting of the new configuration after the French revolution. She wrote self-help and self-improvement books for blacks like herself, and warned them to pay attention in order not to loose even more. Blackness she equated with health. Whites she called pink. She derrises Mrs Blount for her pink husband. Emma setting out to improve the white Miss Harriet smith is the story of how blacks gave civilisation to whites.

[kiki1982]

Ooooh, white caucasian people with dark eyes do not exist! They are all wearing contact lenses, surely.

[dafydd manton]

"Of a dark-haired and dark-eyed people, with pale skin." The Welsh!! An ancient Celtic race. And don't you dare post a photograph of somebody just up from Merthyr Main pit!



Just a small, almost tiny little linguistic point, almost too insignificant to mention, but Rouging up. From the French rouge. Red. To redden. With beet juice, strawberries, cranberries, and nowadays cosmetics. Rouge. Red. Not white.

[Egmond Codfried]

Skin Bleaching

These sources are in regard to Persuasion where Austen writes about the bleaching of skin. If these people were white why would they use white face paint and poisonous bleaches? Even powdering their hair.
Skin whitening, practiced by (some) people of colour, through history. This practice remains controversial among coloured folks, and products are never advertised as skin-bleach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_whitening

Gowland’s

http://hibiscus-sinensis.com/regency/skincare.htm

http://www.cleopatrasboudoir.com/app...smetic-history

Venetian Ceruse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian_ceruse

http://www.cleopatrasboudoir.com/app...-skin-whitener

Rouging is a euphemism for ‘enamelling’

http://cosmeticsandskin.com/aba/quee...enamelling.php

Persuasion: Sir Walter Elliot recommends rouging to Lady Russel, who apparently is ‘not fit to be seen’ in the morning.

Jane Austen in a letter to Cassandra writes about ‘the Adulteress’ who is rouged and looks stupid for doing so.

[Lokasenna]

I'm sorry, but are you also insinuating that Shakespeare was black? Othello is hardly a love letter to the moorish race...

[Egmond Codfried]

This source relates to Mansfield Park.

On the site there is a portrait of William KNIBB (1803-1845.) His skin looks very dark.



Another portrait of William Knibb

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Knibb

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....etc/page3d.htm

Oxford DNB Vol 3

"William Knibbs: 'He frequentley proclaimed his identity with black people and attended the ant-slavery convention in England in 1840, speaking again on behalf of the freedman.''

I could not make out how William Knibbs relates to James Langford Nibbs, Jane Austen's godfather who owned an Antiguan plantation. But they both appear on the same source which gives the family name as (K)Nibbs, with Jane Austen.

The portrait shows a brown man, who was born in England. And he fought against slavery, giving his identity as 'with the blacks.'

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Oxford DNB Vol. 2, p. 973
Lemma: Jane Austen
About the Rice-portrait

"The eyes are brown and rather narrow, the skin typically brunette but perhaps powdered, the nose straight, the mouth small. This means that the girls features accord with Austen's own description of the colouring and features of her heroines, all of whom are brunettes.'

Jane writes: sallow, brown, very brown and black.
This piece aknowledge a connection between Austen's brown skin and that of her heroines, but does not put these fact in the perspective of etnicity, 'race.", or class.

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One wonders if these people really read anything written by Jane Austen. And where is the humility, as nobody knows everything. I'm quietly printing sources to be able to form a reconstruction and work with what Jane Austen herself brings to the table. What does she has to say about colour?

Well, she invites us to look at colour, and the many shades and types of blacks and coloureds. In Emma, Mr. Elton is:

"handsome',
even 'pretty,'
'had not his equal for beauty and agreeableness,'
'a very good sort of man,' 'and a very respectable vicar of Highbury,'
'he knows he is a very handsome man,'
'a young man might be very safely recommanded to take mr. Elton as model,'
'quite the gentleman himself, and without low connections,'
'he was known to have independent property. '

This is long before Austen writes:

'Mr. Elton, spruce, black and smiling.'

[kiki1982]

As I said, {edit} white people did not think they were white enough. If one works outside as a farmer, for example, then one becomes tanned. Mind, not 'black', just tanned. Just look at professional cyclists nowadays: they are all brown up to the middle of their upper legs and arms, just because they are continuously driving around in the blazing sun.

So, as this has been established... Historically, people who had money had to show it somehow. Apart from doing that with jewellery and the like, they could also do that by having white skin, whiter than white, even if they were caucasian and white on comparison with real blacks. At least they had to look whiter than the average farmer of all people. The ideal was almost marble white. Unhealthy and impossible, but they did their best: carrying parasols around, wearing gloves at all times, not getting out walking, like Elizabeth is reproached for in P&P. But indeed, that whiter than white skin colour is unattainable, because it would probably involve sitting indoors all day and all night. Not possible. So, they resulted in bleaching.

Already the Greeks did it, with lead white of all things! Later also rice powder came into use mixed with fatty things in order to make it an easily applicable cream. In Elizabethen times certainly, along with other make-up like rouge.
You do not need to be black to want to bleach your skin, my friend. Or do you think that Dita von Tease is not actually white caucasian, albeit a little powdered in forties' style?

[hillwalker]

I think your mission is totally misguided.

Unless you can actually interview Jane Austen in order to ascertain that she was in fact referring to the colour of Mr.Elton's skin your assumptions are rather flawed to say the least.
Also, since photography was not available until the 20th century, making statements that someone's skin looks a little browner than white based on paintings that discolour over age anyway is ludicrous. On that basis one might be led to believe anything.

[Egmond Codfried]

I think your mission is totally misguided.

I'm still waiting to see any proof that you actually read Miss Austen and a few scholarly books about Austen, to determine whether there is any merit in this rude assertion.

Unless you can actually interview Jane Austen in order to ascertain that she was in fact referring to the colour of Mr.Elton's skin your assumptions are rather flawed to say the least.
Also, since photography was not available until the 20th century, making statements that someone's skin looks a little browner than white based on paintings that discolour over age anyway is ludicrous. On that basis one might be led to believe anything.

Dear, off course it would have been wonderful if we could interview dear Jane Austen herself. But alas, she died very young, and even during her professional period was very shy. What we have are her books, her letters and the remembrance by family and friends. Between these few sources a lot of information can be distilled. By comparing her work with that of her contemporaries, by comparing her works with the historical facts of her era like wars, French Revolution, The Terror, colonialism, slavery, women liberation. To be able to do this one has to know something about history.

The way Jane Austen presents colour is straightforward. Mr. Henry Crawford is black and plain and his sister is very brown, and very lovely. But Mr. Crawford's looks grow on the Bertram ladies and both fall madly in love. Even so that Miss Bertram, six months after her marriage with Mr. Rushworth, elopes with Mr. Crawford. If there is some strange hidden symbolism in the blackness of Mr. Crawford and his dark brown sister, we have to dig it out.

There is reference to colour in her letters, as well in those of her cousin De Feuillide. So as they spoke about colour in their real life, Austen wrote about skin colour in the virtual world of her books. There is a very pointed reference to Gowland’s, a bleaching lotion. We only know about coloureds who use bleaches, we never heard about white people bleaching themselves to be even whiter. People who make this claim should proof this with sources. There is reference to ‘rouging’ in her book Persuasion, an euphemism for enamelling, or painting oneself white before adding rouge and blue pigments to the temple veins. I do not see why and how whites would paint themselves white. Blacks painting themselves white is another thing. And more interesting if we learn from science that it was restricted to the highest nobility.

The books I mention here are a few of the ones I have been reading, because nobody is born with any knowledge. Yet some knowledge is faulty. Like the first biographical notices by Jane Austen’s brother Henry and her nephew James Edward Austen Leigh were manifested untruthful. They, in accordance with the family choose to give the world a wrong idea about the relative they loved and admired so much. Why? What were they hiding, and why? How disclosure would have hurt her remembrance? and why.

Personally I take my clue from her nephew who writes that people who understand what Austen’s books are really about have ‘true abilities.’ Her books are the test to determine who knows, and who does not know. Perhaps I may add; those who do not want to know.

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A few sources, secondary literature about Jane Austen

1. Jane Austen's 'outlandish cousin' : the life and letters of Eliza de Feuillide / Le Faye, Deirdre
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 20-08-2010; Signatuur: 7154 H 41; Verlengingen: 1;

2. Jane Austen and the war of ideas / Butler, Marilyn
Band info: 1975; Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 20-08-2010; Signatuur: 7324 D 34; Verlengingen: 1;

3. Absent voices : the story of writing systems in the West / Altman, Rochelle
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 20-08-2010; Signatuur: MFG 332; Verlengingen: 1;

4. Jane Austen : her homes and her friends / Hill, Constance
Band info: 1902; Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 20-08-2010; Signatuur: 814 A 26; Verlengingen: 1;

5. Mansfield Park / Austen, Jane
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 20-08-2010; Signatuur: AFI 347; Verlengingen: 1;

6. Jane Austen / Lynch, Jack
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 20-08-2010; Signatuur: 14004593; Verlengingen: 1;

7. Jane Austen in context / Todd, Janet
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 22-08-2010; Signatuur: AFI 345;

8. Jane Austen and representations of Regency England / Sales, Roger
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 22-08-2010; Signatuur: ACX 758;

9. Jane Austen and the Enlightenment / Knox-Shaw, Peter
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 25-08-2010; Signatuur: FAN 574;

10. Orientalism once more (2003) / Said, Edward
; Signatuur: 2267013;

In Mansfield Park dear Fanny Price seems to suffer from ill health which also affects her emotional responses. Still she is not as worse as her aunt, Lady Bertram who is really a kind of harmless imbecile, or her own mother, Mrs. Price who seems somewhat detached from real life.

My novel idea is that the personage of Fanny Price, up to a point, pays tribute to two of Jane Austen's family members who were mentally disabled.

For I read in Oxford DNB Vol. 3 p.958:

Cassandra Austen Leigh, Jane’s mother had a brother Thomas Leigh (1747-1821) [who] was born with a mental disability and cared for outside the family.'

Jane's brother "George Hastings (1766-1838), was epileptic and at six was sent to join Cassandra's brother Thomas.'

It would only be fitting that family minded Jane would include references to all her family members, the dashing one's as well the less dashing one's, in her books.

[MarkBastable]

Do you think that anyone reading this thread is going to slap their forehead and say, "My God - it's all so obvious now. Jane Austen was black!"

Even if you're right, you're wasting your time. I'd say that you've put your case and it's probably best now to leave it at that.

[dafydd manton]

I had noticed that no mention is made of Hitler, a swarthy little so-and-so. Nor Napoleon. Nor that most notorious of pirates, Black Bart (Barti Ddu), so called because of his black heart, NOT the colour of his skin. He came from Cei Newydd, which is hardly a stronghold of the Moorish nations. Seems to lack balance, so I shall hold off the forehead slapping for a bit, if you don't mind, Mark.

[Egmond Codfried]

Mansfield Park

Black characters played by white actors.



Mary Crawford

Mansfield Park
Chapter 5
The young people were pleased with each other from the first. On each side there was much to attract, and their acquaintance soon promised as early an intimacy as good manners would warrant. Miss Crawford’s beauty did her no disservice with the Miss Bertrams. They were too handsome themselves to dislike any woman for being so too, and were almost as much charmed as their brothers with her lively dark eye, clear brown complexion, and general prettiness. Had she been tall, full formed, and fair, it might have been more of a trial: but as it was, there could be no comparison; and she was most allowably a sweet, pretty girl, while they were the finest young women in the country.

http://www.pemberley.com/etext/MP/chapter5.htm




Henry Crawford

Her brother was not handsome: no, when they first saw him he was absolutely plain, black and plain; but still he was the gentleman, with a pleasing address. The second meeting proved him not so very plain: he was plain, to be sure, but then he had so much countenance, and his teeth were so good, and he was so well made, that one soon forgot he was plain; and after a third interview, after dining in company with him at the Parsonage, he was no longer allowed to be called so by anybody. He was, in fact, the most agreeable young man the sisters had ever known, and they were equally delighted with him. Miss Bertram’s engagement made him in equity the property of Julia, of which Julia was fully aware; and before he had been at Mansfield a week, she was quite ready to be fallen in love with.

The movie: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/...haracters.html