D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[kelby_lake]

I like 'Piano'. That appears in a lot of poetry anthologies.

[Janine]

I had totally forgotten about this poem I just came across it again and thought "that would be good to post in the short story tread". Obviously, I'm slowly loosing my mind

How about a song about Ophelia, to see another artists view on things?
Nathalie Merchant - Ophelia
Way more upbeat than the Lawrence poem, and I can't find any relation but the title character

As for the short stories: I've recently read England My England and I would like to talk about one of the stories in there, but I really don't know where to start... I mean: we do not really seem to get around to picking a new story, so maybe there could be just a part from an older story somebody would like to go a bit deeper into?

Maybe for now I should just catch up with the older posts in this thread - the ones before I got around I'll just have to figure out a way to download this thread so I don't keep the internet occupied all week

I really hope everybody is having fun things which keep them away from reading Lawrence. Take care you all, greetings Sapphire

Sapphire, I owe you a huge apology. I was just so lax about picking another story, but I have been thinking about it this week. I actually hadn't been reading at all and then picked up another short story - small edition at a bargain book store the other night and read it in two days....not Lawrence. However, I am direly missing our wonderful Lawrence and need a dose of his stories once again. I also picked up, at the new discount book store, a book of his short stories. I already own the collection you mentioned titled "England My England and other short stories"...which of those did you think would be good to discuss? I have read all of L's stories at least once, so I would be game. I had thought of doing the title story, but then I thought it was too long. I don't think it's too long now, but maybe you had another in mind. Let me know.

Perhaps we could also start a Lawrence poetry thread. We did once discuss his 'Tortoise' poems, which proved to be quite interesting. We could just post poems and not discuss them in great length, but at least those out there would be exposed to some of Lawrence's fine poetry. I also love the poem "Piano" , Kelbylake. Which is very autobiographical, obviously; given the fact he was so connected to his mother emoticonally. It's a very nostalgic and touching poem. He has many more that strike one right to the soul and I like how direct Lawrence is in his poetry...no beating around the bush.

Let me know what you all think, including you, Virgil. I am now game for a short story by our master story teller.

[Virgil]

I'm definitely game for anything by Lawrence.

[Janine]

I'm definitely game for anything by Lawrence.

Good! I am waiting for Sapphire to suggest which she had in mind from her book. I found a L book of "The Virgin and the Gypsy" and other short stories (paperback) at a new discount store near our mall....only 2.95. Lynne told me about it and I went right away. They only had two left. I also got a nice thick paperback of "Collected Short Stories" by Katherine Mansfield. So I am going through a Lawrence withdrawal right now; will be anxious to get back in the groove of reading him once again. Also, found a taped set of "The Fox" free from my library. I got lucky.

[Sapphire]

Sapphire, I owe you a huge apology.

No you don't - I also lost track of time. I am just happy to hear you've had fun reading other stories Trust me, I did too. Mostly Chesterton and Salinger .

I had thought of doing the title story, but then I thought it was too long. I don't think it's too long now, but maybe you had another in mind. Let me know.

I'm definitely in for a "share of thoughts" on the title story . I already have one question: why did they pick that story as the title for the book? I mean, "You touched me" would also be a great title for a collection of short stories (as: these are stories which will touch your soul). Though maybe a bit too controversial for that time? It is easier to suspect "a dirty book" behind such a title, than behind "England, My England"

Perhaps we could also start a Lawrence poetry thread.

I thought there was one ... I actually felt a bit "I hope the moderators will allow this" when I posted the poem I did - I thought they would send me a message to tell me that the poetry is to be posted in another section I posted it here because it is this thread which got me into Lawrence, and thus made me look for his poetry Hold on, I'll search for the thread I had in mind. It could well be the Tortoise one.

Edit Yes, it is. I'll have to check that one out more thoroughly, some day I am enjoying my holidays now, so if you want to start a poem-thread about his other poems... I am happy to participate!

How about this one,

No! Mr. Lawrence!

No, Mr Lawrence, it's not like that!
I don't mind telling you
I know a thing or two about love,
perhaps more than you do.

And what I know is that you make it
too nice, too beautiful.
It's not like that, you know; you fake it.
It's really rather dull.

I found it online, so I have no clue whether it is from the Tortoise book or not... To me, it shows... Wow. Hold on. This is the Short Story Thread. Lets not get all confused

[Janine]

No you don't - I also lost track of time. I am just happy to hear you've had fun reading other stories Trust me, I did too. Mostly Chesterton and Salinger .
I'm definitely in for a "share of thoughts" on the title story . I already have one question: why did they pick that story as the title for the book? I mean, "You touched me" would also be a great title for a collection of short stories (as: these are stories which will touch your soul). Though maybe a bit too controversial for that time? It is easier to suspect "a dirty book" behind such a title, than behind "England, My England"

I actually have a few minutes here till I go out. I read "The Strange Case of Benjamin Button" which I have to point out is nothing like the plot of the film. They only took the concept of aging backwards from the short story. Story was good but I wasn't crazy over the film. Thomas Hardy short stories are good if you can locate them.

I think Lawrence himself picked "England, My England" to be the title of that particular collection. If anything he would not want to draw attention to anything subversive or dirty because he had already had a few books banned in England. I liked the story "You Touched Me"...not sure if we did that one before...I will check.

I thought there was one ... I actually felt a bit "I hope the moderators will allow this" when I posted the poem I did - I thought they would send me a message to tell me that the poetry is to be posted in another section I posted it here because it is this thread which got me into Lawrence, and thus made me look for his poetry Hold on, I'll search for the thread I had in mind. It could well be the Tortoise one.

Na...they won't say anything about deviating in this thread. I imagine they are just happy to see it active again and us on our way to discussing another short story - reviving the thread. Also, often the poems relate to the short stories. I have posted a few myself. Did Lawrence write that poem above? I don't recall seeing it before...not sure what he is saying here.

Edit Yes, it is.

I'll have to check that one out more thoroughly, some day I am enjoying my holidays now, so if you want to start a poem-thread about his other poems... I am happy to participate!

Yes, I think that would be great. I will get one started real soon. We can then bouce back and forth between his poetry and his prose.[/quote]

How about this one, I found it online, so I have no clue whether it is from the Tortoise book or not... To me, it shows... Wow. Hold on. This is the Short Story Thread. Lets not get all confused

This is the one has me miffed. Where did you find it online. Do you have the link? I will check it out. Sounds more like someone writing about Lawrence and not his writing but I could be wrong.

[Sapphire]

I'm in a bit of a hury, so just a quick response

First
I remember the colour I use on LitNet is a bit difficult for some to read, so I'll go Back to Black

Second

I think Lawrence himself picked "England, My England" to be the title of that particular collection.

I just found something which contradicts your statement. This is from the introduction of the Cambridge University Edition of this bundle (link)

Whoops... that looks big in here
There's quite some information in this (incomplete) introduction. I'm not much for reading on a story before I've formulated my own thoughts on it, so I only scanned this text. But I think the source is reliable...
Janine, I understand your statement was from memory. I'm not trying to proof you wrong here, just trying to figure it all out. I think the publisher choose England, My England because it has a certain patriotic feel to it which might attract buyers in 1920? Not sure, as the introduction keeps talking about publishing it in America, where the patriotic feel of England might not have been that high.

Third
This is the site where I found the poem. I didn't really recognize it as Lawrence either, but if it is it is quite cynical. The site seems to present it like it is written by Lawrence, but in the end everybody can start a site and claim the poetry on it is by somebody famous. That might be me being cynical though

Fourth
As far as locating stories goes (for example by Thomas Hardy), do you all know the site "Project Gutenberg" [link]? You can find quite some authors there, as long as there are no copyright issues. DH Lawrence is well represented And as I just saw, the Curious Case of Benjamin Button is also to be found there.

Have fun reading you all, I can hardly wait to begin analysing - does it show?

[Janine]

Sapphire, thanks for abliging and using all black. It's just that when I quote you I find I have an awful time with the blue and the quotes. This would be much easier if you would stick to the black. I want to answer your post above but I am rushed today and going out to babysit my granddaughter. I hope to answer it later on and definitely I am NOT put off by your research and I was relying on memory of something I thought I read. I will check that source and get back to you on it later...it might be tomorrow...so please be patient. Often the publishers did indeed pick the titles to L's books and collections.

I love Gutenburg and I also am addicted now to Librivox...actually they are in conjunction I believe. I download a lot of audiobooks there...usually read by different volunteers, but I have been enjoying them. I also got several of L's poems being recited by various individuals. I keep everything in a file zipped offline for when I need it.

[Sapphire]

I've checked Librivox out - what an amazing initiative All read by volunteers and all free! Thank you for sharing, Janine.

[Janine]

I've checked Librivox out - what an amazing initiative All read by volunteers and all free! Thank you for sharing, Janine.

You are welcome, Sapphire! Yes, is it not great? I just downloaded "Sons and Lovers" for later on. I have read the book twice; but I find later listening to the audio adds to the experience. I also read "Women in Love" twice and a good friend lend me the audiobook, which I have on my ipod and computer. I listened to it once and would even listen to it again - it's one female narrator who is quite good. If you noticed on Librivox there are several of L's poems on audio. I downloaded those to my computer, too. My L collection is growing. If you look up "Coming Through" starring Kenneth Branagh on YT you will find some excerpts of his poems being recited and acted out. Kelbylake would like the one called "Piano" and get a better understanding of it being his mother playing the piano and his childhood remembrance. I will try to locate the links. I have downloaded some from YT and will find where they are listed so you can all enjoy them, too. I believe they also have "The Trespaser", which is a good early novel, but not as well known as his others. I read it not long ago. It is beautifully written and has a bit of a surprise ending. I think you would like it. It's quite poetic.

[Janine]

Ok, it's been a long time since I announced another Lawrence story to read and I made up my mind long ago, but things held me up; please forgive me everyone.

So, without further ado, let me announce that the next story we will read and discuss is:



A brief synopsis
From enotes online

World War I was a major event in the evolution of Lawrence's aesthetic principles. Like many artists of the time, Lawrence viewed a cycle of apocalypse and rebirth as a necessary corrective to the apparent depravity of the modern world. In his postwar stories he presents intense personal engagements as essential in giving new life to people and societies on the verge of despair. Sensual love stands as an alternative to the mechanisms of modern warfare and technology, and the closed community that Lawrence valued and portrayed in his earlier writings becomes extended and reshaped to incorporate all of Western culture. To dramatize this concern for regeneration, Lawrence often utilized elements of religious ritual and myth. Stories from this period include the title story from England, My England, and Other Stories (1922) and “The Horse-Dealer's Daughter.”


In “England, My England,” Lawrence symbolizes the self-destructive yearning of the fading English gentility through the protagonist Egbert, an effete aristocrat who ends up enlisting in the army in an attempt to reassert his masculinity.

Let's give everyone a chance to start the story or finish it before we begin discussing formally.

[Sapphire]

Hurray! A new Lawrence Short Story

Let's give everyone a chance to start the story or finish it before we begin discussing formally.

Of course! But it is allowed to say something about the introduction part, right? I do like the illustration - I had to think what the gun was for though When I saw the country side the whole war went right out of my head

World War I was a major event in the evolution of Lawrence's aesthetic principles.

Just his aesthetic principles?! I know I shouldn't read this as "just", but it was my first reaction. I mean, it does surprise me that one of the influences of the war was that people got a different idea of "beauty and good taste". Maybe it shouldn't, with dadaism starting in 1916 . Lawrence did not went the way the dadaists went though. Or maybe he did, as the introduction says:

a cycle of apocalypse and rebirth as a necessary corrective

Lets tear it all down and start something new. Everything was pretty much destroyed after the First World War anyway...

often utilized elements of religious ritual and myth

I think this is very apparent in the current story.

The two lines describing the story itself are in my eyes quite a good way to describe it. I think it focusses a bit too much on Egbert though

protagonist Egbert

He's not the only protagonist. There is an "all knowing" narrator, who shares his world views with us and describes the lives of Egbert and Winifred, through the eyes of both. To me it was rather the story of a marriage going wrong, than of the fading English gentility.

EDIT On third read: those two lines are just describing how Lawrence symbolizes something. It is not a description/summary of the story. My bad!

[downing]

YES! I WILL read this! Thank you Janine for letting me know about it

[Janine]

Hurray! A new Lawrence Short Story

Hello, Miss Enthusiastic!

But it is allowed to say something about the introduction part, right? I do like the illustration - I had to think what the gun was for though When I saw the country side the whole war went right out of my head

Sure you can, but don't put much stock in that synopsis. I got it offline from enotes. Who knows if it's accurate (?). I had to say something about the story and I was rather blank, even after reading the story twice. I should have made YOU write the introduction. I am going to recruit you next time.
By the way, that gun is authentic to WWI. It wasn't easy finding it. I did want to make it more subtle, but I haven't yet mastered Adobe Photoshop Elements, so it's the best I could do for now.

Just his aesthetic principles?! I know I shouldn't read this as "just", but it was my first reaction. I mean, it does surprise me that one of the influences of the war was that people got a different idea of "beauty and good taste". Maybe it shouldn't, with dadaism starting in 1916 . Lawrence did not went the way the dadaists went though. Or maybe he did, as the introduction says:
Lets tear it all down and start something new. Everything was pretty much destroyed after the First World War anyway...

Right - don't inject "just' in there. It's a pretty simplified version of what to expect from the story. That is why we are here to disect it and analysis it to find out just what L might be getting at; even at that, should L pay us a ghostly visit, he might inform us we are all wrong! Um....duh, what is dadaism? You brilliant informed college girls!

I think this is very apparent in the current story.

I am lost here - what is apparent?

The two lines describing the story itself are in my eyes quite a good way to describe it. I think it focusses a bit too much on Egbert though.

I don't know if it is or not since I need to refresh my memory and re-read the story. This will be my third or fourth reading, but apparently I need a better memory bank!

He's not the only protagonist. There is an "all knowing" narrator, who shares his world views with us and describes the lives of Egbert and Winifred, through the eyes of both. To me it was rather the story of a marriage going wrong, than of the fading English gentility.

Well, many of Lawrence's stories are about marriages going wrong; that is true. That came from his own experience of his childhood and his own parents so it natually surfaces very often. There is a lot going on here beneath the surface and in the coming weeks we will review the text and it will become more apparent. Plus each person disgussing the story will have a slightly or completely different bend on what is taking place and the ultimate meaning of the ending.

EDIT On third read: those two lines are just describing how Lawrence symbolizes something. It is not a description/summary of the story. My bad!

Yes, that is correct. Also, L didn't write this summary; I found it hard to find anything at all on the story online but then I did come up with a PDF file with some analysis. I have not yet read it. I can post the thread to it, if anyone is interested. Not sure how accurate that will be either. Someone wrote it other than L. Only L would know the true meanings behind his stories. All the rest is only conjecture but that's ok. That is what discussions are all about. Everyone sees things in a different light/way.

Take time to read the story this week and then I will post sections of it to discuss; it's helpful if we don't jump ahead because often telling endings and such spoil the story for those who haven't yet read it. Sapphire, so happy to have you onboard!

[Janine]

YES! I WILL read this! Thank you Janine for letting me know about it

Another young enthusiatic. Fantastic! I am soooo happy to have you onboard for this discussion. Thanks, downing.

Is your avy the wire walker from France? I just saw a film on him walking between the Twin Towers and other locations. He was amazing, although I think a bit crazy!