The Earth is FIXED in Space

[Hurricane]

Babbalaja,

Welcome aboard Copernican Airways Flight 007. From Los Angeles to Miami. Here is some flight data.

1. We will be taking off in 10 minutes.

2. The Earth below us will be rotating (as usual) from West to East. At a speed close to 900 miles an hour.

3. Thus, Miami will actually be travelling at 900 mph and headed AWAY from us at the time we get into the air pointed at it. Our speed will be around half of this rotation speed. At best. Miami itself will be rotated with the rest of the Earth (of course !!) but you will eventually see your destination the next day appear beneath us coming from behind and we will arrive there in Miami when that city finally appears under us.

4. Those who are flying here to Los Angeles from Miami will however arrive here in less than 3 hours from now. Because they have the advantage of the Earth rotating towards their plane at over 900 miles per hour during their flight. So they finish their flight today and you finish yours tomorrow.

5. We apologise for this inconvenience but sleeping bags have been provided.

Enjoy your flight !!!

Let's try another one: Hurricane and Papa Hurricane are in the backyard playing catch. Unfortunately, they run through an endless supply of baseballs, because every time Papa Hurricane throws one, it zooms by at 900 mph. I'm even worse off, since mine never reach him. This is applying the same logic you used to describe flight.
The atmosphere is effectively part of earth, sort of like the skin on an apple, and so rotates with the earth. Right now, sitting at my desk, I am moving at 900 mph, but I don't feel it because so is everything else. When I go for a jog, I am technically running at 908 mph, but only 8 mph can be noticed on earth because everything is also moving at 900 mph.
Let's demonstrate the catch experiment again: My father and I are currently playing catch in the cargo bay of a C-17 aircraft flying at 20,000 feet and 350 knots. When I throw a baseball, relative to the earth, it's moving at 350 kts + whatever velocity I threw it at, say for a total velocity of 400 kts. However, my Dad can still catch it since relative to the aircraft, it's only going 50 kts. Relative to the universe, the baseball is moving at 1300+ kts. Make sense?

[Musicology]

Hurricane,

Thank you for your scenario. It is very attractive. And how do you know you are running at 908 miles an hour. (900 mph plus 8 mph). ? Did you read it in a book ? Did you see it on TV ? Did you measure it yourself ? Or did somebody else ?

When oceanographers have measured the speed of the sea they found it to be (usually) a few miles per hour. When physicists have studied the atmosphere they find clouds to be travelling at a few miles per hour. Depending on the local wind speed etc. And when planes fly between different cities (to and from the same two cities) they take around the same time to arrive in both cases. There is no atmosphere moving around 1,000 mph against them in either case. Nor do we see any evidence of an atmosphere moving 1,000 mph anywhere.

So, if you can show us this legendary atmosphere moving, or having observable and measurable effects I'll believe in it, the same as you. Having examined the findings of science on this point I've not found any such measurements. In fact, the fastest ever recorded phenomenon in the atmosphere as far as movements of the Earth's atmosphere are concerned were all localised storms. In Australia a wind gust reached 350 mph. That's a record. But you believe the entire atmosphere of the Earth is moving many times this speed all the time. Wow !

I'm sure you must be hiding these measurements from us. Will you kindly share them with us ?

That would definitely settle the issue.

Thanks

Let's try another one: Hurricane and Papa Hurricane are in the backyard playing catch. Unfortunately, they run through an endless supply of baseballs, because every time Papa Hurricane throws one, it zooms by at 900 mph. I'm even worse off, since mine never reach him. This is applying the same logic you used to describe flight.
The atmosphere is effectively part of earth, sort of like the skin on an apple, and so rotates with the earth. Right now, sitting at my desk, I am moving at 900 mph, but I don't feel it because so is everything else. When I go for a jog, I am technically running at 908 mph, but only 8 mph can be noticed on earth because everything is also moving at 900 mph.
Let's demonstrate the catch experiment again: My father and I are currently playing catch in the cargo bay of a C-17 aircraft flying at 20,000 feet and 350 knots. When I throw a baseball, relative to the earth, it's moving at 350 kts + whatever velocity I threw it at, say for a total velocity of 400 kts. However, my Dad can still catch it since relative to the aircraft, it's only going 50 kts. Relative to the universe, the baseball is moving at 1300+ kts. Make sense?

[MarkBastable]

Ah, there you are.

Let's try that again....

Originally Posted by Musicology
And still the clock is ticking. When do we finally get a straight Yes or No to the two questions you have promised to answer ? Here they are for the third time -

Q1. Does your model suggest the land of America is rotating from West to East around 900 miles an hour during the 5 hours or so a plane takes to cross from Miami to Los Angeles and a plane headed in the opposite direction at the same speed from Los Angeles to Miami ? (A total change of around 4,500 miles). Give or take for head winds etc. Please give a simple Yes or No please ?

and -

Q2. Do you accept that the actual distance between Miami (Florida) and Los Angeles (California) is around 2348 miles (3778 kilometres) ? Yes or No please ?

And here are mine.

Q1. Do you accept that the earth is approximately spherical?

Q2. Do you accept that the stars - the movement of which you cite in your opening post - are many light years away?


I'll answer yes or no to yours, if you will then answer yes or no to mine - without any intervening discussion, prevarication, qualification or general LOLing all over the shop.

[Musicology]

Q1 - Yes, I accept the Earth is approximately spherical
Q2 - As to whether the stars are many light years away or only a few is of secondary importance to the fact they create effects which we can observe and even measure from here on Earth.

Those are my answers.

May we finally have yours ?

[Babbalanja]

Unwillingness to address the moon's phases duly noted.

If the Earth is fixed, the moon and the Sun both orbit the Earth. Thus, this issue is crucial to your theory of a fixed Earth. The moon appears to orbit the Earth monthly while the Sun appears to orbit Earth daily. But if this were true, we would expect the moon to go through its phases nightly. Why doesn't it?

It's called disconfirming evidence. You won't deal with it.

Regards,

Istvan

[Musicology]

You may duly note that I've already replied to you. Several times. And you may duly note that I've suggested you open a thread on it. Since this particular thread is dealing with 'The Earth is Fixed in Space'.

Now, I realise you may have difficulty telling the difference between the Earth and the Moon but they are different bodies.

Would you kindly note this and stay on the subject of this thread ?

Yours duly noted

Unwillingness to address the moon's phases duly noted.

If the Earth is fixed, the moon and the Sun both orbit the Earth. Thus, this issue is crucial to your theory of a fixed Earth. The moon appears to orbit the Earth monthly while the Sun appears to orbit Earth daily. But if this were true, we would expect the moon to go through its phases nightly. Why doesn't it?

It's called disconfirming evidence. You won't deal with it.

Regards,

Istvan

[PeterL]

I am shocked that this silliness is still going. I ran into the same thing elsewhere, and it quickly became clear that the thread started was joking. He didn't even know what a frame of reference was, and then concept of the atmosphere and the oceans being part of the Earth were way beyond him.

Has Musicology demonstrated that the Coriolis Effect doesn't have anything to do with a rotating frame of reference?

[Babbalanja]

You may duly note that I've already replied to you. Several times. And you may duly note that I've suggested you open a thread on it. Since this particular thread is dealing with 'The Earth is Fixed in Space'.

Now, I realise you may have difficulty telling the difference between the Earth and the Moon but they are different bodies.

Would you kindly note this and stay on the subject of this thread ?

It is the subject of this thread. If both the moon and the Sun orbit a fixed Earth, why doesn't the moon go through all of its phases nightly?

Answer: the Earth is not fixed. End of discussion.

Your continued evasion of this disconfirming evidence is once again noted.

Regards,

Istvan

[Musicology]

Thank you for your repeated invitation to leave the solid ground of what this thread is so clearly about. Whose title can hardly be more clear. I remain fixed on the main subject of this thread. An essential foundation for resolving various other issues that deal with the Moon, the Sun, the stars and other phenomena. 'The Earth is Fixed in Space'. If you can actually deal with this subject as it stands that's fine.

I understand you cannot help floating up in to space to divert us from the subject. I even sympathise with your need to find some actual, verifiable evidence that will support your dogma. But none exists except in your textbooks and there are already lots of examples of here, right here on Earth, where your dogmas are contradicted by the actual, measured, agreed, findings of science. You have not addressed any of these and are unable to provide evidence to the contrary. Such is the record.


Regards

It is the subject of this thread. If both the moon and the Sun orbit a fixed Earth, why doesn't the moon go through all of its phases nightly?

Answer: the Earth is not fixed. End of discussion.

Your continued evasion of this disconfirming evidence is once again noted.

Regards,

Istvan

[Babbalanja]

Your repeated evasion of the problem of observations of the moon's phases from a fixed Earth is once again, and with great amusement, noted.

Regards,

Istvan

[Musicology]

So be it. But if you cannot even resolve the problems of you dogma which you find here on Earth with the measured and agreed facts of this Earth why trust you with your ideas of the Moon, the Sun and the stars ?

And still my two questions remain unanswered on this thread.

Q1. Does your model suggest the land of America is rotating from West to East around 900 miles an hour during the 5 hours or so a plane takes to cross from Miami to Los Angeles and during which a plane headed in the opposite direction at the same speed travels on the same course and at the same speed (allowing for headwinds etc) from Los Angeles to Miami ? (A total change by 'rotation' in that time (so we are told) of around 4,500 miles. Please give a simple Yes or No please ?

and -

Q2. Do you accept the distance between Miami (Florida) and Los Angeles (California) is around 2348 miles (3778 kilometres) ? Yes or No please ?

Anyway, thanks for the 'conversation'.

Your repeated evasion of the problem of observations of the moon's phases from a fixed Earth is once again, and with great amusement, noted.

Regards,

Istvan

Still no answer to the two questions repeatedly posed on the subject of this thread to Mark Bastable.

I suppose this ends my contribution here. Thanks Mark !

Regards

[Babbalanja]

'The Earth is Fixed in Space'. If you can actually deal with this subject as it stands that's fine.

Right back atcha.

If The Earth is Fixed in Space, then the moon orbits the Earth every month and Sun orbits the Earth every day.

From this Fixed Earth, we would expect to observe the moon going through its phases nightly.

Do we, in fact, observe this?

If not, why not?

Doesn't this constitute disconfirming evidence against the theory that The Earth is Fixed in Space?

If not, why not?

Regards,

Istvan

[Musicology]

Babbalanja,

If you can provide here some verifiable data on the subject of Earth 'rotation' (from any science at all, and available here in measured, verifiable data) we can move forward. To date its been nothing but continual evasion of the actual, measured, verifiable facts of science and of the subject of this thread. And you have nothing to answer in respect of the problems these facts of science (already presented here) cause you.

That's the true context of this thread. And it shows. I will decline your invitation to go round and round in circles.

Thanks

Right back atcha.

If The Earth is Fixed in Space, then the moon orbits the Earth every month and Sun orbits the Earth every day.

From this Fixed Earth, we would expect to observe the moon going through its phases nightly.

Do we, in fact, observe this?

If not, why not?

Doesn't this constitute disconfirming evidence against the theory that The Earth is Fixed in Space?

If not, why not?

Regards,

Istvan

[BienvenuJDC]

Musicology,

I will concede to your basic premise. I have thought about it, that the earth only moves in reference to the other bodies...and the other bodies only move in reference to other perspectives. However, there is much that I disagree with you on, but I will allow you the first inch.

[The Atheist]

No more theories. Here are some more facts. Here is a photograph of the sky and stars above the North Pole. Taken with an 8 hour 'time lapse' camera.

Yes. we've seen the pretty pictures, and since the first, and most obvious refutation of your point is that if you're right, some of those stars are travelling at speeds exponentially faster than light, you are merely trumpeting one mistake as evidence while ignoring every single question put to you.

Why isn't he making these claims on a board for astronomers or physicists, pray tell?

I can answer that.

Every scientific, rational and astronomy board has rules which would disallow this kind of behaviour.

I suppose this ends my contribution here. Thanks Mark !

Regards

I'm pleased to see from your very next post that you were only joking.