This, however, is pure gold.Originally Posted by Musicology
This, however, is pure gold.
Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."
Anon
Actually, while some may use that claim, I do not. I affirm that they WERE on the ark. However, this is not the place for this discussion.
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
what a pity you don't live up to your own standards. You might like that: Matth. 7, 4-5
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.
To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits
in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.”
Helen Keller
Hello Musicology,
Long time no here!
It’s your old backup sparring partner from the great Mozart and Coronado campaigns.
Once again, my hat is off to you. You’ve really stirred up the pot with this one.
About the only thing I can offer at the moment regarding the cosmos is an old saying my mother would always tell me each morning at breakfast:
“Gilliatt, no matter where you stand, you will always be the center of your universe”
cue Sammy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-3SC...eature=related
Gilliatt
Meanwhile back here in the real world, the satellite Cryosat 2 is about to be launched. Designed to measure changes to the polar ice caps, it will have a low polar orbit.
Unfortunately it relies on the earth's revolution to scan a different piece of ice cap on each orbit. What a mistake a to make a.
No, it doesn't rely on the Earth's rotation. It depends on the simple fact that every body in the atmosphere is attracted to return to the Earth and will do so after gravity and other forces have acted upon it.
What we want are actual facts to support the 'rotation of the Earth'. And all we have are dogmas.
We want actual facts that the ocean is moving 1,000 mph at the equator. But the actual facts say the opposite.
We want actual facts the atmosphere is moving at around 1,000 mph at the equator. But the actual facts say the opposite.
Are you interested in actual facts ?
Hi there Gilliat Gurgle,
We've got a generation of corporatised students here who believe something because everyone else believes it. Ask them for some actual evidence (which is supposed to be the issue) and they have nothing but their textbook dogmas.
I mean, how funny does it get. Let's do actual measurements, actual tests. But they go back to the dogmas.
Great fun, yes ? You dear mother was right. And so was everybody else till the occultist 'new science' took over. Since which time they never question the TV.
Regards
If the Earth is fixed in space we would be able to fly planes of the same flight speed from Miami to Los Angeles in around the same total time as Los Angeles to Miami (allowing for headwinds etc). And we do !
Fixed Earth 1
Science Fiction 0
If the Earth is fixed in space we would find the ocean moving slowly at the equators at the rate of only a few miles an hour in its currents. Not at 1,000 mph. And we do !
Fixed Earth 2
Science Fiction 0
If the Earth is fixed in space a 1,000 mile long cloud would be crossed by a plane travelling at 500 mph in exactly 2 hours. And we do. Because the atmosphere is not rotating at near 1,000 mph.
Fixed Earth 3
Science Fiction 0
LOL, it's embarrasing.
Last edited by Niamh; 04-08-2010 at 06:53 AM.
Oh, you're right. Absolutely right.
LOL, it's embarrasing.
"I should only believe in a God that would know how to dance. And when I saw my devil, I found him serious, thorough, profound, solemn: he was the spirit of gravity- through him all things fall. Not by wrath, but by laughter, do we slay. Come, let us slay the spirit of gravity!" - Nietzsche
Well Lokasenna,
If Science, real science, proves its teachings by impartial and fair measurements and by actual tests it's striking how one and only one side of this discussion finds the support of reality. Maybe you can find a single test where the two rival versions can be compared that will prove the opposite in respect of -
1. The Alleged Rotation of the Earth
2. The Alleged Rotation of the Earth's Atmosphere
3. The Alleged Revolving of the Earth around the Sun
Textbooks 0
Reality 389
You ARE interested in reality, aren't you ?
Now, reality is tricky...
Taking your theory, the moon would either have three phases a night with an orbit of 28 days and not be visible for about 14 days of the month, or, with an orbit of 24 hours, would only have one phase ever.
Unless the earth turns round and the sun stays in a fixed position in relation to the moon which orbits around the earth, all phases are mathematically impossible.
Other things you can deny, but not what is plainly in the sky at night for everyone to see.
Medieval dogma 365
geocentric nonsense 0.
One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.
"Je crains [...] que l'âme ne se vide à ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scène VII)
Kiki is playing his tricks again.
He tells us 'reality is tricky'. Then he tells us (and I quote) -
'Other things you can deny, but not what is PLAINLY in the sky at night for everyone to behold'.
This is how the deceivers operate. They say one thing and then flatly contradict themselves. Either this issue is settled by measurements and observations or it is not. He says it is.
OK, let's return to measurements and actual observations already discussed. Here they are. A few of them. Any comments Kiki ?
1. If the Earth is fixed in space we would be able to fly planes of the same flight speed from Miami to Los Angeles in around the same total time as one flying from Los Angeles to Miami (allowing for headwinds etc). And we do ! Any comment ?
Fixed Earth 1
Science Fiction 0
2. If the Earth is fixed in space we would find the ocean moving slowly at the equators at the rate of only a few miles an hour in its currents. Not at 1,000 mph. And we do ! Any comment ?
Fixed Earth 2
Science Fiction 0
3. If the Earth is fixed in space a 1,000 mile long cloud would be crossed by a plane travelling at 500 mph in exactly 2 hours. And we do. Because the atmosphere is clearly not rotating at near 1,000 mph. Any comment ?
Fixed Earth 3
Science Fiction 0
So, Kiki, since this thread is on the 'Fixed Earth' you will agree the measurements and the observations in all of the above cases are plain and indisputable, won't you ? Tell us you agree with them and we can move on to discuss what we see in the night sky.
Can't get fairer than that, can I ?
You really are interested in the subject of this thread, aren't you ?
Last edited by Musicology; 04-08-2010 at 07:29 AM.
This is not about the speed of the earth turning, this is about the concept alone.
I said, and I repeat: an earth fixed in space is IMPOSSIBLE because it does not account for the phases of the moon which are not 3 a night, or one ever, but a cycle of 28 days as everyone knows and can see. So you too.
Unless the moon has a light bulb in it and can actually turn herself off and on, even partly, at will, it is IMPOSSIBLE.
Denying reality are we, Musicology?
Embarrassing isn't it?
Nothing in the hands, nothing in the sleeves, only a brain in the head.
medieval dogma: 365 * 2 = 730
geocentric nonsense: 0 * 0 = still 0
One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.
"Je crains [...] que l'âme ne se vide à ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scène VII)
Kiki,
Unless/until you accept the measured, verified, indisputable facts of the Earth already given you are like a child who cannot accept ABC. Why don't you accept the facts already given ? Then we can move on to DEF and the rest of the alphabet.
Because planes travelling at the same speed between two cities DO arrive at around the same time. Allowing for headwinds etc. That is plain fact. Because a cloud really is crossed by a plane travelling at a known constant speed exactly on time as predicted. And because the ocean currents at the Equator have already been measured and published many times. They are published facts. All of these are welll established, measured, verifiable FACTS of our Earth. They require no theories. They are plain, indisputable facts.
Tell us you accept all of them and we can move on. But if you do not accept these measured, published, indisputable facts you are not only ignorant but willingly ignorant. Show us they are wrong. You cannot. And therefore you have nothing left than your dogma. Yours is a 'science' which simply ignores plain, measured, verifiable facts. And you are proving this to us with every post you make.
This is not about the speed of the earth turning, this is about the concept alone.
I said, and I repeat: an earth fixed in space is IMPOSSIBLE because it does not account for the phases of the moon which are not 3 a night, or one ever, but a cycle of 28 days as everyone knows and can see. So you too.
Unless the moon has a light bulb in it and can actually turn herself off and on, even partly, at will, it is IMPOSSIBLE.
Denying reality are we, Musicology?
Embarrassing isn't it?
Nothing in the hands, nothing in the sleeves, only a brain in the head.
medieval dogma: 365 * 2 = 730
geocentric nonsense: 0 * 0 = still 0
Last edited by Musicology; 04-08-2010 at 08:07 AM.
haha,
the ABC? You are not even come to A, my friend, let alone to B and C or even D.
There is one thing you cannot accept, and that is that the geocentric model cannot possibly account for the thing in the sky which we see every single night.
The rest you can deny, by all means, only, that one simple thing, there, staring at you through the night when you look at it is reminding you of the FACT that our earth turns around, because otherwise, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have the course it has and which you can observe.
I challenge you:
draw it on a paper and see how impossible it is. It cannot be or the speed of both the sun and moon would have to be different every single hour of every single day which is impossible as neither the planets, nor the sun, nor the moons, no the stars have gear-sticks or gaz-pedals, nor breaks.
Face it and come to terms with it.
Medieval dogma: still 730
geocentric nonsense: still big f/phat 0
One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.
"Je crains [...] que l'âme ne se vide à ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scène VII)
No problem.
The dogma says that a plane from Miami to Los Angeles will arrive hours earlier than a plane of the same speed from Los Angeles to Miami. Due to the 'rotation of Earth' below it, west to east. But that isn't what happens. Is it ? And that's a fact. They both take around the same time (with allowance for head winds etc).
The dogma says the ocean is rotating at a speed of 1,000 mph at the Equator. But the actual, verifiable fact is the ocean at the Equator is moving at walking speed. Confirmed by the documented results of oceanographic surveys by the dozen.
The dogma says a long cloud at the Equator is revolving west to east around a revolving Earth at a speed of about 1,000 mph. But a plane flying at 500 mph east to west takes 2 hours to pass through such a cloud. This too is a demonstratable, verfiable fact.
And since science, real science, is proved by demonstratable/verifiable facts (and not by dogmas which ignore them) these facts remain, and will forever remain testimony to what is real and what is dogma.
I am sorry you cannot accept these published findings. They are there for anyone to see. You were repeatedly invited to accept them as plain and documented facts. But you prefer your dogmas, your theories, and not realities. So we reach the limits of any conversation on this issue.
Regards
Last edited by Musicology; 04-08-2010 at 09:00 AM.
And?
It is not because that seems strange to you, that it is not possible.
What is plainly there, in the sky, all year and every day, is clearly reality, or is that not the case? It is true, yet it is not? That is not a good thing to start with, is it. The moon has not three different phases that are the same every night, nor has it one phase all year round. It has different phases through the month, never disappears. So, the sun must be in another place in relation to it to have its light refected differently As the eart does no move, it must be the sun or moon, but they both havean orbit round the earth ad that makes it IMPOSSIBLE. So are eclipses if both sun and moon were orbitting round the earth. Yet, they are clearly there. How then?
If that is impossible, then what? Someone must be wrong, and it is not reality in the (night) sky.
All this focus on silly detail is not going to get you out of the discussion as your model is totally and utterly mathematically impossible.
No ifs and buts, just plainly, utterly, mathematically impossible.
Unless you can come up with an explanation of course, but I would say that is impossible too as mathematics are pretty clear.
medieval dogma: still 730
geocentric nonsense: still big f/phat horribly frightening 0
One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.
"Je crains [...] que l'âme ne se vide à ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scène VII)
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