The Earth is FIXED in Space

[MarkBastable]

at 500 mph.

Your 'inertial frame of reference' is sheer nonsense. Humbug and invention. Since there are only two references, the plane and the cloud.

Which bring us neatly back to the bees on the train - only two references: the bee with the banner, and the bee going the other way. Please apply your theory of planes and clouds, as you said you would. I can see the logic of your model - is it universal? Does it apply to the problem I described?

You did promise. And, whatever else I may think of you, I've hitherto assumed you are an honourable man.

[JuniperWoolf]

This thread is a thing of beauty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44DlSj6bnn4

Hahahahaha!!! That's the song that was stuck in my head all day after I read this thread yesterday!

[OrphanPip]

It is obvious a plane entering a 1,000 mile long cloud will pass through that cloud in less than 1 hour if that cloud is itself travelling at 1,000 mph in the opposite direction and if that plane is travelling at 500 mph.

Your 'inertial frame of reference' is sheer nonsense. Humbug and invention. Since there are only two references, the plane and the cloud.

Oh, my goodness !!!!

My God, please feel free to get on a train and walk down the aisle and come back and tell me inertial frames of reference are sheer nonsense.

Orphan Pip says,

It would take the plane (travelling at 500 miles per hour) 1.81 hours to go through a 1000 mile cloud which is travelling 1,000 mph in the opposite direction.

I didn't say that, note that you didn't say anything about the speed of the cloud. You keep making the false assumption that the cloud's relative movement is due to the rotation of the Earth, when it is in fact due to air movement. Note that I did the calculation with the cloud moving at 50mph and you're insane, please seek medical attention.

[The Atheist]

Orphan Pip says,...

Hello!

Since you seem to want to persist with this nonsense, can I direct you to two questions you have avoided so far.

For the sake of clarity, I will put them up again for you:

1 Why do cyclonic systems spin in opposite directions in different hemispheres if the earth isn't spinning on its axis.

2 How can the stars possibly travel fast enough to appear to orbit us?

This thread is a thing of beauty.

It certainly is; I hope it stands forever as a metaphor for single-mindedness.

[kiki1982]

@The Atheist:

Not to forget my phases

[MarkBastable]

Whoa - Kiki, Atheist. Just a planet-spinnin' minute there, Muskie.

You can't simply saunter in at the top of the thread trying to direct his attention to your questions. Goddammit, you've got to put in the long hours of dogged persistence. You've got to pay your dues, bub. Now, I don't say that I'm any closer to success than I was this time yesterday - but at least I have a promise from M that he'll answer my question, and I yet sustain hope that he'll stick to his word.

So the last thing I need, frankly, is you two swanning around the joint with your lunar phases and your counterclockwise hurricanes distracting M from the much more comprehensible issue of my bees on a train. I mean - whatcha trying to do - confuse the guy?

Now get to the back of the line and wait your turn. My number is about to be called - my bees and I are ready to be ushered into the Presence of Truth.

[prendrelemick]

How can you rely on bees? They're communists! Thats worse than Alchemy.


and Athiest your calculations are flawed because they rely on heathen math (pi= 3.14...etc)

[Katy North]

*Facepalm*

We're STILL talking about this?

[kiki1982]

Of course! As long as our ignorant denying friend keeps going, we keep going (until he gives up or sees the light).

I'm not sure whether he is catually going to understand the argument of the bees though.

[MarkBastable]

I'm not sure whether he is catually going to understand the argument of the bees though.

I'm sure he will. Anyway - it's me that has to understand it, not him. I'm hoping he'll explain it to me.

[Musicology]

The solution is rather simple.

Take a large cloud of known size. Let us say, one of 100 miles length or so. Fly a plane through its length in the opposite direction to that of the supposed 'rotation of Earth', and at a plane speed which is already known and agreed. And let us note the exact time when that plane first appears from the opposite side of that cloud.

If the plane appears from the far end of that cloud at around the time suggested by a fixed and stable Earth/atmosphere then it, the fixed earth and atmosphere viewpoint obviously wins the argument. But if the plane emerges from such a cloud far faster the rotating Earth theory wins the argument.

Both cannot be true. Since the cloud is either moving (as you claim) with the 'Earth's rotation' (i.e. at a speed of between 900 and 1,000 mph) or it is not.

A simple challenge !

Or, take an even more simple test. Choose two cities on an atlas, separated from each other by thousands of miles. Fly a plane between them in a straight line and at a fixed and known speed. Does the plane finish that flight in a time suggested by

a) Earth Rotation Theory ?

OR

b) The Fixed Earth Theory ?


Let's see whether Mr Copernicus and your 'rotating Earth' theory passes such a simple test. Choose any two cities on the entire atlas of the world. Separated by several thousands of miles.

[MarkBastable]

Or, take an even more simple test. Choose two cities on an atlas, separated from each other by thousands of miles. Fly a plane between them in a straight line and at a fixed and known speed. Does the plane finish that flight in a time suggested by Earth rotation or by the fixed Earth theory ?

Let's see if Mr Copernicus and your rotating Earth theory passes the test.

Actually, he's got a point here. Two glasses of Bordeaux and a Mandrax, and everything is the same distance away.

[Musicology]

OK Mark,

Choose two cities of the world separated by several thousands of miles. Any two. You choose them. And let's test both theories. Still feeling confident 'the Earth is rotating at between 900 and 1,000 mph' ?

Actually, he's got a point here. Two glasses of Bordeaux and a Mandrax, and everything is the same distance away.

OK Kiki, why not accept the same test ?

Choose any two cities in the entire world separated by several thousands of miles.

Let's see if a plane flying at an agreed constant speed travels between them in the time predicted by fixed Earth theory or your mediaeval dogmas ? Any response ?

Of course! As long as our ignorant denying friend keeps going, we keep going (until he gives up or sees the light).

I'm not sure whether he is catually going to understand the argument of the bees though.

We are still talking about it because posters like you have nothing to say about it. Maybe you like posting about nothing ?

*Facepalm*

We're STILL talking about this?

[OrphanPip]

You don't seem to understand that the plane is being moved with the Earth's rotation as well, and that the cloud's movement is due to air currents not to the Earth's rotation. Your trolling isn't very interesting if you don't even bother to address the challenges.

BTW space shuttles and rockets do take off in the direction of the rotations of the Earth, and as near to the equator as possible (Florida for the USA, Kazhakstan for the Russians) because it make escape velocity easier to reach there.

[Musicology]

Orphan Pip,

Let us assume we both need to understand reality. The reality is as follows -

1. The 'air currents' we find in the atmosphere are not 900 to 1,000 mph. Are they ? And, if there are strong air currents let us account for them when we time the flight in question.

2. You say 'the plane is being moved with the Earth's Rotation as well'. Really ? Why ? What proof do you have of this ? None at all. Please provide some. You DO have evidence of this, don't you ?

3. Since you are posting complete nonsense (out of ignorance rather than trolling) please choose any two cities of the entire world, separated from each other by several thousands of miles. The choice is entirely yours from an atlas and is those of your colleagues. Let us see if a plane flying at constant speed from one to the other city completes the arrival of a flight between them at the time suggested by the fixed Earth or by your dogma that the Earth is revolving at between 900 to 1,000 mph.

Fancy the challenge ?

Mediaeval Copernicus Dogma 0
Fixed Earth Reality 1

You don't seem to understand that the plane is being moved with the Earth's rotation as well, and that the cloud's movement is due to air currents not to the Earth's rotation. Your trolling isn't very interesting if you don't even bother to address the challenges.

BTW space shuttles and rockets do take off in the direction of the rotations of the Earth, and as near to the equator as possible (Florida for the USA, Kazhakstan for the Russians) because it make escape velocity easier to reach there.