School Dress Codes? Uniforms?

[papayahed]

Oh my, this is starting to remind me of my place of work. We have a very specific dress code for our employees and for any contractors working onsite. One of the regulations is that anyone working in the unit must be clean shaven. Contractors are always given a copy of our regulations before they show up. It's amazing the guys that still show up with full beards and then whine and try to talk their way out of it when I hand them a cheap razor. The rules aren't going to change either you choose to follow or you don't work at the site. The point is that I have enough problem with the few contractors and employees that I have in comparison to the hundreds of whiney, angsty kids trying to push boundries in any one school. It's a wonder schools haven't gone to uniforms a lot sooner.

[Virgil]

We have long done away with any formal dress code at my work, and most people don't abuse it. Supposedly you are to dress business casual, but some people do look shabby.

[MarkBastable]

We have a very specific dress code for our employees and for any contractors working onsite. One of the regulations is that anyone working in the unit must be clean shaven.

Just as a matter of interest, does the work involve anything that can only be properly done without facial hair?

[papayahed]

Just as a matter of interest, does the work involve anything that can only be properly done without facial hair?

Nooo, the work has nothing to do with facial hair. The location of the work is the issue, there are times when respirators need to be worn.

[Paulclem]

Nooo, the work has nothing to do with facial hair. The location of the work is the issue, there are times when respirators need to be worn.

The military has a no-facefungus policy for the same reason - bio chemical attack.

I have a facefungus policy imposed upon me by my wife. She says it covers the fact that I have no chin.

For the anti-uniform posters I think you can see with Virgil and Papyahead's posts that dress codes are normal whether informal or strictly enforced, and certainly for interviews.

If nothing else - though there plenty of pro uniform argments - it conveys this truth. None of us who are working can truly wear what we want.

Kids need to know this as well - and they need to learn how to just get on with it. There's usually no debate, and most adults get on with it because it's for the money. I need money - give me the orange dungarees with the yellow wellingtons and I'll do your job. No problem.

[MarkBastable]

For the anti-uniform posters I think you can see with Virgil and Papyahead's posts that dress codes are normal whether informal or strictly enforced, and certainly for interviews.

If nothing else - though there plenty of pro uniform argments - it conveys this truth. None of us who are working can truly wear what we want.

That's not true. And even if it were true, if you call conventions in clothing 'uniform', then you need another word for the kind of identical and prescribed garb that we're talking about here. And lastly, the difference is that if you impose a uniform in order to do a job, the person on whom you are imposing it has the option of telling you to shove your job right up your arse - but a school-child doesn't have that option.

[OrphanPip]

I have a prescribed dress code at work too. I wear navy blue scrubs with a white under shirt every single day. It's even less stimulating than my secondary school uniform haha.

Mark is right though, the difference is that I could always choose to quit my job. I still don't feel strongly for or against uniforms.

Edit: I secretly love my scrubs though, they make me look so sexy and ''medical''.

[1n50mn14]

I can wear whatever the hell I want at work, and it's a professional environment, requiring me to deal with property (horses) worth quite literally millions of dollars. I guess I'll count myself lucky, and not abuse the privilege- I always wear CLEAN blue jeans, clean polo shirts with the barn logo, and neatly laced boots, with my hair up under a hat. My piercings and tattoos aren't a problem, luckily.

I disagree with the school uniform policy- kids know what kids belong to what clique, regardless of clothing. Kids know which kids are less privileged, or are nerdy... regardless of what they wear. I don't see how it is disrespectful to not wear a uniform to school. Lots of teachers don't act professionally or merit the respect that is automatically afforded to them, without them earning it... I really fail to see how uniforms convey respect in any way. We had a simple policy at my school, involving how much skin was shown, what was considered 'disrespectful' in terms of imagery on clothing, and those stupid gangsta' pants that show off a boys ***... and our high school was rated third in Canada for achievement by MacLeans magazine...

*I AM SO INCOHERENT RIGHT NOW! Sorry, guys!*

[Paulclem]

That's not true. And even if it were true, if you call conventions in clothing 'uniform', then you need another word for the kind of identical and prescribed garb that we're talking about here. And lastly, the difference is that if you impose a uniform in order to do a job, the person on whom you are imposing it has the option of telling you to shove your job right up your arse - but a school-child doesn't have that option.

Ok - lots of people can't wear what they want, and lots of people can't tell their bosses to shove their jobs, just like Papayahead's contractors probably can't afford to lose the contract.

You're right - clothing conventions and uniforms are different, but the one is a good training for the other that would be neglected if options to kids were given.

I don't see how it is disrespectful to not wear a uniform to school.
BeccaT

I don't think its just about respect, and I think you're right about kids being able to single out the poor kids, whatever they wear - it's just harder. I'm from a poor family and it could have been harder than it was for me without the uniform.

They began non-uniform days after I left school when my younger siblings were still there. They still talk about how humiliated they felt. My brother is 37 and my sister is 41. Was this anyone else's experience?

[kiki1982]

For the anti-uniform posters I think you can see with Virgil and Papyahead's posts that dress codes are normal whether informal or strictly enforced, and certainly for interviews.

If nothing else - though there plenty of pro uniform argments - it conveys this truth. None of us who are working can truly wear what we want.

Kids need to know this as well - and they need to learn how to just get on with it. There's usually no debate, and most adults get on with it because it's for the money. I need money - give me the orange dungarees with the yellow wellingtons and I'll do your job. No problem.

I don't agree with that conclusion, sorry...

What Papayahead addresses, is safety. If your mask does not fit properly because of your beard and you die, it's the company's fault and the insurrace will not pay up because the employee did not comply with the rules. So, the ban on beards and facial hair serves a clear purpose. Of course, people are still going to whine, but that is because they do not understand it is for their own good. Like truck drivers cannot wear rings (not even wedding rings). Why, because, if their ring gets stuck behind something, they rip their finger off (seen myself).

School uniforms though, as opposed to mere dress codes, do not have a clear purpose and that is why I am against them. If they were to serve a clear purpose (like they do for the police or medical staff), I wouldn't have a problem with them, but they do not. They are not healthier, they do not exclude the student from danger, they do not give auhority, a student should not be recognised from afar.

As opposed to dress codes, I said, because pupils should learn not to walk about in track suits. They should learn to dress properly in a professional environment. That said, there is no need to actually stuff them all into the same thing every single day.

Not to mention that some shops actually charge ridiculous prices for a jumper with a mesely logo on it. So, even for the parents in most cases, it would be better to have none of that.

[MarkBastable]

You're right - clothing conventions and uniforms are different, but the one is a good training for the other that would be neglected if options to kids were given.

On the other hand, one might just as easily say that it'll turn kids against that kind of high-handed imposition for life. It did with me. And I know many others who, even in their fifties, will not wear what they are told, simply because that adolescent sense of injustice lingers. Think how much more successful and integrated we might all have been had we seen the conventions of work clothes as an adult domain to be looked forward to, as opposed to an echo of a pointless and arbitrary regime.

[Paulclem]

Uniforms do have a clear purpose - the main one for me is to take away the clothes discrimination. My futher post elaborates a bit on that.

On the other hand, one might just as easily say that it'll turn kids against that kind of high-handed imposition for life. It did with me. And I know many others who, even in their fifties, will not wear what they are told, simply because that adolescent sense of injustice lingers. Think how much more successful and integrated we might all have been had we seen the conventions of work clothes as an adult domain to be looked forward to, as opposed to an echo of a pointless and arbitrary regime.

I can see that. As I've mentioned elsewhere - school is a one stop shop, and as such can't satisfy everyone, or give them what they need. I just think that given this imperfect system - which in my view needs a good overhaul - uniforms are the lesser of the two evils. A school cetainly can't function without discipline, and I think it helps on that front, and it does help the poor kids. My siblings and I used to get uniforms from the local authority, as we weren't well off. They were different to the usual uniforms, but you could blend in.

I'm not for uniforms per se - a different system, smaller teaching units perhaps may not need uniforms. The best option for the situation? Yes in my opinion.

[Heathcliff]

Edit: I secretly love my scrubs though, they make me look so sexy and ''medical''.

Hahahaha!! I must pinch your cheeks again...

We have a school uniform. It is pretty much ordinary.
We have a blazer that so many people hate wearing during assemblies and to and from school in terms 2, 3 and 4, however us students were the twits who voted it in the the first place, so it apparently is here to stay.
I like it though; it has shoulder-pads.

[kasie]

One of the reasons for asking children to wear uniform is so that they can be identified outside school; agreed, this has a negative as well as a positive aspect (Big Teacher Is Watching You) but when you are the teacher in charge of a class on a School Trip and you need to herd your thirty or so Little Darlings back to the coach and the Natural History Museum is seething with school parties, believe me, it's useful, nay essential, to be able to spot your own LDs at a glance.

Except....

...the day we took the whole school on a picnic to one of the local parks. Three bus loads of excited five to seven year olds - and guess who was in charge? That's right.... As usual, school uniform was required to be worn, summer uniform was grey shorts and white shirt for boys (no tie required, it was high summer - we used to get that in those days), blue gingham dress for girls, swimsuits and towels in bags if Mum said you could go in the paddling pool (what H&S rules?), packed lunch in bag, all teachers supplied with First Aid kit. Off we went, lovely day had by all, loads of children at the park, we're not the only school making use of the fine weather at the end of term, lots of good social interaction, children from different schools playing together, etc, etc, children happy, teachers happy. Until it's time to go home - must be back by 2.30, gather up children, shepherd them onto the coaches, always a few stragglers but easy to spot them because - they're wearing school uniform! So kasie goes off, rounding up the grey shorts/white shirts and the blue gingham dresses: fine, until a little mite tugs my skirt and says, 'Miss, I'm not in your class'. 'Never mind,' says kasie, 'just get on the coach and we'll find your teacher back at school.' 'But I'm not in your class!' 'Never mind,' and kasie shoos wee girl towards coach, thinking, 'Still two short, must go back with same number as started out'. At coach door, desperate child shrieks, 'Miss, I'm not even in your school!' At which point, kasie realises there are two schools at the park that day with a summer uniform of blue gingham dresses...

So you see, school uniforms don't work.....

(Yes, I did check the coaches to make sure I had not hi-jacked any other children from the school the other side of the park. Yes, I did apologise profusely to traumatised child and returned her to her proper teacher who cackled with hysterical laughter. No, I did not leave any children at the park - not on that occasion, anyway....)

Sorry - this is supposed to be the Serious Discussions thread, isn't it?

[kiki1982]

Fortunely the child was assertive enough and knew that she wasn't in your school...

Better to remember what the children in your class look like for real, then. Can't be very hard, because, end of term, you have had them for a whole year. The teachers of teenagers have a few more faces to remember, but it isn't very hard, only remembering names is a problem.

@PaulClem:

It might help the 'poor kids' at frst sight, but in the end, there is always something to pick on if they think you're poor: your bike, your jewellery, even your 'charity' uniform of lesser quality apparently, your coat, the pen you write with, the quality of your school bag, the estate you live on, your accent in some cases even... The problem moves itself. Making kids wear uniforms because of that reason is removing the symptom and not the cause. It's like when you have flu, you take a painkiller for the headache you have. Does it take away the flu? No. It only lightens the load until the painkiller has finished working. If the students have seen the car of father or mother or the house the 'poor' student lives in, they are inevitably going to pick on him. It maybe will last longer, but in the end they will. Better to address the picking (if that is at all possible), than trying to conceal it.

As I said, to me that is not the definition of 'a clear purpose'. If anything, it makes it harder for a teacher to recognise his pupils properly, as Kasie has illustrted, because people tend to look from afar at clothing in order to recognise a person. If you have a full class you go to the Natural History Museum with, and you have had them for a year or more, you will inevitably recognise your pupils because of their style, because of the T-shirt they have worn in your class several times. Try that with a uniform. If there are several schools vsiting with the same thing (because there are only so many uniform colours), it'll be hard to distinguish.