JBI - can you explain about the different qualities of energy, or qi? I read that one goal in Daoism is to subtilise our energy or qi, until it reached the most subtle it could be, at which point we would leave this planet and go live with the gods. Have you read about this? The book I read that mentioned this was Daoist Body Cultivation.
Some of my favorite parts so far:
The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.
The unnameable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.
Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.
Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.
The Moments of Dominion
That happen on the Soul
And leave it with a Discontent
Too exquisite — to tell —
-Emily Dickinson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVW8GCnr9-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckGIvr6WVw4
What I find particularly fascinating about the concept of Tao is its transcendce and yet its emptiness in words. The paradoxes of the poems (if that's what you want to call them) seem to create a void beyond words and beyond logic, almost describing the descriptionless with these paradoxes.
Also, doesn't the unification of Tao somewhat remind you of Spinoza's pantheism? Or am I just far off the wall?
The Moments of Dominion
That happen on the Soul
And leave it with a Discontent
Too exquisite — to tell —
-Emily Dickinson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVW8GCnr9-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckGIvr6WVw4
Well I think it comes down to the simple things in life, thats what the message of the tao is all about. There is much we have to unlearn and there is much taught which is of no value to our souls journey in the long run. I mean its all fair and well to play scrabble in order to show off ones knowledge. But thats not where its at, surely? Why identify with that certificate on the wall, when it really doesnt reflect the real YOU, the 'old soul' who knows everything. There is more important things to focus on, so enjoy unlearning all that stuff and become a child again.Though, I find some of it to be a bit impractical. Much of the text almost seems to be beckoning people to stop learning, and live a monastic life. Perhaps for the few, this is good, but for others it is a bit impractical.
This is one of my favorite verses:
Life is a series
of natural
and spontaneous
changes
Don’t resist them --
that only creates sorrow
Let reality be reality
Let things flow naturally forward
in whatever way
they like
Lao Tzu
The Tao way is somewhat similar to what is written in the Vedas. I have read Dao De Jing I was so startled to find so many similarities between these two philosophical treatises. Taoism is the way, and from that standpoint it is more of philosophy than of religion.
It demands of us a great amount of contemplation to understand Taoism. They are gems of wisdom, a great reservoir of knowledge. One must read unreservedly and profoundly to get to the bottom of this path.
They are matchless ideas and I believe anyone reading it with a focused mind will be transformed by Taoism. Just a cursory reading will not suffice. One has to read several times in complete seclusion. They are ancinet findings or truths and if we look at them thru our smeared we cannot visualize the beauty of them.
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
I agree. I have an MP3 called "Tao - The Three Treasures" (about 60 hours) that I have just begun, where Osho evaluates the Tao. Osho says he does not connect with Lao-Tzu, as he loves Buddha instead. In my opinion he is very gracious in describing the Tao if that is the case. This is what Osho has to say:They are matchless ideas and I believe anyone reading it with a focused mind will be transformed by Taoism. Just a cursory reading will not suffice. One has to read several times in complete seclusion. They are ancinet findings or truths and if we look at them thru our smeared we cannot visualize the beauty of them.
Lao-Tzu is simple, his analogy’s are that of a villager -- but alive, radiant. His book of Analogy has to be read again and again .-- Lao-Tzu is a mathematical philosopher who few people understand. But if you allow him you will be transformed by him.
You cant read Lao-Tzu like a paper back it is a life long work to enter the analogy. Logic is superficial, you can understand Aristotle, there is nothing much. But when it comes to Lao-Tzu, the first time you might even miss that there is something. But by-and-by Lao-Tzu will haunt you,. His attraction is feminine. By and by he will catch your being. You only have to allow him.
In logic you have to fight and compete, in analogy you have to be sympathetic you have to allow it -- only then the analogy can flower. So in deep sympathy and reverence, in deep faith and trust only Lao-Tzu can be understood. You will not understand Lao-Tzu with your mind, only your heart. Analogy is for the heart, logic is for the mind. Lao-Tzu is a poet, you listen to poetry you don’t argue with it. You absorb the poetry, you chew it. You allow to move your being, you digest it. You forget the poetry and the words completely but the fragrance becomes part of you. The flavour and significance of the poetry becomes part of you.
The Tao that can be told, is not the eternal Tao
The Name that can be named, is not the eternal name
The Tao is both named and nameless
As Nameless, it is the origin of all things
As Named, it is the mother of 10,000 things
Ever Desireless one can see the mystery
Ever Desiring one sees only the manifestations
And the Mystery itself
is the Doorway to all understanding
Dr. Wayne Dyer
Tao Blessing for Self or Others
Be Strong. May strength fill you.
May fate favor you and your endeavors.
Your prosperity will abound and swirl about you.
Be lucky. You will know great luck.
Be Healthy. May your life know great vigor and strength.
Be Wise. May the Tao Inject Itself Into Your Life Directly.
Change Fluidly. Bend as you need to bend.
Draw Healthy Love to You.
Let the Support of Allies and Friends Find You.
oops double post
:d[/quote]the difference between a little man and a man of tao
a student once asked a zen master, "what is the difference between a little man and a man of tao?".
The zen master clarified, "its simple, when a little man first becomes a student, he is in such a hurry to rush home and tell every one at the top of his voice. On hearing the master's words, he will climb on the roof and shout loudly to the people, on learning about the ways of the master, he would go about the town telling everyone about his newly acquired knowledge".
The zen master says of the tao man. "when a tao man becomes a student, he will first bow his head in gratitude. On hearing the words of the master, he will bow his head and his shoulders and on knowing the ways of the master, he will bow further low up to his waist and walk alongside the wall in order to avoid people from spotting or noticing him"
This is wonderful, and it reminds me how thoughts and aspirations affect reality as directly as actions do.Originally Posted by dizzydoll
"So tell your mind and body they are strong, and begin."
Why thank you Nikolai, it was an appropriate, silent goodbye to someone I care very deeply for
Here is another, but this is a much harder act to follow:
The Principles of the Tao
1. To venerate Heaven and Earth - Value and respect both the Heavens and the Earth. Be a good steward of the planet and its resources.
2. To revere the divine beings - Hold in highest esteem the Tao, the eternal source. Appreciate and honor all of the good role models, Buddhas, sages, and teachers, who have come before us.
3. To be patriotic and responsible - Respect and honor the good things about your country and its government and to work to change things that could be done better; fulfill your civic duties.
4. To be virtuous and courteous - Always act in a virtuous and courteous manner and uphold the Rules of Propriety. Practical guidelines regarding propriety of Demeanor, Deportment, Speech, Conduct, Example, and Sexual activity can be found in the Analects of Confucius.
5. To honor the parents - Love, honor, respect, support, and be obedient to one's parents to let them live worry-free lives.
6. To value the teachers - Honor and respect one's teachers and elders for their efforts to educate you and for the wisdom of their years.
7. To keep faith with friends - Be trustworthy, dependable and honest with your friends.
8. To live harmoniously with neighbors - Be a good neighbor. Be helpful and friendly with those who share your neighborhood.
9. To discard the bad and seek the good - Rid oneself of bad habits and pursue good thoughts and deeds.
10. To clarify the Five Relationships and the Eight Virtues - Expound upon the Five Bonds of Human Relationships and the Eight Cardinal Virtues:
a) Five Bonds of Human Relationships - between sovereign and minister, parents and children, husband and wife, between siblings, and between friends
b) Eight Cardinal Virtues - filial piety, brotherly love, loyalty, truthfulness, courtesy, righteousness, integrity, and a sense of shame
11. To spread the teachings of the Five Religions - Recognize as valid all significant spiritual or philosophical traditions that have the potential to uplift and inspire people to do good.
12. To follow the ancient practice of the Four Ethics, the Mainstays and the Constant Virtues - To obey and respectfully practice the Four Ethical Principles, the Three Mainstays of Social Order, and the Five Constant Virtues.
The Four Ethical Principles - courtesy, righteousness, integrity, a sense of shame
The Three Mainstays of Social Order - between sovereign and minister, parents and children, husband and wife
The Five Constant Virtues - benevolence, righteousness, courtesy, wisdom, and truthfulness
13. To cleanse the mind and purify the spirit - Eliminate harmful/destructive thoughts. Maintain a happy positive attitude.
14. To utilize the illusory world in cultivating the truth – “Illusory” refers to the Buddhist idea that the world is just an illusion. By studying the world we can learn about the Tao.
15. To restore the nature of the self - To recognize, value, and respect one's original Buddha-nature. That is, you are a sentient being with an infinite potential for understanding, or “enlightenment” if you prefer, and for doing good.
16. To develop the perfection of conscience - Continually work to develop one's innate wisdom with respect to acting in harmony with the Tao.
17. To establish oneself and help others in establishment - First secure for yourself a stable position in society and then help those less fortunate to secure a stable position too.
18. To achieve goals and help others in achievement - Set and reach one's own goals and help others do so too.
19. To bring the world into peace - Work to transform the world into a peaceful, honest, and orderly society.
20. To change hearts into goodness - Enlighten the minds of people, by your actions and your words, and enable them to return to a natural state of benevolence.
21. To transform the world into Great Unity - By pursuing this path, to bring the world into a state of harmony, equality, fraternity, and justice.
This was the first verse of the Tao Te Ching that I was introduced to. I find it the most beautiful:
The spirit that never dies
is called the mysterious feminine
Although she becomes the whole universe
her immaculate purity is never lost
Although she assumes countless forms
her true identity remains intact
The gateway to the mysterious female
is called the root of creation
Listen to her voice
hear it echo through creation
Without fail, she reveals her presence
without fail, she brings us to our own perfection
Although it is invisible, it endures
It will never end.
6th verse of the Tao Te Ching - Lao-Tzu
Those who know, do not talk
Those who talk, do not know
Block all the passages
Close your mouth
Cordon off your senses
Blunt your sharpener
Untie your knot
Soften your glare
Settle your dust
This is primal union
for the secret embrace
One who knows the secret
is not moved by attachment or urgent
swayed by profit or loss
or touched by honor or disgrace
He is far beyond the cares of men
yet comes to hold the dearest place in their hearts
This therefore is the highest state of man.
56th verse of the Tao Te Ching
You are me, and I am you.
Isn't it obvious that we "inter-are"?
You cultivate the flower in yourself,
so that I will be beautiful.
I transform the garbage in myself,
so that you will not have to suffer.
I support you;
you support me.
I am in this world to offer you peace;
you are in this world to bring me joy.
by Thich Nhat Hanh
6th verse from The Tao Te Ching
The spirit that never dies
is called the mysterious feminine.
Although she becomes the whole universe,
her immaculate purity is never lost.
Although she assumes countless forms,
her true identity remains intact.
The gateway to the mysterious female
is called the root of creation.
Listen to her voice,
hear it echo through creation.
Without fail,
she reveals her presence.
Without fail,
she brings us to our own perfection.
Although it is invisible, it endures.
It will never end.
Lao Tzu
Taoism and Confucianism
Taoism and Confucianism disagree on several points on their understanding of how the world functions and the best role for a person to play in that world. It is difficult to say that one is a criticism of another, but there are comparable issues in which Taoist writings can be interpreted as directly addressing the more troubling aspects of Confucianism.
Confucianism tends to despise nature. Writings of Confucian scholars show nature to be cruel and symbolize all the negative in the world. They fear it and hide from it. In his poetry, the Confucian Tu Fu uses the most frightening aspects of nature to show his discomfort in being out in the wild, "I feared wild beasts would hear her cries." (Tu Fu 1384) Civilization is a place from where nature can be excluded. "Oh, to own a mighty mansion of a hundred thousand rooms, A great roof for the poorest gentlemen of all this world, a place to make them smile, A building unshaken by wind or rain, as solid as a mountain, Oh, when shall I see before my eyes a towering roof such as this?" (1388) He is desiring to take all the people, or at least his chosen gentlemen, of the world out of nature and hide them behind protective walls and roof.
Taoism enjoys the beauty in nature. The writings of Taoists seek to live in harmony with nature. The Taoist Paradise of The Peach Blossom Spring is a place where people live as a part of nature, not sequestered from it, "after a few dozen steps it suddenly opened out onto a broad and level plain where well-built houses were surrounded by rich fields and pretty ponds. Mulberry, bamboo and other trees and plants grew there, and criss-cross paths skirted the fields." (T'ao Ch'ien 1360)
There is a contrast between Confucianism and Taoism in how they view the role of a person in the world around him. Confucianism, while rebelling against the dictatorial role of Legalism, still takes a far more aggressive position than Taoism.
Confucians desire to impose their will upon their world. They are burdened by the troubles of the world and take to task modeling things into a civilized system where all things are put into a proper place. The Confucian ruler would favor leading by example over coercion, but the desire for controlling behavior is present none the less. There is a certain arrogance in the notion of always judging people to be good or evil. While the Confucian measure of goodness is in actions towards other people, it is also measured in a distinct lack of kindness to those the Confucian judges to be evil, "Those in his village who are good like him and those who are bad dislike him." (Analects 829-30)
Taoists believe in a Natural Law where the world should be allowed to go on unobstructed. "Do not be disturbed, do not be frightened; all things will clarify themselves. Do not be upset, do not be startled; all things will order themselves." (Cleary 39) Rather than disturbing the balance of nature, or being themselves disturbed by things beyond their control, they allow nature to take on its own order and find peace in that setting.
When Confucius is questioned about the role of government, he first lists three things important to rule in society as being providing food, arms, and cultivating trust. When questioned on the relative importance, he first lists arms as the least important. But when further questioned, he spells out trust as being paramount among the three, "Give up food. Death has been with us since the beginning of time, but when there is no trust, the common people will have nothing to stand on." (Analects 828) This implies that it is more important for a ruling class to maintain control, and retain their status as a ruling class, than it is for the basic needs of the people governed to be provided for.
Taoism gives a very different view on how to govern, "The Sage's way of governing begins by Emptying the heart of desires, Filling the belly with food, Weakening the ambitions, Toughening the bones." (Lao Tzu 7) Rather than the Confucian priority of maintaining social structure, the Taoists would forgo the hierarchal structure altogether in favor of providing for the basic needs of the populace. Here is a sharp criticism of more discriminating and dogmatic philosophies, that favor a ruling class, such as Confucianism and the more extreme Legalism. Where Confucianism seeks an absolute solution, Taoism purports the concept of wu-wei, that is 'non purposeful action'.
The ultimate difference between Confucianism and Taoism is their respective views on what is knowledge.
Confucius had no use for concerns outside ordering society. Upon spending a day in meditation, "I [Confucius] found that I gained nothing from it. It would have been better for me to have spent the time in learning." (Analects 830) Confucius also sees no point in spending time away from society, "One cannot associate with birds and beasts. Am I not a member of this human race?" (831) Rather, the Confucian scholar would spend a lifetime in learning to judge good from bad and how to promote his notion of virtue in society.
Taoism, on the other hand, seeks to appreciate that there is more to the world than can be readily studied. Human judgements and interpritations are inherently flawed by a lack of understanding the whole picture from its limited perspective and the limitations of language, the tool with which a person thinks. As expressed in the opening of the Tao Teh Ching, "Tao can be talked about, but not the Eternal Tao. Names can be named, but not the Eternal Name." (Lao Tzu 3) The Tao Teh Ching directly comments on the common concept of knowledge, "To realize that our knowledge is ignorance, This is a noble insight. To regard our ignorance as knowledge, This is a mental sickness." (145) Here, if anywhere, is where Confucian ideals are directly refuted by Taoism. Taoism sees the most virtuous state of a person to be as a child with his mind unclouded by the very knowledge and judgements that Confucianism would regard as virtuous.
Confucius was concerned with matters of human relationships. His philosophy inspires scholars to take up civil service with the goal of building a society based upon their discernment of good and bad and to desire that which is judged to be good. Lao Tzu rejects such worldly concerns, limited knowledge and flawed judgements as creating an imbalance in the nature of things. The way of Confucius is to forge a moral society protected from the world, while the way of Lao Tzu is to allow man and nature to come into a harmonic coexistence.
The Tao is empty but inexhaustible
Bottomless, the ancestor of it all
Within it, the sharp edges become smooth
the twisted knots loosen
the sun is softened by a cloud
the dust settles into place
it is hidden but always present
I do not know who gave birth to it
it seems to be the common ancestor of all
“The Father of things”
4th verse of the Tao Te Ching - Lao-Tzu
Dr Wayne Dyer
Other interpretations of the 4th Verse of the Tao Te Ching
4. THE UNFATHOMABLE TAO
It is the nature of the Tao,
that even though used continuously,
it is replenished naturally,
never being emptied,
and never being over-filled,
as is a goblet
which spills its contents
upon the ground.
The Tao therefore cannot be said
to waste its charge,
but constantly remains
a source of nourishment
for those who are not so full of self
as to be unable to partake of it.
When tempered beyond its natural state,
the finest blade will lose its edge.
Even the hardest tempered sword,
against water, is of no avail,
and will shatter if struck against a rock.
When untangled by a cutting edge,
the cord in little pieces lies,
and is of little use.
Just as the finest swordsmith
tempers the finest blade
with his experience,
so the sage, with wisdom, tempers intellect.
With patience, tangled cord may be undone,
and problems which seem insoluble, resolved.
With wise administrators, all can exist in unity,
each with the other,
because no man need feel that he exists,
only as the shadow of his brilliant brother.
Through conduct not contrived for gain,
awareness of the Tao may be maintained.
This is how its mysteries may be found.
Stan Rosenthal's Translation
4
The Tao is an empty vessel;
it is used, but never filled.
Oh, unfathomable source
of ten thousand things!
Blunt the sharpness,
Untangle the knot,
Soften the glare,
Merge with dust.
Oh, hidden deep
but ever present!
I do not know
from whence
it comes.
It is the forefather of the gods.
Gia Fu Feng & Jane English
-4-
The Tao is like an empty bowl,
yet it may be used
without ever needing to be filled.
It is the deep and unfathomable source
of the ten thousand things.
Blunt the sharpness.
Untie the knot.
Soften the glare.
Settle with the dust.
It is hidden deep yet ever present.
I do not know whose child it is.
It existed before the common ancestor.
Tolbert McCarroll
Where Science and Buddhism Meet.PART 1
PART 1
This emptiness also known as ---- Tao in Taoism and in Brahman in Hinduism
These two seem to strongly parallel the concept of the quantum field
Where Science and Buddhism Meet. PART 2
PART 2
Unobserved particles take on infinite potential - behave like waves
While observed, particles take on finite possibility
Quantum physicists have now stumbled upon what mystics have been saying for over 2000 years -- that reality is the projection of the mind.
132
Form and emptiness are interdependent,
yet identical.
Silence and sound are different,
yet the same.
Subject and object exist,
yet they don’t.
Every thing is in all things,
all things are in every thing.
We have never met,
yet we have known each other
since before time existed.
Knowing this brings peace.
Accepting this great mystery
is true enlightenment.
Do you despair
when this mystery
seems to block your way?
Don’t.
Enlightenment comes
when it comes.
It is in the blades of grass
you have trampled with your feet.
You cannot go to it,
but it will come to you.
Really nice posts, Dizzy
Thank you Nikolai, after reading some of your posts I figured we think very much alike
Jos Slabbert's True TaoIgnorance is not
a lack of knowledge,
but a lack of faith
in the unknowable.
The ignorant
cling to knowledge
as if knowledge
can explain
the inexplicable.
The Taoist sage
lives in harmony
with the mysterious.
46th verse of Tao Te Ching
By Jos Slabbert
Balance is important:
As for myself, I am not always a Taoist all the time. I am Taoist when contemplating the mystery and wonder of the universe. I am Taoist when walking in the MO Botanical Gardens or when diving into the ocean waves or practicing Taiji on the Cahokia Mounds. I like to be Taoist when sparring with others, seeking to blend with my opponent’s movements rather than opposing them, turning my opponent into my dance partner instead of my enemy. I am Taoist when I contemplate the continuous ebb and flow of Yin and Yang. I am Taoist whenever people ask me to define myself in their terms, or whenever else I feel like it. But in truth I must also confess to a fondness for being Confucian, also and sometimes at the same time “Bears Paw”. “Bears Paw” as discussed by Confucius foremost disciple Mencius states:
“I like fish and I also like bear’s paw. If I cannot have both, I shall give up the fish and choose the bear’s paw. I like life and I also like righteousness. If I cannot have both of them, I shall give up life and choose righteousness. I love life, but there is something I love more than life, and therefore I will not do anything improper to have it. I also hate death, but there is something I hate more than death and therefore there are occasions when I will not avoid danger.”
A .pdf file Tao Te Ching (TTC) and the Art of War (AOW) Strategies
http://www.stltaiji.com/documents/th...ng_article.pdf
Many a false step is made by standing still.
Chinese ProverbREAD MORE...Spirituality
Taoists believe that man is a microcosm for the universe. The body ties directly into the Chinese five elements. The five organs correlate with the five elements, the five directions and the seasons. Akin to the Hermetic maxim of "as above, so below", Taoism posits that man may gain knowledge of the universe by understanding himself.
In Taoism, even beyond Chinese folk religion, various rituals, exercises, and substances are said to positively affect one's physical and mental health. They are also intended to align oneself spiritually with cosmic forces, or enable ecstatic spiritual journeys. These concepts seem basic to Taoism in its elite forms. Internal alchemy and various spiritual practices are used by some Taoists to improve health and extend life, theoretically even to the point of physical immortality.
The Three Jewels of Tao
The Three Jewels of Tao are compassion, moderation, and humility. They are also translated as kindness, simplicity (or the absence of excess), and modesty. Arthur Waley describes them as "the three rules that formed the practical, political side of the author's teaching". He correlated the Three Treasures with "abstention from aggressive war and capital punishment", "absolute simplicity of living", and "refusal to assert active authority.
R e m i n d e r
The Religious Texts section is for discussion of such texts.
Unless you are using these to support your arguments, please avoid simply quoting from other websites or sources.
~
"It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
~
I have something.. well I just gave it to a friend..... but it's called the Buddhist I Ching... wait... I Ching is related to Daoism, right? Anyway it's a great text for study... it was written (the comentaries or what have you) a few centuries ago by a Buddhist master... and then just translated by Thomas Cleary (of course)...
I think what Daoism essentially reveals for us... as do all religions... that is... anyway... my interpretation, which I do realize is not what everyone else thinks (thank GOD)...
Well, what I am saying is... I think the essential truth in all of them is something that islandclimber, put into expression... when we were talking philosophy and what is existence, reality, ourselves, etc. he said... after all his studies and living and adventures etc. and what have you... his conclusion was that we are love. And quite interestingly to me, just now I've come to the same conclusion a few days ago... I realized it, fitting it together.. that's what I would say is the underlying truth which is pretty helpfully revealed in... Daoism, in Buddhism, in other religions.. that is my idea.
I agree Nikolai, love comes and goes in many forms. However sometimes love presents itself as difficulties at first only to be understood later. Love is letting things go too, sometimes its tough love. There are so many amazing degrees to love its quite fascinating.
I mean, rather, Dizzy, not about how love is in our lives... but that we ourselves are love, we are light... that's what I meant.
Yes Nikolia, light and love are our real natures and they are inseparably ourselves.
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
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