Cold Ale - The Blokes' Thread!

[The Atheist]

And the worst thing is, some people, parents, conservatives - want to keep on inflicting the good old days on our kids.

And don't forget the corporal punishment! Gotta have that.

David Kirk (the only Kiwi ever to hoist a RWC) has a great story about him going to boarding school. This would have been in the early 1970s.

A nine year old boy hated it so much he ran away. His father returned him, where the headmaster promptly administered the cane.

To a flaming nine year old!

Whatever school is now, we have to be an improvement on that.

I'd love to track the bloke down, assuming he didn't top himself in the meantime.

I dont think school really helped me at all now that im thinkin of it. Everything i studied, though some of it interesting and insightful, really has not advanced my career or tertiary learning at all watsoever. Everything I have done after school has been of my own skill and attitude, rather then facts I was forced to regurgitate daily while at school.

Bingo!

And I notice it again with my kids.

I reckon that the very basics learnt are good - reading, writing and maths. But once they get past primary school, it seems there is very little of real value taught at school.

Even worse, it seems to me that every single godammed teacher is a card-carrying Socialist (with the capital letter) who never really grew up. Some of the stuff they try to infect kids with is frightening.

Trouble is, I don't see a better system, and the problems that exist are of political making by under-funding, so we're stuck with it.

I understand the thought behind it, but its a flawed and outdated system. It would be changed if it wasnt one of the most basic and effective part of the machine designed to prep us and mould us for a life of servitude.

I suspect you've been a bit carried away by your own rhetoric here. It's certainly flawed, but there is no better option. Preparation for "a life of servitude" is going too far. Even the Queen of England went to school, and I'd bet that the least servile people on the planet - Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, George Soros, etc., all went to school.

Were forced to apply rank over others based solely on a number which someone else has given them, we are pruned into materialism through clothes and trinkets other kids have that you dont. We have our imaginations and our individualism stiffled in an attempt to make us productive little worker bees for a system we dont understand and certainly dont support.

What alternative would you propose? Having created society, we're more or less bound to continue it, because the only alternative is anarchy, and while that would suit me fine, I don't think it's a great answer for the vast majority of people.

Its unfortunate that we dwell in such a reality and era that the inherent gifts of humanity are thrown away for a figure of absolutely no value except what someone with a bigger figure tells you its worth. We have lost our way as a civilization I believe, and we are due for a fall. When something doesnt work it is broken, and eventually it will have to be fixed lest it destroy itself.

Either way Im happy really, let it burn and pray something better grows in its place.

Wow.

I hope you're just being overly cynical here, because I don't agree with your premises at all.

Winston Churchill once said that democracy was awful.

But the alternatives are all far worse.

And he was right - the current system of capitalism and democracy is not ideal, but since we don't live in an ideal world, we have to make the best of the one we have.

In terms of wiping us out, I recommend the christian bible - there are a couple of rollickingly good apocalypse stories in it.

[prendrelemick]

Years ago in the pre-Thatcher days, a British industrailist was quoted as saying (in private) that all the working class wanted was "Beer, Baccy and Benidorm." Of course this truth was so unpalatable that he was hounded out of his job.

Too much enlightening education would unsettle us hoi polloi, and that would never do. Fortunately, not much of that sort of thing goes on in our schools. As Oscar Wilde said:-

"In England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and would probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square."


As to the more important question of Jocky's whereabouts, I reckon he's getting an early start to the sorrow drowning that the Scottish nation will be doing after the Oh Calcutta! cup this weekend.

[Paulclem]

Too much enlightening education would unsettle us hoi polloi, and that would never do. Fortunately, not much of that sort of thing goes on in our schools.

I once met a public school chap who disputed that I could possibly have got the degree I did as I "didn't know what culture was". He really believed what his peers, his school and parents had instilled in him. He believed the myth of priviledge and spouted it so. I woud have knuckled his head if I hadn't laughed at him so much.

I did meet good chaps from the uper echelons who clearly weren't taken in by such guff.

[The Atheist]

As to the more important question of Jocky's whereabouts, I reckon he's getting an early start to the sorrow drowning that the Scottish nation will be doing after the Oh Calcutta! cup this weekend.

Why on earth is the Calcutta Cup?

Did you once play for the city as part of the trophy?

I once met a public school chap who disputed that I could possibly have got the degree I did as I "didn't know what culture was". He really believed what his peers, his school and parents had instilled in him. He believed the myth of priviledge and spouted it so. I woud have knuckled his head if I hadn't laughed at him so much.

Class hath its privileges.

I did meet good chaps from the uper echelons who clearly weren't taken in by such guff.

I'm sure it's all to do with the amount of inbreeding in the ancestry.

[BienvenuJDC]

Just saying....

Unemployment sucks!!

[gbrekken]

retirement soesn't suck as bad as unemployment. I'm still attempting to survive both.

i was reminded of the foloowing earlier. a couple of schoolboy friends (one a city kid, one a country (farm) boy), were talking one day about why the farm kid got good grades and the other not. the farm kid told the city kid that it was a benefit of the smart pills he took. the city kid asked what they were, and the farm kid told him to come out to farm over the weekend and he'd see. Once there, walking across the yard, the farm kid told the city kid "there's one". the city kid ate it, and quickly said "it tastes like crap". to which the farm kid replied "see, you're getting smarter already". Learning through, via, experiental necessity is more valuable. Since we've all gotten off the farm, or away from self-preservational skills, we've progressed(?) into more programmed learning. Between survival modes and present day, we(?) even went through the one room school house period. The best teacher may have been a true renaissance man. however, these days, that person would soon be expelled as "not meeting standards", etc. etc. etc. Truth be told, he would probably be ground into small dust by the accepted system. Is he wrong? The system? Which is more cynical: to believe that we must accept things as they are, or believe that the success of the past had unacceptable things wrong with it? As to governmental/economic systems, capitalism seems to be the only self-sustainable system, with the same inherent abuses (greed/selfishness) as any other system. they say that self-preservation is the #1 motivation of human beings, so a renaissance man, knowing how to make head cheese and a few other things (put seed in the ground, grind the fruit into flour, etc.), finding himself teaching within the system, will soon/or later leave to preserve the self? Many molds are yet to be filled, but there are more that haven't even yet been devised or broken.

[soundofmusic]

Must admit, I don't miss it at all.

The happiest day of my life was the day I escaped.
Go on, man!

Over hill, through the heather, along the low roads and high roads; find that jocky jock!

I really think a good teacher makes all the difference; there are some fields that a person should not get into unless they feel some passion for it...they should leave when they lose the passion.
I hated school; but my teachers hated it more

Yes, we need the Jock; I hear he's hanging in Texas, riding steers and drinking Johnnie Walker

Soundof - you watched it didn't you. i would have too.

I'm not sure about the fake sick - the look on his face was a picture.

Yes- teaching adults is better because i get to go out and about, and it's not about control. I fact i know my class has settlesd in when they start taking the mickey. It's great fun.

I have to admit that i didn't like school compared to having left school. Best years of your life - must be some poor life.

Yeah, I didn't notice you're warning until after that terrible video...It took me a minute to get past that big white bum....

I think I'd go knock that teacher on the head for humiliating my child like that; what is wrong with people?

I'm packing up now, any teacher that allows a mickey is on my wave legnth

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

And don't forget the corporal punishment! Gotta have that.

...Whatever school is now, we have to be an improvement on that.

...I reckon that the very basics learnt are good - reading, writing and maths...

Trouble is, I don't see a better system, and the problems that exist are of political making by under-funding, so we're stuck with it.

...What alternative would you propose? Having created society, we're more or less bound to continue it, because the only alternative is anarchy...

Parhaps it is time to revert to the three R's, (read'n, ritin and rithmatic) a slate tablet and a board (or cane) approach to education. I suffered (?) through the first four years of primary education in a Catholic school and that was back in the days when the majority of the teachers were habit wearing nuns with 12 inch wooden rulres!
I say "suffered", but in all honesty, those four years established a firm foundation for the subsequent years in public school.
I certainly learned my numbers, given the fact that they were permantly imprinted on the palms of my hands, only you had to have a mirror to orient them correctly.

How about this method:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Pk1UYkB3I


RE: Jocky's whereabouts

I just dropped into the coffee shop to see if he was over there. No sign of Jocky, but I was pleasantly surprised at what I saw when I stepped in!

There's a good chance I'll be passing through Dumas on my way out west over spring break vacation. Perhaps Jocky took heed of Horace Greeley's suggestion.

Gilliatt

[soundofmusic]

I was really surprised when they asked for an okay to disipline my daughter in school; I thought the whole spanking thing had stopped in the early '60's. I returned the paper, telling them to call me and I would disipline her; they sent it back and said she could not attend school without it.

She was spanked once, for being politically incorrect; she threw a rock at the only bi-racial child in the school... They asked me what I thought, I asked what the other child did to provoke her; they said that wasn't the point...I told them I would tell her that next time, she should throw something softer, and make sure she only hits a Caucasian child

[The Atheist]

Parhaps it is time to revert to the three R's, (read'n, ritin and rithmatic) a slate tablet and a board (or cane) approach to education. I suffered (?) through the first four years of primary education in a Catholic school and that was back in the days when the majority of the teachers were habit wearing nuns with 12 inch wooden rulres!
I say "suffered", but in all honesty, those four years established a firm foundation for the subsequent years in public school.
I certainly learned my numbers, given the fact that they were permantly imprinted on the palms of my hands, only you had to have a mirror to orient them correctly.

I used to pray thanks to god every night for not being born a Roman Catholic. On the odd occasions one was allowed to play with the heathen Prods, we'd stare in amazement at the stories they'd tell us about their schools.

How about this method:

There's a great racetrack one from years ago - no idea who it was.

A is for also-ran
B is for bookie...

RE: Jocky's whereabouts

I just dropped into the coffee shop to see if he was over there. No sign of Jocky, but I was pleasantly surprised at what I saw when I stepped in!

There's a good chance I'll be passing through Dumas on my way out west over spring break vacation. Perhaps Jocky took heed of Horace Greeley's suggestion.

Gilliatt

Just as well he wasn't in the coffee shop!

I was really surprised when they asked for an okay to disipline my daughter in school; I thought the whole spanking thing had stopped in the early '60's. I returned the paper, telling them to call me and I would disipline her; they sent it back and said she could not attend school without it.

She was spanked once, for being politically incorrect; she threw a rock at the only bi-racial child in the school... They asked me what I thought, I asked what the other child did to provoke her; they said that wasn't the point...I told them I would tell her that next time, she should throw something softer, and make sure she only hits a Caucasian child

Nice work!

I'm amazed they still spank in US schools. Putting the blame on the parents by making them sign permission is an interesting one.

[The Atheist]

15-15



Often, both teams will feel comforted that a draw's as good as a victory.

Not the case with England v Scotland, I presume.

[prendrelemick]

A good result for England, who reached new heights of boring and unadventurous.

[prendrelemick]

I used to pray thanks to god every night for not being born a Roman Catholic. On the odd occasions one was allowed to play with the heathen Prods, we'd stare in amazement at the stories they'd tell us about their schools.



I'm amazed they still spank in US schools. Putting the blame on the parents by making them sign permission is an interesting one.

We had the cane at our school, and it n-n-never d-d-did me any harm

[soundofmusic]

Jethro, you aren't singing dixie; I've been out of work for two months with
all sorts of anomalies....I'm doing the pay day advance dance


Thank You, Atheist, Of course, I had my daughter in about 6 private and 3 public schools because, Of Course, Mom always knew best

prendrelemick, now be honest, do you still have a little cane in your closet hanging by rosary beads

[prendrelemick]

How dare you sounds! - accuse me of having a closet rosary.


The cane is there for perfectly innocent reasons! And any red marks upon my but-tocks are from sitting too long upon fences.