Would a Sane Man...

[virginiawang]

Hi Soundofmusic, I want to let you know some of the events that happened around the world day after day, which you can never imagine I think. Many people were involuntarily commited or medicated because they were considered undesirable in the eyes of their family members. They lost the right to their own sanity. It is a real tragedy in our civilized world.
As to the point you brought forth, of being able to focus better after being medicated, I believe you were lying. Have you once in your life entered a real paychiatric ward or an asylum for a few minutes and looked around? If so, you would never have held such an opinion. Those being medicated lost the aim of their life. Their eyes look straight with no expressions at all. They are not living beings with a heart, I believe. They cannot do anything at all, let alone focus their minds. Of course, they can be trained to do some simple works like baking bread and selling it with a monotonous voice. I am sure you will feel sad when you really take a look at those unfortunate people. Is it better to have violent bouts of emotions than to exist in a death-like coma?
The conditions you mentioned are truly terrible, but when they are compared with a deathlike existence, they are just OK.
To die with dignity is what I wish if somebody wants to interfere with my life by way of psychiatry.
Those being medicated and involuntarily commited do not have dignity. You cannot deny it.
By the way, I do not think narcotics are real psychiatric drugs. I cannot live without sleeping pills, which are also narcotics, I guess. They are not psychiatric drugs, I am sure.

[Jozanny]

Virginia: Here I think you are straying some. That psychiatry can be abused does not mean that psychiatry cannot help patients function better, and yes, medications can and do work, and posters who understand this aren't lying.

Mental health is a complicated issue, and though I side with the thinker Foucault for the most part in terms of an intellectual critique of madness and its treatment, this does not mean that modalities should simply be damned, in the sense that we do need systems in order for society to function.

Essentially, there is no *right* answer here about emotion health and mental well being. As Freud was the first modern doctor to recognize, it is a matter of scale. If you are addicted to sleeping pills, btw, you should discuss this with your physician.

PS: I apologize to everyone for being a bit dour in a few posts here or there. I am going through *the change*, as my grandmother's generation called it, and my fake cigarettes cannot quite handle my stress as tobacco used to.

[virginiawang]

Hi Jozanny, You quite misunderstood me. I did not critisize psychiatry because it can be abused. I did it because it hurts human beings. Over the past years psychiatrists made their best attempts to calm their victims by damaging their brain and nerve system. Their only purpose is to make people more manageable.
By the way, I do not think it is fair and right to deprive all people who feel more than others of their sanity, even if it is beneficial to society as a whole. Of course it is easier to control a group of robots than some real men with unexpected impulses gushing out each moment. You can not get rid of all the people you deem undesirable even if you were the king.

I do not understand what you meant by " btw". Sleeping pills are good for me. They are given by my Hematology doctor each month.

As I read your post again, I could not check my impulse to scream out loud. My anger almost smothered me. To function better? It is a tricky phrase. Do you think those on medication in a ward or an asylum, baking bread or watering flowers all day long, function better than real lunatic people with bouts of emotions gushing forth unexpectedly? Many people have been labeled by psychiatrists and restricted all their lives, by both medication and the fact that they are not protected by law. Their minds have been crippled and they cannot do, think, or feel anything. Yes, they are calm and stable. They can work mechanically without a heart that feels. Is that the sort of function you laud?

[Jozanny]

It isn't just used to contain negative behavior, but to help people heal, and ease pain. Few people are involuntarily institutionalized these days, not in the US anyway, and in most cases, if person X doesn't want a medication, they can refuse it.

I do understand your protest, as I have experienced able-bodied hatred against me recently that was blatant, and it is best I do not get into detail, but in cases where self-harm may occur, or harm to others, treatment is the only option, especially when illness doesn't enable a person to perform daily living activities. And when we deal with the dementias, there is little choice. Alzheimer's patients need to be cared for when they lose themselves--and even in my case, I am a realist. My limbs do not work, and it is only within certain parameters that I can just manage. When I am in my 60's I will undoubtedly have to accept more constraints. Those with serious mental disease have the same problem.

[virginiawang]

US is a safe place, but not all countries are as safe. I am living in a dangerous place, where all kinds of jokes can occur.
I think even in the US people on medication tend to be restricted by both their family members who take care of them and their psychiatrists. They are labeled forever.
I do not understand what is able-bodied hatred. I do not think treatment will prevent harm at all. Do you really think medication can cure dementia and make people who suffer from it think better? I do not think any medication can lead to a better brain function. I am sorry If I've offended you in any way. I really do not understand.

[soundofmusic]

music: One of our Disabled In Action activists just passed, thankfully, in much the way you describe; he was 79 and it was a terrible ordeal, which is one of my criticisms of the independent living movement. I do not believe in hanging on at all costs, and losing all my old friends like this has been taking its toll on me.

I have been trying to tell my family in no uncertain terms that I am not going to die like Terri Schiavo and my friend. I will not. The activists fought to keep him going on the respirator with a feeding tube, and I am writing an angry essay, as there is no dignity in what he went through; his aide is my housekeeper, and we were all stretched to the breaking point.

It must be very difficult for you to watch your friends going through this long wasting away. When I first started this work, our patients seemed to drift away in a sort of suspended animation. Of late, they seem to go through an extended wasting, more pain, too strong to die; too weak to live.

Hi Soundofmusic, I want to let you know some of the events that happened around the world day after day, which you can never imagine I think. Many people were involuntarily commited or medicated because they were considered undesirable in the eyes of their family members. They lost the right to their own sanity. It is a real tragedy in our civilized world.
As to the point you brought forth, of being able to focus better after being medicated, I believe you were lying. Have you once in your life entered a real paychiatric ward or an asylum for a few minutes and looked around? If so, you would never have held such an opinion. Those being medicated lost the aim of their life. They eyes look straight with no expressions at all. They are not living beings with a heart, I believe. Not to say to focus, they cannot do anything at all. Of course, they can be trained to do some simple works like baking bread and selling it with a monotonous voice. I am sure you will feel sad when you really take a look at those unfortunate people. Is it better to have violent bouts of emotions than to exist in a death-like coma?
The conditions you mentioned are truly terrible, but when they are compared with a deathlike existence, they are just OK.
To die with dignity is what I wish if somebody wants to interfere with my life by way of psychiatry.
Those being medicated and involuntarily commited do not have dignity. You cannot deny it.
By the way, I do not think narcotics are real psychiatric drugs. I cannot live without sleeping pills, which are also narcotics, I guess. They are not psychiatric drugs, I am sure.

I know what you mean, Virginia. Actually, I visited a family member in such a place when I was a child; I still have nightmares about it...Places where they keep adults with downs syndrome and such. Cold places with cots and no sheets, filth on the floors, men and women together and all sorts of terrible things going on. I agree, these people are medicated like zombies. I hope that such places are being "cleaned up" by advocacy. Psychiatric medication is not for non violent people who are simply retarded.
The lady I visited, was actually a schizophrenic who was mildly retarded and very sweet; except when she was smothering her children...Yes, she did need medication.
I have taken antidepressants, and I was able to focus better. (It's better to say you are mistaken instead of you are lying...lying implies purposeful dishonesty) Antipsychotics are another category, and are for more extreme conditions. The difficulty with these medications is that a person needs to be able to accurately represent their symptoms to a good psychiatrist.
Some perscription sleeping aides are more dangerous in side effects than antidepressants; I assume you are talking of an over the counter sleeping aide.

[Nax]

Virginia, I think everyone understand where you are coming from, however you are being what I would consider a radical. You are taking the most extreme cases and labeling them as the everyday. Yes people can be overmedicated, incorrectly medicated, or medicated when they dont need to be, but to take these as the majority is completely obserd.

To say that all of it is for naught and that everyone shouldnt have to surrender their "sanity" is also completely rediculous, if members of your family had been murdered by a schizo having a physchotic episode, or if you were crippled by a driver who blacked out from a seizure, or lived yourself in ways that were completely unsanitary and dangerous to you and others....

Also it is well and good to say that everyone can just "get over" stuff that is getting them down or anxious, but maybe you havent lived the last seven years of your life fighting the urge every day to off yourself, even when you feel good. When your not feeling good you are so depressed that you stop eating, and taking care of yourself, and sit in the dark being told how completely worthless you are and how no one could ever love a piece of **** like you. Maybe you havent spent the greater part of the decade convinced that people are out to get you, trying to stifle the voices in your head because they tell you to murder and rape and burn, and having dreams so vivid and horrifying that when u wake up you can recall even the most mind boggling of details of the people you just finished destroying, even though you are a good person with a good heart. I have, for seven years I have staoicly bared my burden and faught it with every tool I know of. Now I am seeking help because I feel that although it has been a valiant battle with many wins, I am slowly losing the war. To say that what I am doing is wrong in your eyes not only offends me but also shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding.

Be careful what you say and to whom about mental illness, not just online. You may offend people without meaning to, and luckily for you some of us who you may offend wont have an episode and think you are possessed by the devil and try to attack you, thanks to the same medications and psychiatry you are so adamently opposed to.

I am all for differing oppinions, but I do not want to have this thread degrade into a zealous rant and pointless arguement about the merrits of the system. Please refrain from continuing this discussion here, if you wish to start a thread "Is the Psychiatric System Effective" be my guest.

[virginiawang]

I am curious indeed. First, tell me where I come from, if you do know it. If not, do not make such assumptions.
Secondly, if I have offended you in any way, I am sure I do not know how I did it. I only want to let people know the effect of psychiatric medication in general. You can make your own choice however. As to the symptoms you mentioned in your post, I do not consider them serious. They're quite normal. You will have to choose to fight against them and live with them or to kill your mind. It is the reality. If you don't believe me, you can try medication of course.
If the situations you described had occurred, the one, sane or insane, can be dealt by law rather than by psychiatry. It is also absurd to confine a person and medicate him because he has a likelihood to hurt, either himself or other people. Then who will be the judge? Psychiatrists? No joking! Are they above God, who knows everything? I do not even know too much about the existence of God.
Before I close, let me tell all of you here that it is out of good will that I make known these facts. I am not radical. I am speaking of psychiatry in general.

Tell me where I come from. Do not brag about anything you do not know of.

[billl]

Virginia, "I know where you are coming from," is different than "I know where you come from." It means, "I understand your perspective." ie. I understand where your ideas are coming from.

Of course, Nax might have that wrong as well, but really, with that phrase, Nax was probably trying to say that he had read your posts and understood your points. It is a phrase meant to show an appreciation for your viewpoint, even though he might disagree.

[virginiawang]

I only wanted to let him know more about the outcome of receiving medications, before he jumps into that decision. I don't want to offend anyone. If he does not agree with me, that's OK.
Thank you, Billl.

[billl]

No problem, Virginia. You're a strong voice, and seem almost on your own in this thread at times. It looked to me like some of the others basically agreed with your sentiments *sometimes*, but maybe not as strongly. I think Nax is well-served by your very direct expressions of your concerns. It is a serious thing when we use technology to affect our very thoughts so directly, and it is important not to let the technology (or its purveyors) use us.

I think Nax's posts maybe reflect someone who is ready to be careful--and even critical, if the advice and treatment he receives are too automatic, haphazard, or immune to nuance, etc. I don't know, it is hard to describe the many ways something might seem "wrong" in such circumstances... I've read a lot of interesting posts, and with luck, Nax will meet with a physician who is aware of and concerned about these issues, and isn't just mechanically stamping out prescriptions according to some limited criteria, with no concern for the future.

[virginiawang]

I do not know how much all of you will understand me after you read my posts here, but I do not want to mislead you into thinking that I've been a woman to be bullied, either by psychiatrists or by other people. It is because I have a powerful lover. He will never allow anyone to treat me with disrespect. I believe only power matters in this world.
I have taken sleeping pills for more than ten years, and they do make me happy and give me the sensations I enjoy. Now they are given to me each month by my Hematology doctor. I cannot live without sleeping pills. I once read Confessions of an English Opium Eater, and I admired the author's talent tremendously. I love the way he wandered in his writing, describing the dreams he made when he ate opium. Since opium could give him such beautiful dreams and inspirations, I believe opium and drugs are much better than psychiatric pills. Drugs give people ideas like rainbows hanging over the sky, while psychiatric pills make people handicapped, living without a heart. Though I've never tried drugs, I believe sleeping pills are similar in its function to drugs, and I would like to try drugs if I have the chance in the future. However, due to my anemia, which is a fatal type, I do not think my body can take it. Anyway I have a high opinion about drugs, because they beautify thoughts. At least that's what I understand.

[soundofmusic]

Nax, you are quite right and I am sorry we have strayed so far from your point; you are correct that it would be better to open a new thread if people want to discuss the benefits and disadvantages of psychiatry.

I am amazed you have managed to live with these symptoms for so long and not lost all will to live. They are most certainly not normal; and no one should have to endure them on his own. You might want to keep a diary of your thoughts for yourself and your doctor; and differentiate between what you might fantasize about for distraction and what are common thoughts.

[virginiawang]

Be careful what you say and to whom about mental illness, not just online. You may offend people without meaning to, and luckily for you some of us who you may offend wont have an episode and think you are possessed by the devil and try to attack you, thanks to the same medications and psychiatry you are so adamently opposed to.

Hi Nax, You are partly right. I don't need a devil to come upon me because I am a devil myself. If anyone wants to attack me, please think again. A devil has many evil tricks.

[Jozanny]

Trying to broaden the discussion has been partially my fault, as this is a literary forum, not a group session at a partial hospital; I will, however, yield to Nax's wishes, allowing for one more comment:

I think virginia may see treatment through an authoritarianism that westerners are no longer subjected to, hence the disjunction, and now I think we should all shake hands and call it a day, unless we believe ourselves to be diagnostic experts, and Nax, try your search engine and look up MH forums. Try one and maybe you'll find more topical support.