Would a Sane Man...

[Nax]

Sanity.

Its something we deal with every single day. Recently I have had to address to myself whether or not I was in fact sane. A difficult thing to do, seeing as every single mind is different, and basically every personality trait be it benificial or negative can be a symptom of countless mental "illnesses" with the only diagnosis being that which you tell them, not the other way around.

Am I insane, or just unique? Are they the same thing? When does one stop being sane and different and become insane? Are we all insane just to varying degrees?

Is it defined by only negative symptoms? Can we not have these exact symptoms and still be "sane"? What if the illness has negative effects but also lots of positive ones and the person is still able to function but with a lessoned quality of life? What if rectifying the negative also destroys the positive?

We as intellectuals seem particularily prone to be stricken with mental illness, and it is believed many of the great minds before us too struggled with these before they were more widely known. Is insanity a bad thing? If it can be used to create works of art and literature, is it still appropriate to medicate?

These and many more questions have been playing on my brain for the last 7 years. The line between sanity and insanity is so blurred, and our minds so complex and varied that I have spent the greater part of a decade fighting the fact that I do in fact have a mental illness. The symptoms are now too many to deny any longer. On monday I will be going to a clinic, and the following week the GP. Time to put a name to these demons.

I would like here to discuss other peoples thoughts, experiences, advice etc on sanity, mental illness, or even lack there of.

[Nietzsche]

I'm not sure if you have to be crazy to be an intellectual, or if being an intellectual drives you crazy.

EDIT: anyone who knows anything about my screen name knows he went mad eventually. Also my idol Nikola Tesla was sort of disturbed.

[BienvenuJDC]

Are they even related?

Are there intellectuals who are not crazy? Maybe crazies that are no intellectuals?
What is the common relationship between the two....if any?

[OrphanPip]

Insanity isn't really an informative term. People can suffer from clinical depression, dementia, delusions, post-traumatic stress or paranoid schizophrenia and we can pinpoint symptoms, effects, and treatments. Just labeling someone as insane tells us nothing at all.

[Nax]

For intellectuals you sure do miss the point by miles when you want to dont ya.

[OrphanPip]

For intellectuals you sure do miss the point by miles when you want to dont ya.

Well I would have to have a working description of insanity before I could say if insanity is good or bad. However, working from the assumption that insanity is a mental disorder which causes harm to the individual suffering it in and of itself, as opposed to harm due to stigma. Then I would say insanity is in general bad, far more people suffering from bipolar disorder have harmed themselves and others from a lack of treatment than have created great works of art.

Edit: Although, I'll repeat that I object to the use of the word "insane".

[Gladys]

Perhaps psychological insanity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. If you (or others) consider yourself insane, I guess it is so.

I'm yet to meet someone insane, which may say something about me.

I read recently that a decade from now half the adult population will have suffered, at sometime, from mental illness. Surely mental illness is becoming part of the human condition?

[MrRegular]

Can I say that I think that Nietzsche is a perfect example of this 'intellect gone bad' syndrome?
Another example I have is myself, over the years I've become enchanted with several languages and scientific disiplines. This means a great deal of vocabularies to manage, sometimes even sharing the same words but in entirely different uses. It seems that the more I learn about the world in general, or the more information I have at my disposal, the harder it is for me to grasp any particular bit of it.
So it is no surprise to me that intellectuals are prone to mental illness because with so much information to be sifted through its easy for even the most perspicatious mind to flounder.
In regards to this being increasingly prevalent in modern society it must be pointed out that modern man requires a much higher rate of informational traffic in order to survive in our technological society.

[Jozanny]

Let me stress first that I do not have Orphan's scientific training, but agree with her that insanity is neither medically nor legally useful. Indeed, an insanity defense in a criminal trial is nearly impossible to win even if a hypothetical client has a known severe diagnosis, like a psychotic personality disorder.

I worked in MH, and developed an adjustment disorder, but I am not clinically unstable, and I tend to share Foucault's anger at psychiatry. A lot of it is crap trying to contain behavior that makes society uncomfortable. Poverty, if it is systemic, can make a mood disorder uncurable, as can permanent disability.

I do not mean to sound too forceful here, but not even the young should romanticize mental illness. Very few who manifest a serious disease can reintegrate into society, even less so than a smart disabled woman like myself. I realize it is a nice literary trope to toy with, but up close and personal, it breaks your heart.

[Lokasenna]

It's important to draw a distinction between mere eccentricity and actual mental illness. I suspect that to be a dedicated intellectual requires a certain degree of eccentricity in view of its rather esoteric nature.

Mental illness, however, is a serious problem. My family on my father's side seems to have a genetic predisposition towards it - a great-aunt, a great-uncle and two cousins of mine have all had to be permanently committed to mental instituions (one of the cousins, in particular, did terrible, terrible things and must never be allowed into society). Even beyond that, and though it has never been diagnosed, I am convinced (along with basically everyone else in my family) that my aunt and (to a slightly lesser degree) grandmother, when she was alive, were text-book sociopaths.

All this makes for a very turbulent family history - living with mental illness can be very, very hard.

[Heathcliff]

Everyone is different. Even the most ordinary looking people can be off their rocker on the inside. We're all a little odd, so what really is insane?

There are mental illnesses that don't qualify as insanity.
Schizophrenia (however you spell it), is that insanity?
Dementia?
Pyromania?

Also there is insane by social standards, medical, legal.

[Katy North]

I had a close family member who had a mental illness for the better part of a year for medical reasons.

She hurt most of my family, and nearly drove me insane because I was so used to her being right that, at the time, I listened to her and somewhat believed her accusations against friends and family. She's much better now, but her bout of insanity nearly permanently damaged my relationship with her. She too believed her insanity helped her art.

Being insane (in other words, mentally ill) is no laughing matter. Certainly there were some artists and authors who created beautiful works because of their insanity. However, there were also plenty of sane people who created impressive works of art. If you are ever tempted to persist in insane behavior because you think it makes you a better artist, please, go on the internet and write a list of some of the the hundreds of sane artists in the world... Dickens, Austen, Da Vinci, etc.

I would say the difference between insane and sane and different is this... if you answer yes to the following questions you might need mental help, and will experience no positive benefits by avoiding it. (this is from experience, I am not a psychologist).

Are you unable to function well outside your home?
Do you hurt people around you because you cannot control what you say or do?
Do you believe things are true that an overwhelming number of people say are false (for example, they say it's impossible to speak with dead relatives, but you know for a fact that you speak to your great aunt sally every morning before breakfast)?
Are you unusually paranoid about seeking psychological help?

[Jozanny]

Well Heath, not that I want to play pin the tail on the donkey in terms of the worst disease, but schizophrenia in some ways is more disabling than many congenital conditions I know of, and yes, people who have it are sick. I tried to date a co-worker who was a paranoid schizophrenic, and it was a mistake, as even when they are on meds, having a healthy relationship with someone that delusional is near impossible. They may be employable to various degrees, but without significant support they usually fail.

He and I ran into each other after the Institute dissolved, and he tried to ask me out again, and this time I took a hands off approach, and even the act of calling me to cancel caused him a heroic effort.

It is people like me who can be made *sick* by the system. We don't really have mental disease, but conditions are such that we become ill. Cases like mine are trickier for modern witch doctors with their check lists, and at the end of the day I will probably lose in the autonomy battle, and my landlord will no doubt get me placed, and the institutional staff will no doubt medicate me, eventually. It isn't something I look forward to, but some of my friends with cerebral palsy have been dying off in ways that are unpleasant, depress me, and I don't want to experience, but I also know I cannot attempt to kill myself, so I guess the best I can do is cross my fingers and hope fate gives me a break when the time comes. I have been very strong and endured too much, in my book, but I am getting tired of holding up with whatever stoicism I've managed up to this point.

[Nax]

I suppose insane is a too strong a term. I should have said mental illness, but I merely was trying to keep the terms open as not to limit the discussion.

To be honest I really have no doubt that I have a serious condition, and now I am just taking the appropriate steps to protect myself and others before it gets too severe. Uptil this point I have been able to control many of the symptoms to a point, though I have felt myself beginnign to slip the last few months, posssibly due to some of the emotional hardships recently. As more symptoms have begun arrising and not ebating as I had hoped, I would rather do something now while I am of a stable mind.

It has taken me this long because it is very difficult even in your own mind to distinguish where the illness stops and you begin. You wonder, am I sick or is this just who I am? Which is why so many people go untreated, and eventually get so much worse.

[Jozanny]

Nax: As the saying goes, a little education can be a dangerous thing, and I am fully aware that my knowledge of my own symptomology is not a cure. I am just a b----- and a stubborn one at that, and have held off my landlord for a long time, and in fact I have decided to sue them, which actually might, for me, be good therapy .

But if there are things happening and you do not wish to self-medicate, hey, like Dr. House says, half the country is on some form of Zolcroft, so, if you have insurance to cover some clinical visits, use it.

Some conditions can and do improve, although with depression I'd say that depends on how long the person has sustained a depressive state and to what degree it does not interfere with function. I am a bit wordy here despite my aches, and I apologize, but this is a topic I know about, and as a former advocate, I care about it as well.