Can Literature Civilize?

[stlukesguild]

"Can" literature cultivate or civilize? I suppose literature "can" do a great many things (good or bad). The question may be "should" it be expected to civilize... is that its purpose? And does it always do so? In another thread the question of reader's empathy arises and I find that I greatly agree with Anna Quindlen as she wrote:

Books are the means to immortality: Plato lives forever, as do Dickens, and Dr. Seuss, Soames Forsyte, Jo March, Scrooge, Anna Karenina, and Vronsky. Over and over again Heathcliffe wanders the moor searching for his Cathy. Over and over again Ahab fights the whale.Through them we experience other times, other places, other lives. We manage to become much more than our own selves. The only dead are those who grow sere and shriveled within, unable to step outside their own lives and into those of others. Ignorance is death. A closed mind is a catafalque.

This sort of empathy... the willingness to experience other lives... is perhaps something understood by readers... but one questions whether reading inspires this empathy... or the empathy inspires the desire for reading. One also doubts whether this sort of "empathy" results in a degree of civilizing of the individual.

[blazeofglory]

In point of literature does not necessarily civilize or cultivate us; at times if literature imparts moral education it seems to civilization to a considerable extent. But literature at times become expressions of a barbarian society and it becomes indifferent to moral issues and just express the culture of that society.

In point of fact literature must be simply reflective or expressive of the land it is written about.

[aquarium444]

Can good literature be used to civilize those unruly masses? Can it educate and tame those wild brutes whose “dull eyes see nothing but their own ungodly woe” or is the finest literature just for those few who have palates developed enough to enjoy its fine pleasures?

I’m thinking maybe in the style of Ruskin who taught and lectured the lower orders in the realms of art, not so that they would necessarily produce themselves, but so that they could at least be taught to really see.

Teaching morality through literature is nothing new of course, but I’m not talking about imposing morality on the hordes, I’m merely thinking about enlightening and opening, and even raising, the minds of the barbarian blind, by the mysteries and wonders of finer literature.

Can it be done? Should it be done? Or is it better to let the scary ruffians be?

School is used to control the masses, but unruly or uncivilized people are mostly people who are exposed to poverty and violence (Note: not the correct word). We are all placed in the same education system and forced to adapt the best we can. There is no such thing as a barbarian in our civilization. A barbarian in the past is a completely different individual and it has nothing to do with people in our society who become aggressive. The question has nothing to do with literature.

more....

This is a barbarian. You live in a culture that has a totally different standard and a different set of laws than what we have. Killing or survival is looked upon a something honorable, and held in high esteem, etc. Totally different concept than what we have in our society.

more....

What I think that you are suggesting is that can the people who do not respect literature, be converted. Yes, it might be possible but you probably can't force them to enjoy the palate unless you add something different. Anyway, that might happen naturally over a long period of time, and they themselves might have to create their own literature or else it might not be possible and the answer is no.

Look at how much culture has changed over the different eras. It does change. It isn't that friendly toward literature at this time. What the real answer could be is what is the best variety of readings that allow a person to enjoy literature to the extent that nothing at all matters.

last....

Drugs creates the modern pseudo barbarian and for some reason the use of developed language is missing. It is hard and lonely work to read literature, and to talk about it is now obviously impossible. Anything can happen and nobody would know the difference. Try not to kill yourself by eating too much. It is just a bunch of nosy people worship these days. Good writing was something to get up for. It is good that it is finished, nobody deserves it.

[JonathanLockely]

I would say yes and no.

You bring one of the great unwashed into a civilized society, there is a chance that literature can civilize him with the proper environment.

You however cannot take Literature to uncivilized people. It is not the equivalent of Prometheus bringing fire to man. We might consider literature essential, but that is only in reference to how many things we take for granted.

There are numerous references throughout history of this happening mostly driven by that great changer Christianity. Where the bible is brought to the masses, two things happen. they reject it, and wage a terrible war against encroaching Christianity, or they accept it, but it doesn't bring civilization. as seen in modern African nations where they have interpreted it into witch hunts and sorcery.

[aquarium444]

If I was civilized I might not be able to appreciate the little classics that I read. I might not be in awe of the details.

[Virgil]

In point of literature does not necessarily civilize or cultivate us; at times if literature imparts moral education it seems to civilization to a considerable extent. But literature at times become expressions of a barbarian society and it becomes indifferent to moral issues and just express the culture of that society.

In point of fact literature must be simply reflective or expressive of the land it is written about.

Absolutely!! Perfectly said and I can't say it any better. What about war novels and jingoistic literature and literature that justifies slavery and what not? Literature, art in general, stems from the values of the writer and his society.

Five stars for you Blaze for the perfect comment!!

[LitNetIsGreat]

Absolutely!! Perfectly said and I can't say it any better. What about war novels and jingoistic literature and literature that justifies slavery and what not? Literature, art in general, stems from the values of the writer and his society.

Certainly art is a product of the author's social circumstance - to a large degree (wasn't that Marx's position anyway?) and that literature can do many other things, like forward propaganda or corrupt as you suggest too, but I was just interested in hearing thoughts about the use of literature as a "civilizing" tool. I'm not personally for or against it at all, as I said (apart from the want to improve literacy which is my job) I'm merely forwarding a question or position which I thought was interesting enough to forward.

Personally, literature only has to do one thing for me and that is to give pleasure, it doesn't have to serve any other purpose except to fill my life with beauty and wonder which is arts ultimate aim if it has to have one.

However, in terms of "civilizing" I have seen rough kids mellowed by Mozart and eyes light to the wonder of a few lines by Keats, to know that, at least as one poster said, if not to "civilize" at least literature can cultivate, broaden and fill the minds of those who immediately reject it.

[Griffith]

No, literature cannot civilize plebeian scum. Even the rabble that read books today - an insignificant parcel of the world population - just read degenerated morons like Kafka or commercial books like The Da vinci Code or Twilight.

[Drkshadow03]

No, literature cannot civilize plebeian scum. Even the rabble that read books today - an insignificant parcel of the world population - just read degenerated morons like Kafka or commercial books like The Da vinci Code or Twilight.

Yes, we wouldn't want them reading Kafka or the likes of The Da Vinci Code or Twilight books!

Did you seriously just throw out the term plebeian scum? I mean I know Neely, St. Luke, and company like to joke about how everyone thinks they're elitist, but jeez . . .

[Virgil]

Certainly art is a product of the author's social circumstance - to a large degree (wasn't that Marx's position anyway?) and that literature can do many other things, like forward propaganda or corrupt as you suggest too, but I was just interested in hearing thoughts about the use of literature as a "civilizing" tool. I'm not personally for or against it at all, as I said (apart from the want to improve literacy which is my job) I'm merely forwarding a question or position which I thought was interesting enough to forward.

Personally, literature only has to do one thing for me and that is to give pleasure, it doesn't have to serve any other purpose except to fill my life with beauty and wonder which is arts ultimate aim if it has to have one.

However, in terms of "civilizing" I have seen rough kids mellowed by Mozart and eyes light to the wonder of a few lines by Keats, to know that, at least as one poster said, if not to "civilize" at least literature can cultivate, broaden and fill the minds of those who immediately reject it.

But haven't people been inspired to war and violence with literature? I'm sure there are plenty of examples. The ones that come to mind are the Arthurian tales of knighthood, where men will challenge each other to duels to the death over honor as delineated in the tales. Literature is a mixed bag when it comes to "civilizing." What it does is project the values of a society. Knights fighting to the death we today would consider uncivilized, but in there day that was the civilized thing to do.

[Drkshadow03]

But haven't people been inspired to war and violence with literature? I'm sure there are plenty of examples. The ones that come to mind are the Arthurian tales of knighthood, where men will challenge each other to duels to the death over honor as delineated in the tales. Literature is a mixed bag when it comes to "civilizing." What it does is project the values of a society. Knights fighting to the death we today would consider uncivilized, but in there day that was the civilized thing to do.

Also according to some literary critics, like Terry Eagleton, pride in one's literature and culture played a crucial part in British Imperialism. After all, those barbarians didn't produce Shakespeare!

Hence, why the language of this thread is extremely problematic, and that's putting it lightly.

[BienvenuJDC]

Can literature lead a civilization from being civilized?