disappointed because of native literature :(

[Veva]

Well, I am not much of a patriot in reading fiction. In fact, I read what I had to at secondary school and then I moved quite swiftly to worldwide and well-known novels, usually in English (simply because of the lack of translations).
But I decided to give it a go this week. I took up the bestselling author of my nationality of 2009 and this is where it went off to the deep end
I am a Chuck Palahniuk fan (this means that you can't really surprise me), but what I read made me feel a little ashamed... I don't know what to make of a novel, whose main character is a male prostitute, indulges in intercourse with chucks of women for 200 pages, then starts taking hormones and has a baby at the end.... is this THE BEST my nation can do?
Gosh I know there are only 6millions of us, but this is what we read the most last year... where is the core of the problem? I think I may give up on national literature once and for all

[Amoxcalli]

Well it would help if we knew where you were from. There are good novels being written in almost every language, so there should be an author out there that suits your taste.

[aquarium444]

I don't know who would want to read about that. I'm from Canada and I'm not sure if there are very many horror writers here. I should try to find out. There are a couple of good writers of the past from America, and there are a few other interesting authors of that genre, but probably none from Canada.

If that is the best that your country can do however, than you should try to write something. It sounds like a depressing story for sure.

[Veva]

I was thinking where are all the ambitious young writers, that are so omni-present in Europe? But probably we are just too fond of watching TV
I decided not to write the name of the country {not to spread infamy}... but for the record, most would probably call us eastern Europe....

[mal4mac]

Why would you judge your country & culture by what's on the best-seller list? I'd have taken a flight to a death clinic in Switzerland long before now if I did that. The soul of a country is to be found in its *best* writers not the current, trendy writers.

[kiki1982]

Join the club. In the Flemish department of Dutch literature (which is my 'native' literature) there is also not something worth reading. In fact, I'd say, there has never been anyhing properly written or worth reading. They somehow got to writing in French (a few won the Nobel Prize like Maeterlinck) or they thought they were great, but were in fact utter sh*t, the best example being Hugo Claus who was every year nominated for the Nobel Prize by the Flemish camp but of course never won it although the illusion stayed alive. Fortunately, he has died. Sorry. Seems a hard thing to say, but I read one of his works and never again. Poetry tends to be better.

They have either got stuck in 'the poor Flemish farmer oppressed by the nasty French speaking aristocrat' or in the 'poor Flemish farmer' mode, or maybe 'the nasty oppressing Catholic Church', but then badly written. The modern authors have moved away from that a little, but now they cannot put a proper sentence together. Maybe the last writer who actually surprised me, but still stayed with the small-minded agricultural Flemish story, was Ernest Claes. And he died in the 60s. One of the so-called greatest writers, Felix Timmermans (revered by many), wrote in sentences SVO, like a school child. Please, I mean, it is insufferable! Tey wouldn't even accept that in an exam above 12 years of age (at best)!

That is not to say that there is nothing great in Dutch, from the Netherlands then. But they were comfortable with their identity. People like Couperus (turn of the century), Emants (a little earlier), Mulisch (still alive), are great writers. I am not sure about really contemporary, but the Dutch were definitely better at writing.

[blazeofglory]

You seem to have a kind prejudice against your native writers and what got you this is something understandable

[Amoxcalli]

Join the club. In the Flemish department of Dutch literature (which is my 'native' literature) there is also not something worth reading.

I strongly disagree. I assume you've read Claus' magnum opus The Sorrow of Belgium? If you haven't, you haven't read Claus. If you have, however, you must see why Claus is such a terrific writer. His style is great, his plot, while not very exciting or action-packed, is very well-constructed and his characters are as round as they get. It's also quite witty at times. I mostly admire the novel for its complete panorama of Flemish life during WWII, however.

As for contemporary Flemish writers, Verhulst is excellent. I'm not a big fan of De helaasheid der dingen, but Godverdomse dagen op een godverdomse bol is a unique experience. Herman Brusselmans isn't bad either, although I find that if you've read one novel, you've read them all. Not to mention Peter Terrin.

But really, I'm at loss as to how you can dislike Louis Paul Boon and Willem Elsschot. They're both very good writers, easily on par, if not better than Emants and the likes.


I'm not too unhappy with Dutch literature. It's not quite the level of Russian, German, French, Italian, Spanish or English literature, but there's enough good work being written to keep me reading.

[kiki1982]

Hugo Claus can't write for the death of him. His sentences are too short and he dwells on WWII that is already past its peak for ages in most other literatures including German. In 1983 he was still writing about WWII and collaboration when Saramago was writing more imaginative stuff in Portugal (and he is more than 80 now so he lived through WWII or under a dictatorship). Louis Paul Boon used to dwell on socialist issues 'to kick the rich conscience', but worked it into another imaginative shape every time. So did Elsschot. In the whole of Claus's work there is only depressing oppressive bourgeois small-minded Flemish concern. Way out of date.

I grant you Louis Paul Boon and Williem Elsschot (very imagnative and original language + plot).

You talk about Verhulst and Brusselmans. Brusselmans is the single most despicable insult to literature whatsoever. And I include Dan Brown. Even he can write better than Brusselmans, and that is saying something. Brusselmans... Well, any writer who manages to write books each of the same size; any author who delivers 2 books every year has an issue as one cannot produce quality at that rate; any author who cannot write anything else but ventilate his own anger at the world without an interesting story, has an issue with himself. The reason he sells I would think is because there are so many people who feel the same: they don't dare to complain and are eaten up with rage inside.

Verhulst cannot write either, but only technically. If he would only get a good flow in his work, it would be ok. Like Verbeeke. On my yearly trip to Antwerp to the great bookfare I picked up her debut Sleep. The topic was imaginative and original, but her writing (the execution) was just crap. Sentences too short, word-use not elaborate. An author is an author. A painter whose paint peels off his paintings, is a bad painter, no matter how great his paintings look at first. An author who does not manage to produce a work with a good flow, interesting story, and proper word use is a bad author.

Leo Pleysier I used to like, but that is also the same small-minded Flemish nature. When you have read one, you have read them all. It all boils down to the same. You do not have that in German, not in French, not in English. Not in Russian. Every writer there has his issue and writes about it. Goethe writes differently than Kafka, and differently than Mann. Dumas wrote differently than Hugo, differently than Nothomb (although there seems to be an issue with Jews and psychological problems in youngsters in the 90s). English I don't need to illustrate. It starts in Flanders (before there was nothing! Everything in French!) with Conscience who writes the first work in Flemish in 1831. From then on, there is prose about the Flemish farmer: Cyriel Buysse writes about the poor Flemih farmer oppressed by the French aristocrat; Stijn Streuvels idem; Walschap has a problem with the Catholic Church and Flemish bourgeoisie who feels too posh for the poor Flemish farmer; Ernest Claes writes about the farmer; Timmermans idem. Then comes the first world war and the poor farmer whose land is destroyed and the crisis. Then comes WWII and the evil collaboration together with the colony and its independence. The result is an endless dwelling on poor Flanders that was saddled with collaborators.

I'd say Boon, Elsschot (, Daine) are the only writers of prose worth noting. Boon because his forms were original and because he was rampant socialist to the detriment of the establshment . Elsschot beause he got out of the 'poor Flemish farmer' mode (as the only one until the 20s). Daine because he was one of the two representatives of magic realism. Very imaginative. And properly written. List Conscience too, because he was a good romantic writer, although he could not get out of poor Flemish mode after his first work, but he had at least a reason as that was the reality. The others wrote way after that. To me, he is worth Dumas.

Fortunately, Flemish literature is slowly getting out of it, but now they can't technically write and they seem to think that a sentence is SVO only. Commas, dashes, semi-colons, do they überhaupt exist? What are they for??

Ever wondered why there are so few translations to be found of Flemish works?

[Amoxcalli]

While I think Claus is still a matter of taste (I like his usage of short sentences, for example. Ever since reading Cicero, I've preferred short, simple sentences in clear prose over long and elaborate sentences), I'll grant you Brusselmans. He's the Flemish equivalent of Kluun, except quite funny and without all the self-pity.

On the other hand, Verhulst's latest novel (Godverdomse dagen op een godverdomse bol) has absolutely nothing to do with Flanders. You may want to read that one, then. It's not even similar to De helaasheid der dingen, which I assume you didn't like, so it may be worthwhile to check out.

On Slaap, I agree, that was an awful novel, but I'd be hesitant to call it literature as such. It's the stuff best-selling lists are made of, to be fair.

Thing is, with literature in your native tongue is that you're exposed to ALL of it (if you live in the country where your native country, that is), not just the great works. There's bound to be plenty of mediocre Russian, French and English literature too. In a country with only 6 million native speakers of the Flemish language, the poor literature is just more prevalent. Book stores have shelves to fill.

[Kafka's Crow]

I read Cees Nooteboom many,many years ago. I was impressed by Rituals and found it different from any other book I had read before.

As far as Eastern Europe is concerned, these countries are coming out of the Soviet influence and trying to regain identity under a very strong American influence. You can't expect much in the way of great literature when nations are so strongly influenced by other cultures that their own identity is stifled by them.

[Lumiere]

Best-seller lists rarely reflect the best any country has to offer.

[Griffith]

All modern literature is manure. It´s not a regional problem.

[kiki1982]

Sorry, my computer refused to connect yesterday...

While I think Claus is still a matter of taste (I like his usage of short sentences, for example. Ever since reading Cicero, I've preferred short, simple sentences in clear prose over long and elaborate sentences), I'll grant you Brusselmans. He's the Flemish equivalent of Kluun, except quite funny and without all the self-pity.

I doubt whether Cicero wrote short sentences. At least his Orationes do not permit me to think so. He does ask a lot of kind of short questions for rhetorics' sake, but the rest of his normal sentences at least count three lines in html each (in Latin). For a normal page with normal margins that is at least 6. That said, there are sentences in Latin that take up whole pages... One can of course translate it differently, but there should normally not be any need to do so.

On the other hand, Verhulst's latest novel (Godverdomse dagen op een godverdomse bol) has absolutely nothing to do with Flanders. You may want to read that one, then. It's not even similar to De helaasheid der dingen, which I assume you didn't like, so it may be worthwhile to check out.

I might have a look next time I am in Belgium. In germany I cannot get any Dutch, so that is out of the question. Although, I could try Amazon I suppose.

Thing is, with literature in your native tongue is that you're exposed to ALL of it (if you live in the country where your native country, that is), not just the great works. There's bound to be plenty of mediocre Russian, French and English literature too. In a country with only 6 million native speakers of the Flemish language, the poor literature is just more prevalent. Book stores have shelves to fill.

That I agree with, yet I suppose it is a meter for how good/popular certain things are when they get translated. It is strange, but not a lot has been translated from Flemish. There are more Dutch writers proportionally who have made the international lists than Flemish (unless they wrote in French). Ever wondered why?

@Kafka's Crow: I read that too! Great book. Although I don't rmember any thing of it because I had only 2 weeks per book in uni excluding any other great big course books and things for course work. I might read it again some time. Nooteboom is Dutch too and seems to be quite popular outside of the Netherlands (looked on my cover ).

That said though, Flemish poetry (at least in the past) was much better than their prose ill ever be.

[Amoxcalli]

I doubt whether Cicero wrote short sentences. At least his Orationes do not permit me to think so. He does ask a lot of kind of short questions for rhetorics' sake, but the rest of his normal sentences at least count three lines in html each (in Latin). For a normal page with normal margins that is at least 6. That said, there are sentences in Latin that take up whole pages... One can of course translate it differently, but there should normally not be any need to do so.

Exactly what I meant. His sentences are so long they are a drag to read. Even in the original Latin, which is supposed to be a rather compact language, his sentences seem endless.

Not that I have dislike of long sentences in general, but I feel that a writer doesn't have to needlessly tie otherwise short sentences together to form one long sentence. I suppose it's personal taste more than anything though.

That I agree with, yet I suppose it is a meter for how good/popular certain things are when they get translated. It is strange, but not a lot has been translated from Flemish. There are more Dutch writers proportionally who have made the international lists than Flemish (unless they wrote in French). Ever wondered why?

Nope, and to be fair, I wasn't aware of that statistic either. I was merely saying that despite everything, Flanders does have a handful of good literary authors. Although I don't know where the OP is from exactly, I'd assume there's a handful of good authors from his/her native country as well. I simply can't imagine how a population of more than a million people can fail to produce at least one good writer.

Also, number of translations aren't a great way to measure the level of literary activity in a country. Iran and China, for example, both have a lengthy and wealthy literary tradition, but are rarely translated, mostly because they do not write the western 'novel', but instead have their own disciplines in literature. Same, to a lesser extent, can be said of Indian and Indonesian literature.