Can a Christian be a Buddhist? Vice-versa?

[NikolaiI]

The Buddha's way is quite specific.

The other religions are too, and have not merged over 2 millennia. That's why there are few Buddho - Christans, or Christiano-Hindus. It is not useful. Someone who tries to be so, is not a Buddhist, and is not a Christian. They are something else.

No one is a Buddhist or Christian.



...

All is one. The forms of this world are but forms of light. --- at first there's no conception of this... first it must be understood that they are shadow, that this world is Maya, that it is nothing. But then you realize that it is light itself. As Lama Surya Das said, the shadows themselves are light.

I spoke the Great Mantra, Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha because it is reflective of the truth - which is beyond everything. There's no real way to say it better than that, that it's beyond everything. In the highest consciousness, there is no coming or going. In the traceless enlightenment, there is no limited existence, all existence is boundless and infinite. We cannot get there by our senses only, but knowledge of that reality is within us all, latent, involved (as opposed to evolved).

There is only one way really, and all ways relfect this one way in some degree. All of reality is a matrix of information, and we exist and know things within this matrix. The matrix exists in a sort of energy field which may be called Divine Energy. At this point I know I lose you, but know - there is only one reality; the only question is the most perfect way of describing it. There is a completely hamony to the whole picture; a harmony of being, of existence. All has its place in this harmony; both peace and stagnation, both growth and decline, both joy and suffering, both illusion and truth.

Currently we are under the illusion of separateness. This is but one aspect of the coordination, of the harmony. With all the force of our life, we will one day experience pure love - boundless light, joy. This is the truth which is the source of existence. It begs to be known, sung, shared. It is the pure existence which is the original existence. It is always everywhere, and it cannot be destroyed. It is within everyone (and everything) and it can be accessed and used in a positive, healing, and enlightening way. Enlightenment is to know that all is this existence, and to encourage its evoltion in all beings and forms. It is to know oneself as one with this pure existence.

The spiritual path is therefore the cultivation of this essence and power of healing and transformation. It is the journey from ignorance to light, from illusion to truth. In the beginning of the journey, we feel helpless and forced by external events, which we come to consider our fate by the myth of karma. In an intermediate stage we realize the existence of another dimension, in which we exist. We are no longer characters in someone else's story, but we are the author of the story; we created the whole story and we are the author. We are the source of our own existence, the God of our own universe.

This is but one step along the path, however. And the whole path is too extensive for any one person. Yet there are certain steps along it which one may experience, and having done so knowledge is gained that they are universal and necessary for all who want to be free of all anarthas, all aparadhas.

And as to your main concern, when you attempt to preserve what you think is the purity of the distinction, you are really only straining your eyes to see forms in the dark. In truth, all existences are one, indivisible, inviolable, pure, divine existence. That existence is beyond everything, again - it is beyond all knowledge, perception, it is also beyond time.

I'm not trying to change you, remain a Buddhist it's fine. But you shouldn't restrict yourself even within that limited framework! Chant Namo Amituofo, Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, The Medicine Buddha Mantra, and any other mantra which calls you.

The existence you are trying to perceive is what I have described. I am speaking the Dharma and describing the source of reality in a true way; for your benefit and for all. I am nothing but I am a speck at the feet of Mila, of Rumi; great teachers of the source of existence, which is in essence pure love and joy. My central teaching is that you should pursue enlightenment through awareness, embodying the traits of fearlessness and tolerance or patience.

[Paulclem]

we feel helpless and forced by external events, which we come to consider our fate by the myth of karma.

This is a misconception.

From you posts I don't accept many of your references and attitudes to Buddhism.

You know when I was in school we played a game, the teachers there showed us, which was illustrative: there is a message, and one person passes it on to another, and that person tells what they heard, and so on, and by the time it goes through even a short number of people, it becomes incredibly garbled.

I think this denotes your attitude. It's not a problem for me, but I do accept the teachings whereas you clearly do not. That's ok.

Anyway, we're off the point, unless what you have posted represents your idea of what a Christian - Buddhist would be like.

I think it is neither. It won't be recognised by either Buddhists or Christians. Where is God, judgement, heaven and hell? Your idea of Karma is a misconception, and where is the discernible path of teachings that lead to Enlightment. If this has meaning for you, then fine, but it will not appeal to a Christian or a Buddhist.

[NikolaiI]

Paul - Buddha = God = pure love = infinite light, infinite joy, infinite peace = one reality.

There is only one reality - there is one source of the universe, of existence.

I am surprised that you are being dogmatic. You should really reassess that and try to come to a state of openness, and not be rigid, dogmatic, (keyword: attached) in your thought. If you had more openness in what you say, I would ask you: if you saw an infinite joy, bliss, and peace, what would you do? Would you say anything other than that? If you saw infinite Buddha-fields, Buddha-lands, which consist of an alternating pattern between Buddha, and a Lotus - Buddha, whose cells, so to speak, are innumerable Lotuses, and those Lotuses themselves, whose cells are innumerable Buddhas; and you saw it to be the source of everything, the real nature of all forms, not just sentient beings, then would you not speak it? You saw that the infinite truth which you saw was always present, everywhere...

Duality is illusion, Paul, and non-duality is the reality...

Of course... they say... preaching is not important, and it is important to live it... as Lao Tzu said, those who know do not speak... and in truth - there is nothing which needs to be said, or done... the infinite source I am speaking of is always present, everywhere... But what I am telling you will take you to the Buddha, to the Other Shore. Just chant, meditated with sincerity. You will make it.

There's a line from a song I was just listening to, "Now that I know," by Devendra...

"Never buy that freedom just ain't free."

[Paulclem]

I don't buy it Nikolai.

If there's no more to be said on the question of whether a Christian can be a Buddhist and vice-versa, then I'm done. It has been interesting.

[NikolaiI]

What don't you buy, when I am telling you you will reach enlightenment? Ought I lie to you and say you are an ordinary being? You are a Buddha, not bound by Maya. Your body is a Buddha body - your cells are millions of gods, innumerable pure lands. Your cells themselves are of the same nature as the source of all existence: Buddha, Lotus, the essence of the Heart Sutra... Ought I lie to you and say you are bound? You are not bound. Ought I lie to you and say that anything exists except for infinite peace, power, bliss and knowledge? The illusion is just the opposite of the reality, but they are reflections of each other. You don't buy it - I get that. But I will not change who I am to suit you. Within the center of every living being - indeed every form - is the source of existence. That source is infinite peace, power, bliss and knowledge. If you develop faith in the Buddha, actually develop it, and develop love for his name, and repeat it with devotion and sincerity, then you will receive all of the healing... then you will be completely healed and be able to heal others... but if you just act sullenly toward people who are telling you about the healing power of Buddha - if you stick to your guns that I am wrong about it all, about the fact that there is an infinite healing power - because you think I am speaking something different from Buddhism... then, well, that is your prerogative. But perhaps you are not really seeing what I am saying clearly. Try to open your mind and just understand; there is an infinite healing power. It can be accessed by repeating the Buddha's name, the Medicine Buddha, in the form of Tayata Om Bekandze Bekandze Maha Bekandze Randze Samungate Svaha; Amitabha Buddha, in the form of Namo Amituofo; Shakyamuni, by repeating the name of the Lotus sutra, Myoho Renge Kyo. If you do this - first if you purify your heart, and then if you do this with sincerity and devotion, then you will attain enlightenment, realization of your Buddha-nature. If you think that what I have just said has any tinge of materialism, or falseness, that is of course your right. But that holds up no water, Paul. I have said nothing false to you.

[Reiki]

[From my own perspective]

We are all expressions of god's love manifested in physical form and extensions of the oneness that is the universe. As such a Christian can be a Buddhist and vice-versa because they are already one. Fighting with one another over whose way of worshipping god is better or fighting over whose god is better is therefore pretty goofy. If you believe in a higher power and choose to worship in some way, picking a tradition of worship to follow is basically a technicality since there is only one god and god loves us all EQUALLY as extensions of itself. If we could learn to just respect, acknowledge and accept one another the world would be a much happier place.

Namaste
Melissa

PS - love the avatar by the way, it is a perfect expression of love and compassion.

[Paulclem]

[From my own perspective]

We are all expressions of god's love manifested in physical form and extensions of the oneness that is the universe. As such a Christian can be a Buddhist and vice-versa because they are already one. Fighting with one another over whose way of worshipping god is better or fighting over whose god is better is therefore pretty goofy. If you believe in a higher power and choose to worship in some way, picking a tradition of worship to follow is basically a technicality since there is only one god and god loves us all EQUALLY as extensions of itself. If we could learn to just respect, acknowledge and accept one another the world would be a much happier place.

Namaste
Melissa

PS - love the avatar by the way, it is a perfect expression of love and compassion.

There are significant differences between Christians and Buddhists -the first being that Buddhists don't believe in a creator God. As such the idea of being expressions of God's love has no meaning for us.

I don't think you'll find any Buddhists fighting over which God is better. I do agree that respect should be paid to any valid religion.

[BienvenuJDC]

I do agree that respect should be paid to any valid religion.

It would be great if we ALL had a better respect for each other...and all of our beliefs?

[Paulclem]

It would be great if we ALL had a better respect for each other...and all of our beliefs?

Yes. My own view is that some of the beliefs and aims of religions are incompatible, but this should not not be a barrier to tolerance. I think this is real tolerance, and more useful than attempts to reconcile the differences that do exist with speculations that we're all following the same God/ path etc.
I can accept that we believe different things, BienvenuJDC, and I have no problem with that.

[Scented Letters]

I would have to say, in my opinion, it's not exactly without issue... as both teach different and opposing views in many cases (example; reincarnation vs. heaven/earth paradise.) But, I would also say that it depends on the depth that a person delves into the Buddhist religion whilst still being Christian.

One could say taking some of the Buddhist teachings and incorporating them into your daily life could be very beneficial -- to choose the ones that do not go against your own Christian views. Buddhism, while having many differences, also has similarities -- peaceable, being one. However, by doing so and selecting what you want and what you do not, I think you couldn't call yourself a Buddhist, per se, but a person who enjoys some of the Buddhist mind-set; a "zen" lifestyle, and tries to practice them for self betterment. (Such as, say, moderation, compassion, mindfulness, non-extremism, non-materialism.. what you may.)

[NikolaiI]

[From my own perspective]

We are all expressions of god's love manifested in physical form and extensions of the oneness that is the universe. As such a Christian can be a Buddhist and vice-versa because they are already one. Fighting with one another over whose way of worshipping god is better or fighting over whose god is better is therefore pretty goofy. If you believe in a higher power and choose to worship in some way, picking a tradition of worship to follow is basically a technicality since there is only one god and god loves us all EQUALLY as extensions of itself. If we could learn to just respect, acknowledge and accept one another the world would be a much happier place.

Namaste
Melissa

PS - love the avatar by the way, it is a perfect expression of love and compassion.

I agree completely. And when we can be in that state of mind, then everything is trasnformational.

[Paulclem]

Another theme a friend of mine brought up today on this issue was the attitudes of Christians and Buddhists to the nature of existence.

In Christianity there are lots of references to the eternal -creator, life, love, eternal bliss in heaven etc.

Buddhism is different on this point too The nature of the universe is constant change or impermanence.

I just thought he made an interesting point.

[NikolaiI]

Another theme a friend of mine brought up today on this issue was the attitudes of Christians and Buddhists to the nature of existence.

In Christianity there are lots of references to the eternal -creator, life, love, eternal bliss in heaven etc.

Buddhism is different on this point too The nature of the universe is constant change or impermanence.

I just thought he made an interesting point.

On one hand it appears different but on another view it is the same. Even opposites have their union. That is my point, that the distinction or division between Buddhist and Christian is yet another snare of duality. And that within enlightenment - wholeness - that duality also becomes a unity.

[NikolaiI]

I should also like to point out that there is no such thing as either Buddhism or Christianity. As you say all is in change. They are not things but occurrences. Arisings. They are just part of the dream. All of our ideas are like that, and there are literally thousands of layers between us and truth. The funny thing is though... and this is kind of a related to instant enligthenment is that... they are really nothing... so it's so many layers of illusion, it all can be vanished in an instant. I bet if you meet a very, very advanced Buddhist master, one who has maybe glimpsed or realized non-duality, he will tell you this!

Enlightenment is realization of non-duality. Buddhist and Christian are yet again forms which are limiting. They are, it is true, the starting point... just as all forms are... they're a beginning. But they're not the existence. And if you follow Buddha Shakyamuni, if you become attracted to the Heart of Wisdom Sutra, then you'll come to the mantra which the whole sutra praises: Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha...

So the ultimate reality.... the One reality, that is beyond, beyond everything. All of that, all of forms, which are emptiness, all of it vanishes... vanishes in an instant.

If you are in that state... you would not even think of returning to labeling something Christian or Buddhist. The reality is beyond, completely beyond those.

[Babbalanja]

I should also like to point out that there is no such thing as either Buddhism or Christianity. As you say all is in change. They are not things but occurrences. Arisings. They are just part of the dream. All of our ideas are like that, and there are literally thousands of layers between us and truth. The funny thing is though... and this is kind of a related to instant enligthenment (sic) is that... they are really nothing... so it's so many layers of illusion, it all can be vanished in an instant. I bet if you meet a very, very advanced Buddhist master, one who has maybe glimpsed or realized non-duality, he will tell you this!

This demonstrates the similarity not only between Christianity and Buddhism, but among all religions: the emphasis on affirming things that can't be understood. The literal meaning (if any exists) of this word-salad is beside the point. What Nik is saying is that anyone can believe something rational and logical: it takes great faith to believe things that are irrational.

The defining cant of contemporary Christians is John 3:16, which makes believers in the 21st century affirm that people survive their physical deaths. Whether they believe that this is literally true (that is, true in the same way that the statement "Albany is the capital of New York" is true) is irrelevant. They are saying that their faith is strong enough to make them affirm something irrational.

Buddhists don't believe in a creator God like Christians do. However, Buddhism is still a religion because it obliges believers to make statements about things they can't rationally understand. If enlightenment consists of repeating meaningless mantras like "all is one" and "your cells are millions of gods, innumerable pure lands," then it doesn't represent a sincere approach to knowledge.

Regards,

Istvan