February '10 Reading: Villette by Charlotte Bronte

[Scheherazade]

How do I join this forum? I'm plowing through the book as fast as I can.

You can join in the discussion anytime you like, Mayfly.

Dark Muse> She is actually older; in the chapter "Fete" it is revealed that she is 23 now.

*** SPOILER ***

Stop reading if you have not read at least 1/3 of the book.

So, thought my theory that Isidore=Guide was out of the window but then again now Isidore = Doctor = Guide.

"All too many coincidences," I was thinking but now she opened her eyes in her Godmother's house???

[Dark Muse]

B]Dark Muse>[/B] She is actually older; in the chapter "Fete" it is revealed that she is 23 now.

Perhaps she gets older as the book progresses but I did not think she was that old to start out with, and I haven't advanced that far yet.

But I thought someone here mentioned that she was like 14 years old, though they could have been mistaken.

[Scheherazade]

She was 14 when she stayed at her Godmother's but not when she gets employed at the school... During her first year there, she is 22-23.

[Dark Muse]

She was 14 when she stayed at her Godmother's but not when she gets employed at the school... During her first year there, she is 22-23.

Ahh ok, even so that is farily young, and particuarly considering the circumstances of the life she had, I do not find it that unusual that she dosen't have a clear idea of her own idenity, and has difficulty defining herself on her own terms.

[Veho]

A trivial question I guess, but what do you all think about the French that's in the book? If I was learning French, it'd be great and I realise it needs some to set the scene and atmosphere, as, obviously, it's set in France; but I keep having to flick to the back for the translations.

I'm enjoying it so far though, I don't really have anything else to add to the conversation at the mo.

[Dark Muse]

A trivial question I guess, but what do you all think about the French that's in the book? If I was learning French, it'd be great and I realise it needs some to set the scene and atmosphere, as, obviously, it's set in France; but I keep having to flick to the back for the translations.

I'm enjoying it so far though, I don't really have anything else to add to the conversation at the mo.

I think that at the time it was written it was probably more common that Bronte's audieance would have understood the French and it would not really have been thought much of.

I just wish my edition of the book had foot notes or end notes to translate for me. For me it gets annoying becasue I have no idea what is being said.

Agreed.

What do you think of Isidore? Just started that chapter... Is he the guy who guided Lucy on her first night there?.

I have to admit that at first I thought Isidore was made up by Ginevera and she just wanted something to brag about or a story to tell, because of the fact that she gave him a false name, and was so vague about talking about him.

I have to say I have mixed feeling in regards to Ginevra on the one hand in person I do not think she is the sort of person I would like but as a character I cannot help but find her amusing and charming in her own way, even if I generally disagree with her actions and decision, and her materialism.

It is kind of funny, though I cannot explain it, but though if I were in Lucy's positions I would have no doubt agreed with everything she said about Ginevra and Isidore, I couldn't help but be annoyed with Lucy for being so harsh toward Ginevra perhaps because I don't like people who impose their own morality on others, and because I felt that Isidore was allowing himself to be mislead by his own foolishness and someone more clever would have seen through Ginevra.

Though she was flirtatious and misleading Isidore I do not think she truly gave him any outright false promises, she just allows him to admire her. I do not agree with what she is doing but on the other hand I think Isidore is allowing himself to be deluded by her.

On the other hand, I can also understand where Lucy is coming from considering her own life experience. She has had to work to earn everything she has, and had to rely upon herself and make her own living, so she never had the luxury of someone else flipping the bill for her. I can see where thus seeing such waste and excessiveness would anger her, as well as the idea of someone else being finically taken advantage of. She understands the necessity for reasonability and the true value of money.

I just read about Dr. John and I cannot help but wonder if he keeps coming back to the house even though he knows Desire's illness is a farse because he admires Lucy, or because he admires Madame Beck. I cannot recall if it said how old Madame Beck was, but her children seem to be fairly young, and women tended to have children at a rather early age back then, so I would not think she would be that old.

[Veho]

I think that at the time it was written it was probably more common that Bronte's audieance would have understood the French and it would not really have been thought much of.

I just wish my edition of the book had foot notes or end notes to translate for me. For me it gets annoying becasue I have no idea what is being said.

If there's anything in particular that you really want to know what was said, I can post it on here from my edition.

[Dark Muse]

If there's anything in particular that you really want to know what was said, I can post it on here from my edition.

I will keep that in mind if I come acorss something that I feel I really want to know.

[Scheherazade]

I just read about Dr. John and I cannot help but wonder if he keeps coming back to the house even though he knows Desire's illness is a farse because he admires Lucy, or because he admires Madame Beck. I cannot recall if it said how old Madame Beck was, but her children seem to be fairly young, and women tended to have children at a rather early age back then, so I would not think she would be that old.

I never thought that... Expected him to be involved in one of the girls and some drama over this.

I agree with the French sections spoiling the reading flow.

I don't want to spoil it for anyone but I just want to say:

Ha! I knew we could not trust Lucy as a narrator!

[Quark]

I have to say, I think that Lucy not showing much emotion becomes more understandable after reading the chapter about Madame Beck, who does act as a sort of role model to Lucy, and I found particuarly interesting these passage in which Lucy is decribing her:

From what I remember of the book, I think you're right. In my earlier post, I was just commenting on how Bronte establishes Lucy's character in the first six or seven chapters. That's as far as I've gotten in my rereading.

[mona amon]

Ha! I knew we could not trust Lucy as a narrator!

Scher, which chapter were you on when you posted that?

I've read this book several times. One of my favourites!

[Dark Muse]

I just have to say I thought the chapter called The Casket was beautiful. It had some of the most poetic and appealing prose work. Perhaps I enjoyed it so much because of the touch of gloominess and darkness and the descriptions of the night, and the forbidden pathway. But I could quote just about that entire chapter.

And in reading those moments with her nightly seclusion in the gardens I really felt connected to Lucy.

[Scheherazade]

Scher, which chapter were you on when you posted that?

It was right after she falls ill after visiting the Church and later on confesses certain things about the people she knew.

What do you make of the fact that she gets locked up in the attic?

And I was wondering when we would get to meet Polly again... Too many coincidences for my liking.

[mona amon]

Too many coincidences for my liking.

Ha, Scher, I'm guessing you haven't yet read Jane Eyre! Outrageously unlikely coincidences are a part of most of Charlotte's plots.

[Dark Muse]

The thing I find interesting about the book is the way in which Lucy finds herself thrust into these positions which takes her completely out of her comfort zone and forces her into a role which is opposing to her usual nature. I think in this way there is some interesting ways of exploring identity, and perhaps identity confusion, and the process of shaping ones identify.

For starts there is the moment in which Lucy is placed for the first time as a teacher within the classroom of unruly students. While she is seen during the book as being passive as least in her dealings with other people, always withdrawn to herself watching everyone else without becoming actively involved. She finds herself placed in a position in which she must be actively aggressive, she is the center of attention, and must take command and dominate over others, and can no longer take a back seat but as to assert herself with her students.

Then there is the interesting parallel with the Fete in which she spends the day trying to seek some quite place and solitude and stay away form all the hustle and bustle, and makes a point of acquiring a dress that is rather low key and somewhat drab in comparison to the others around her, and yet she is quite literally pushed into the position of center stage as she finds herself taking on the role of the play. And is put before the eyes of everyone else in a display.

And of course, more than that, it cannot be ignored the gender role reversal she also must take on in playing the part of a man. I found that whole scene rather suggestive in which Lucy must act the role of a man whom is trying to woo Ginevra, particularly the scene in which Lucy actively starts to try and rival with Dr. John for Ginvera's attention when she notices that Ginevera is acting to Dr. John, Lucy thus begins to vie for Ginerva's affections and out do Dr. John.

I have to admit that there were moments within the book in which I had expected Lucy to have at least some leanings towards women, so it was quite interesting seeing Bronte at least comically play that role out. And it is curious to explore the possibility that Lucy is so harsh with Ginevera because Lucy is in fact jealous of Ginevra's admirers.