Well put. I'm absolutely fine with that.Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf
But will believers be willing to admit that their God is a product of the human imagination? That it's literature in the same vein as the Iliad?
Regards,
Istvan
Well put. I'm absolutely fine with that.
But will believers be willing to admit that their God is a product of the human imagination? That it's literature in the same vein as the Iliad?
Regards,
Istvan
"It is time we realized that to presume knowledge where one has only pious hope is a species of evil."
— Sam Harris
God will exist as long as humans exist because some humans will always believe in God. As long as humans exist some will believe in God. God will never cease to exist as long as humans exist. Get over it. Accept it. Facts have nothing to do with it.
Yeah, you said that already.
__________________
"Personal note: When I was a little kid my mother told me not to stare into the sun. So once when I was six, I did. At first the brightness was overwhelming, but I had seen that before. I kept looking, forcing myself not to blink, and then the brightness began to dissolve. My pupils shrunk to pinholes and everything came into focus and for a moment I understood. The doctors didn't know if my eyes would ever heal."
-Pi
Pure supposition!
Who are you to assert what Human Beings will believe or not believe in the future? That's like someone in the Dark Ages asserting that Human Beings will always believe the Earth to be flat.
Let's change one word in your statement:
Unicorns will exist as long as humans exist because some humans will always believe in Unicorns. As long as humans exist some will believe in Unicorns. Unicorns will never cease to exist as long as humans exist. Get over it. Accept it. Facts have nothing to do with it.
Believe what you want, but try not to preach.
Last edited by Michael T; 02-02-2010 at 11:17 PM.
imagination?But will believers be willing to admit that their God is a product of the human imagination? That it's literature in the same vein as the Iliad?
I asked my self this question.
Well ,
There is no Existence without Creation .
And there is no Creation without a Creator .
Who would be the Creator ?
Someone , something with limitations , a human being , who ?
I reached the conclusion that behind the creation of such great creations , there is God , so great , with no limitations .
It is logic ; let's say my own logic !
This is not, in actual fact, LOGIC. It is mumbo-jumbo.
In your above statement, how did you, or do you get from CREATION to a WHO?... simple, you just make it up as you go along... much like religion!
Last edited by Michael T; 02-05-2010 at 09:08 AM.
Your Syllogismimagination?
I asked my self this question.
Well ,
There is no Existence without Creation .
And there is no Creation without a Creator .
Who would be the Creator ?
Someone , something with limitations , a human being , who ?
I reached the conclusion that behind the creation of such great creations , there is God , so great , with no limitations .
It is logic ; let's say my own logic !
There is no existence without creation
There is no creation without a creator
Therefore there is no existence without a creator
However, for that to make sense...
God exists.
However, no one created God. He was always just there.
But, since there is no existence without creation...
God must not exist.
It's a lot easier to explain with a Big Bang and evolution.
In your above statement, how did you, or do you get from CREATION to a WHO?... simple, you just make it up as you go along
This is not, in actual fact, LOGIC. It is mumbo-jumbo
I got from creator to who.
I think you got what I meant although I didn't put in the right way as Katy does .
Thx for the numbo- jumbo.
This is applied on the matter only . The matter that has a beginning and an end .But, since there is no existence without creation...
God must not exist
God is not a matter .We cannot think of Him in the same way .
There is many ways to see the light of God . Science is one of them and maybe the most important .We are taught that the scientists are the most honoured after the prophets .It's a lot easier to explain with a Big Bang and evolution
Really like this response. Well said!
But some scientists who were critical of the creationist theory were executed and persecuted. History endorses this fact.
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
First we had religion to make sense of all the things that were going around us. And then we have science--which we could only be analyzing the effects and the processes of each change. But what is the most fundamental, the most original within everything? Does the law of conservation of energy explain where energy comes from and how much in total quantity?
To me, God, or "Buddha", or any main "spirit" in a religion is a state of mind. I'm a Buddhist but I do find that Bible contains a lot of metaphors similar to the teachings of Buddha. So if God is a state of mind, it can appear as anything--from the smallest details to the largest generalization, to the infinity. Everything you see is through your state of mind, how you see the world is constructed by your mind, although we have no idea, though, whether if the mind intends itself. If God is love (in my perception equality) then you "love" in order to be a part of God.
Mythologies to certain degrees are beautiful metaphors, from Prometheus' "he took the ability to perceive future, and gives man hope instead" to even the first few pages of genesis, to other philosophical teachings. They are also to certain degrees just a fulfillment of imagination and making sense. Afterall, all these cannot be proved yet cannot be disproved.
One thing that I find interesting though: is that all of us have problems that we find torturing. When we PRAY, we hope for a way out. But maybe that's just who we are, what we are designed for, then accepting yourself is the bigger picture. From this, you learn to help others, as we all are fools that understand much of nothing, smart but same time clueless. If you help others, you FEEL "love"(or God, whatever you call it). And you'll know by then.
Because simply just a short touch of "love", of all things are equal, or we all are the same human, is explained in a different way. If one ever becomes a parent (especially a mother who gives birth: I learn this from my mother), you'll feel the simplest connection to the cosmo that nothing can explain; not even science--because this is not a formula. When you love, when you sacrifice, you can picture yourself giving yourself away, as yourself is a product of all the "sins", then we become fundamental and original again.
How to know God other than from mythologies? Just "love" or "God". Use experiments. We are born with the ability to think AND do. You'll find the fundamental of all things, no matter it being nothing, something, or everything.
This is my point of view; for your reference. (But helping and giving do make a difference to the understanding) =D
This is my view
I have seen god.
I have seen him on the bacterial-slide, in the grass, in the creatures that surround us, in the trees, in the mountains, in the waters, in the cosmos. I have felt him as well. And I do so every day.
Let me explain: I subscribe to basically the same idea of god that Spinoza and Einstein did; and that is that god is an impersonal god. I believe that the spirit of god is matter named. I believe that everything you see around you, as well as you, yourself, is an expression of god. The universe is my church house, the expressivity of self my sermon. This is both a pantheistic and a deist approach to god.
At the core of my values two things stand out as the most important to me: faith and free-will. Faith makes all things possible; free-will allows for maximum expressivity of all. My god has no thought of "sin", but has put in place cause & effect, which are often mislabeled "sin".
I have not painted an image of god here, but I have outlined my belief in god and from that one should be able to see him--my god, that is--for all one has to do is look around.
"They're just thoughts, so go ahead and speak."
"We're just a collection of cells overrating
themselves."
I love this kind of discussion. I believe (and this is not an original idea of mine, but rather something I learned from Eastern thought) that God appears to different cultures in different periods of time and uses the form that would be most appropriate for that time and place. For instance, God may appear as Jesus, Buddha, Krishna or Shiva, etc. Likewise, different people are drawn to certain forms of God due to their natural disposition and inclinations: some will be drawn to Kali, Ganesha, Christ, etc. Some people are drawn more to love and devotion, some to physical strength and courage, and others to intelligence and wisdom, which are represented by the different forms and incarnations of God. The physical representations of God are real and at the same time they are not real because God is ultimately formless. However, humans wish (or need) to conceive of God with physical form so God appears to us this way. Just as the material world appears real to us while actually being a reflection of a higher, formless dimension that we cannot perceive.
I, too believe in God, and I agree completely with what you said. I think that science is very important and has done much good. However, science cannot answer answer the most important questions of our existence and probably never will. For example, scientists may someday learn everything about the Big Bang, but they cannot explain what existed even one second before the Big Bang (or what caused it). Scientists may measure the size of the universe and show that it is expanding, but cannot answer what lies outside of the universe. As you said, it is inconceivable to us and cannot be answered within the dimension we inhabit and with our human consciousness.I simply wonder. I in fact subscribe to the idea of God, for I cannot think that life is a physical thing and it ends up with death. I do not think that there was no purpose behind creation. I simply cannot rest with the idea that there was just chaos and out of them the world and we emerged. May be what creation is and how it happened is something inconceivable to us. Maybe this is a question that cannot be answered within the dimensions we try to understand natural phenomena.
Science may even prove that our life on this planet was the result of genetic engineering by an alien race for reasons known or unknown, but that still leaves the question of how that race of beings came into existence. It does not explain the mystery of consciousness. Science may prove that this universe, or the Big Bang, was created by another universe, but that begs the question of how that universe -- or anything -- came into existence. Like I mentioned, none of these thoughts are my own, but ideas I learned from Eastern philosophy.
Last edited by paradoxical; 03-25-2010 at 02:40 AM. Reason: changed a few words
Blaze:
I believe God is in you and me and everything we seeI do not think that there was no purpose behind creation. I simply cannot rest with the idea that there was just chaos and out of them the world and we emerged.
Last edited by dizzydoll; 03-20-2010 at 03:28 AM.
While dark matter slows down, dark energy speeds up. How can this be measured and doesnt the discovery of dark energy throw out "the big bang theory" completely?It's a lot easier to explain with a Big Bang and evolution
Personally, I believe we are at the very early stages of our development and there is no way we can KNOW where it all started because we dont have the ability/tools yet. Space exploration provides more questions than answers, scientists are always thrilled and surprised by new discoveries. The quantum field is wide open to so much not even the best of them can conceive its potential at this time. .... and then we have those who claim to know where it all started? Hardly likely.
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