Let's Go Vegetarian

[billl]

skib, as long as you like eating, it sounds like you're a lucky guy! My metabolism is pretty quick too, but not like that. I can't get too fat, and keeping muscle on is pretty hard beyond a certain point (even if I'm getting 80-100 grams of protein a day). I've adapted my fitness expectations accordingly--a little lanky, but still good at lifting things.

[NikolaiI]

My own quasi-vegetarianism is not based on political or ethical concerns (so much) as wanting to pattern my life on the virtue of simplicity. Fruits, vegetables, nuts, grains are lower on the food chain, simpler to produce, and consume (no cooking needed). To me there is a certain poetry to a simple diet that I admire.

The other part of that is that vegetables are more efficient in terms of energy. That is, they are closer to the original source of energy, the sun. Vegetables are closer to directly taking energy from the source; and to eat animals who eat the vegetables is less efficient. There is science involved as well, which backs this up, but I am not well-versed in it.

Did you ever hear of hambuger and hot dogs? It all get ground up, every last bit.

Virgil there is lots of meat that gets thrown out, I am sure. But I know a bit more of the other foods that get thrown out - everything else; vegetables, fruits... they get thrown out in very large quantities from grocery stores and farmers. It's really true. Sometimes it gets donated to churches or something, which is very good. But otherwise they have to throw it away when it expires beyond what they can sell. Keep in mind I am not condemning. I am just responding to your indiciating that there is little or no waste...

Oh okay, so your statement was only in regard to meat. Well, there is quite a lot of waste in America from that... restaurants do waste a lot of it; not that the business managers do not know its bad, but sometimes it is unavoidable for uncountable different reasons.

[billl]

The other part of that is that vegetables are more efficient in terms of energy. That is, they are closer to the original source of energy, the sun. Vegetables are closer to directly taking energy from the source; and to eat animals who eat the vegetables is less efficient. There is science involved as well, which backs this up, but I am not well-versed in it.

This is true, and earlier threads about crop usage were talking about the same thing. It is an important factor in a discussion of the economics and ecology of the issue.

However, in some cases, efficiency of absorption within the human body is a different matter (e.g. animal proteins are more efficiently absorbed and utilized, with I believe soy being the main vegetable source of nearly-comparable quality). It's a different issue, but interesting to consider in a complete discussion about nutritional "efficiency."

[skib]

Oh okay, so your statement was only in regard to meat. Well, there is quite a lot of waste in America from that... restaurants do waste a lot of it; not that the business managers do not know its bad, but sometimes it is unavoidable for uncountable different reasons.

For what its worth, the bears end up eating what would be all the waste food from my ranch.

[Virgil]

This is true, and earlier threads about crop usage were talking about the same thing. It is an important factor in a discussion of the economics and ecology of the issue.

However, in some cases, efficiency of absorption within the human body is a different matter (e.g. animal proteins are more efficiently absorbed and utilized, with I believe soy being the main vegetable source of nearly-comparable quality). It's a different issue, but interesting to consider in a complete discussion about nutritional "efficiency."

Hooray!! I've tried to say that for the four years i've been here and obviously I was not eloquent. Very well said! That's exactly correct! Four stars for that.

[billl]

Hooray!! I've tried to say that for the four years i've been here and obviously I was not eloquent. Very well said! That's exactly correct! Four stars for that.

Well, it isn't that big of a point! I sense your "hunger" for pro-meat science, but the excitement here is a bit overboard.

Someone interested in getting into shape (ie. muscular, or trim) would have an easier time (and spend less money) going with the soy-protein hamburgers. If they can find them... Soy protein metabolizes VERY well (92% as well as egg whites, which is excellent), has VERY little fat, and is cheaper and more efficient to produce than beef. And there are many other plant sources that contribute as well. Three meals of meat per day is much more protein than the average person needs. The discussions of efficient land use earlier in this thread, as well as the point Nikolai is making, are dealt only the slightest of blows by this other sense of "efficiency."

I think it helps to explain (evolutionarily) why the issue of taste immediately jumps to mind, in the face of what are clear (but distant) horrors. People are designed to like the taste of meat (it gives us a lot of good protein and fat); and, just as with sugar, it is easy to throw good sense to the wind when the flavor takes charge.

In many contexts, I have found that people have to make choices regarding when and when not to call on their higher-selves, or surrender to animal instincts. Personally, I would be very disappointed if a fair-minded attempt to avoid confusion might in any way be taken as a four-star defense of factory-farming, etc.

[Radha Krsna]

[skib]

Yep. I like dogs. Not so big on cats, though. However, posting cute little animal pictures isn't making me feel any worse about how much I like eating them.

[Lokasenna]

Yep. I like dogs. Not so big on cats, though. However, posting cute little animal pictures isn't making me feel any worse about how much I like eating them.

I've eaten dog... it was alright, I suppose, but it just tasted like slightly odd beef. Still, it was an experience, and I'm glad I got to try something new.

Never eaten cat though... does any culture use cat as a foodstuff?

[Anna_MAlkovych]

does any culture use cat as a foodstuff?

I think Chinese do

[Lokasenna]

I think Chinese do

Never encountered it while I was out there... oh well.

Hah, this reminded me of something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdcrE...eature=related

[skib]

I've eaten dog... it was alright, I suppose, but it just tasted like slightly odd beef. Still, it was an experience, and I'm glad I got to try something new.

Never eaten cat though... does any culture use cat as a foodstuff?

I'm sure I could find one to cook up. Any recipe ideas?

[OrphanPip]

I read once that cat hunting was a traditional sport in Switzerland, but they were thinking of banning it.

[Virgil]

Never encountered it while I was out there... oh well.

Hah, this reminded me of something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdcrE...eature=related

That was hilarious!! Thanks Loka.

[JuniperWoolf]

I think Chinese do

My taekwondo instructor was from Korea, and he said that they sell cats at the market down there. He could have been screwing with me though, he liked to kid around.