November / Philosophical Novel Reading: The Fall

[dfloyd]

Quite different from The Stranger. It is quite good, and I don't think you need a background in philosophy to enjoy it. The language is quite different, but The Fall reminds me of Poe's The Fall of the House of Usher. Not only because of the word 'Fall' in both titles, but because there is virtually no dialogue in either story.

Reading this makes me feel the Nobel prize was justly awarded. The many personages acted by Jean-Baptiste: God, the Pope, and of course John the Baptist - make the novel interesting and convoluted. It certainly makes you think! This short book would have to be read several times to discern all Camus has to tell. So when you've finished it, just start on your second reading.

[Gladys]

I think Camus is actually inside my head.

Aren't you, in fact, Clamence's silent acquaintance?

...I don't think you need a background in philosophy to enjoy it.

A limited knowledge of Kierkegaard sure does help!

[dfloyd]

about everything!

[OrphanPip]

Camus' essay The Myth of Sisyphus would be more enlightening than Kierkegaard. He is responding to Existentialism by creating his own philosophy of Absurdism. Camus is a lot less positive than Kierkegaard, though his roots do go back to him.

http://dbanach.com/sisyphus.htm

[Dark Muse]

Aren't you, in fact, Clamence's silent acquaintance?

I feel like I am! When reading the book, some of the things he says, I littlerally will yell out YES!!! to the book

[shortstoryfan]

I'm very tempted to run like a bunny to the library, retrieve this book, read it in a hurry, and join in the conversation! But ah, the month has past it's half-way point.

[Dark Muse]

It is not a very long book, and pretty easy to read through.

[Gladys]

Having finished days ago, I am not warming to the story. Reading was a drudgery and most of Camus' ideas I'd heard from earlier writers - Kierkegaard, Ibsen, Dostoevsky, Joyce, Kafka and others - in more entertaining forms. Still, I did enjoy L’Étranger, last year.

Clamence's life journey and that he finally learns to have his tawdry but wounding amusement at our expense is, nevertheless, rather sharp.

[Dark Muse]

Just finished The Fall tonight, and even though it was not as engaging or interesting as The Stranger, and did not have much of an actual story behind it, and the narrative style could be tedious at times, I still loved it!

There was just so much within the book that spoke to me personally, and I was right on page and on board with much of what Camus said. His perceptions and thoughts so similar reflected my own. So many of the passages just jumped out at me.

[Gladys]

...and did not have much of an actual story behind it...

As for the actual story - Clamence's growing awareness - I'm less than clear what has happened. Here's my thoughts:

Clamence did good works for self actualisation, realised the intrinsic hypocrisy this entailed, and despairing, he becomes a debaucher, who preaches his realised truth to the ostensibly virtuous.

[Scheherazade]

I have read only 1/4 of the story but I find the first person narrative very engaging. It is like listening to a smooth talker in action. Even though we know that he cannot be trusted entirely, we still cannot help finding him fascinating.

[Dark Muse]

I have read only 1/4 of the story but I find the first person narrative very engaging. It is like listening to a smooth talker in action. Even though we know that he cannot be trusted entirely, we still cannot help finding him fascinating.

Yes! Exzactly that was some of my first thoughts about the narrator when I first started reading the book.

You can sense there is something about him not to be liked, and yet you cannot resist being intrigued by him.

[Scheherazade]

Couple of questions:

Why do you think the story is set in NL?

There is a mention of a picture being removed from the wall behind the bar (I think) and its place is visible now. Any significance to that?

[Dark Muse]

I had to go back and refresh my memory on that part.

Intrestingly enough the painting was called "The Just Judges"



and it was stolen from a pannle done as an altar peice called "The Adoration of the Lamb:



I think that there is some significance in the fact that it was the judges who were stolen considering the nature of the narrative which does heavily speak of ideas of judgement through man and mans attempts to try to absolve himself of judgement at all cost. As well the narrator referees to himself as the judge-penitent and in telling his story is exposing himself to being judged for his own conduct and actions.

Yet, ironically in the story concerning the painting he tries to absolve himself of any connection with the crime (perhaps proving his own point) for he says no harm is being done by his not returning it since none can tell the replica from the authentic piece.

I think the reason he has the panel removed from the bar to be stored within his own apartment is because he sees the judges as being in someway sacred and perhaps he feels the need to preserve them from a world that has become so corrupt. He explains one of the reasons why he did not return the authentic panel is because

those judges are on their way to meet the Lamb, because there is no more lamb or innocence, and because the clever rascal who stole the panel was an instrument of the unknown justice that one ought not to thwart

"The Just Judges" have no business being enthroned within the bar to rule over and be snubbed by those sinners who frequent the bar, and I think that he feels some sort of kinship with the judges and I think he sees himself as being their keeper in a way. Protecting them from what the world has become, perhaps keeping them blind to the sins of man, whom refuse their judgement.

[OrphanPip]

Why do you think the story is set in NL?

The wiki on the book goes into detail about the setting in Amsterdam, and I have to say that it makes a lot of sense. If I remember correctly, Clamence in the story compares the canals to the circles of hell from Dante. The wiki says that the red-light district, where the bar is, is in the center ring. Thus, the story is in a way taking place in the last circle of hell from Dante's Inferno, where Satan is found. The fact that it takes place in a sort of symbolic hell on Earth sort of goes in with the theme of judgment. All these people are judging, and worrying about being judged, but ultimately they are already condemned and living out the worse punishment possible.