This classical debate over materiality or immateriality is something that carries our discussion eternally and in point of fact discussion is interesting. Both arguers cannot say conclusively whether it is material or non-material the world is made up of
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
please send mail for me
My belief in God is partly logic and partly faith.
Anyway, I think that a great way to approach religion is to think of Pascall's Wager. Pascall asks that if you were offered two kinds of game in a casino, one in which you can win a cash prize, and your bet is automatically returned to you whether or not you win, or one where if you win you do not win anything, you just get a refund, and if you lose you lose everything, which would you pick? Pascall then goes on to say that the first game is belief in God, because if you are wrong you lose nothing in the end, and you have the satifaction of having lived a morally upstanding life. He likens the second game to Atheism, because if you are wrong you lose everything, but if you are right you gain nothing at all......
"Welcome to the real world"
Morpheus; the matrix
So which God do you put the money on? If you put the money on Jehovah, then you go to hell if Allah rules. Even in the same religion, you go to hell if you are a protestant and a Catholic God is actually on the throne. Humans have invented a thousand gods, which one do you put your money on? Of course, the reason there are a thousand gods is that there is no convincing evidence for any of them. So just be an atheists, relax, and be thankful you don't have to go through the strange rituals and worries of the god-fearing...Originally Posted by Odysseus93
Also, Pascal's logic is good but the practical application isn't supportable.
If I say I will give you a million dollars if you believe in microscopic pink dragons who live on discarded mint toffee wrappers, and I also say that there's no downside if such dragons turn out not to exist, could you suddenly start believing in them?
No. You can't decide to believe in the existence of something because there's an advantage in so believing. What you're actually doing is deciding not to go out of your way not to believe in it, as if that were the equivalent of a commitment to the belief.
Incidentally, I'm serious about the dragons, and about the reward. So I guess you'll be believing in those dragons from this moment on, as there's no downside to you if I turn out to be an insane pauper.
It's an interesting concept; that one choses to believe or not. I find that the difficulty is that when we are young and more suseptible to believing others ideas, we may hear enough to begin to believe in the negative consequences of nonbelief. We may think we will go to hell. However, we find it difficult to believe in the god personality that is presented to us. So we have the lingering fear of going to hell without a true belief in god.
I'd just like to point something out. I'm Catholic and I believe in God and an afterlife.
If I live my life according to that belief and it turns out I'm wrong, then I will cease to exist when I die.
If I live my life as an atheist and reject God and it turns out I'm wrong, then I will spend eternity separated from my creator in a hell of my own creation.
I think I'm going to stick with Catholicism.
The Catholic God does not send you to hell for being Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or even an Atheist. There is more to it than labels.
Why do atheists try to convince religious people that God doesn't exist?
Many of the atheists because they believe that there is no evidence of the existence of God
God with us .. all the time and everywhere ..
Dark or light
And forget we humans
That God sees us, and we do the ugly
When this happens the person has something bad or thing good
Due to the presence of Fate
And a FATE the work of God
This means that God exists
We are here to worship God
I apologize for the intervention
So we should profess whatever belief ensures us the best reward, eh? How materialistic.
Regards,
Istvan
You "put your money" on the God whose existence and whose character most correctly explains the universe, our existence, human nature, morality, the nature of evil, and its solution. Very few actually do that as well as Christianity does.
"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
I skimmed the first page of this thread. I agree with a lot of what JBI says.
I am technically an atheist, though I have such a sordid conscience that I fear going to hell. I was a hardcore atheist as a youth, but when I became acquainted with the near-death experience phenomenon I became concerned.
I don't know if this has already been said, but there is no tangible evidence for God. There are nothing but relational terms. What does "holy" mean? Can you find a manifest example in contemporary America? What does "divine" mean? What is a "soul"? If it is consciousness, is it not inextricably linked to the pulp of the brain; leading one to believe it will stop running with the end of the brain? I find no proof for God but relational terms.
Also, I'm acquainted with a little Camus. Why would God create a completely impartial environment for loved creations? Why is that though things happen for a reason, they do not happen for a purpose?
In "The Fall", Camus points out that Jesus Christ could have died for all the infants slaughtered in Judea. The angels of God held Jesus's life higher than that of a horde of infants. How does crime consist less in making others die? Just a few thoughts. Pull me back on track if I'm digressing.
Hopefully we'll reach some cogent arguments, but closure is likely destined to forever remain concealed.
Also, please do not attempt to convert me. I state that kindly but firmly. We are here to discuss, and I will respect your arguments under any circumstance.
Last edited by FoghornBellows; 12-03-2009 at 06:13 PM.
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