Is Satan a freedom fighter?

[blazeofglory]

The God I'm discussing is the one portrayed in the Bible. Both Genesis and the Book of John establish that before anything existed, God existed; that all that is created came from God; that God is all-powerful, and all-knowing, and all-present. No created being can possess those attributes. Revelation tells us that God is the "alpha and omega" the beginning and the end. In Isaiah 14 this is said about Satan:

"How are you fallen from heaven! howl in the morning! for you have fallen down to the ground, O reviler of the nations. For you have said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will dwell also upon the high mountains in the outer regions of the north. I will ascend to the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

Scholars universally point to this as clearly identifying the sin of Satan that got him cast out of heaven: he wished to rule alongside God - but as a created being, that cannot be so: only uncreated beings can rule as God - God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit.

My claims, therefore, are based upon scripture; not, as you suggest, "eyewitness account."

I do not subscribe to your argument, and you have a Christian God, not a universal God with all the follies of popes and priests.

There are other faiths and if you present the biblical idea of creation there were Hindus' own, Buddhists have their own.

To say your God created and is the master of the universe and the rest of Gods are subordinated to your God is a baseless notion.

Rise above all these narrow sentiments and discover a universal God that can appeal to all.

[skasian]

Define freedom in this context. If it applies to have the power to act over good without any restrains, then yes, satan is a freedom fighter as it fights over human's intention to act good.

[blazeofglory]

Define freedom in this context. If it applies to have the power to act over good without any restrains, then yes, satan is a freedom fighter as it fights over human's intention to act good.

No, there it exists in every one. No saint is bereft of it. Saintliness is not totally empty of satanic propensity or devilishness in some amount.

If we dig into truth beyond layers you will arrive at the truth where both satan and saint play together the same game.

[skasian]

Saints and devils are significantly different therefore cannot be supporting in this discussion. Saints were human still capable of falling through sin by the influence of the devil. Devil is not human, and is a being that influences human to act evil. Saints in heaven do not influence human to act good. Therefore saints do not fight for the same freedom ie power to act over good without any restrains, whereas the devil does.

If you imply using the word freedom as power to act over whatever they are opposing, then yes, they both fight for freedom only if it implies the devil fighting over good and saints fighting over bad.

[KrakenRouge]

I think the religious angle some of you guys are taking this to is ridiculous. If anything the poster's statement is meant in a political sense, it makes sense to consider a counter-acting force as the natural political enemy to be reviled by the leader figure. The whole situation is a metaphor for dictatorships, the violent revolutionaries who overthrow them and probably seek nothing else except the same aim, and the morally ambigiuous idiots who actually bother to get all hot and bothered about their theological positions on a literature forum and a post based on fictional characters!! For all intents and purposes, God and Satan as defined in this novel are separate characters from the theological canon. And even in the situation of a Bible, its still a book, with what some consider fictional tropes and characters.

[soundofmusic]

I think the religious angle some of you guys are taking this to is ridiculous. If anything the poster's statement is meant in a political sense, it makes sense to consider a counter-acting force as the natural political enemy to be reviled by the leader figure. The whole situation is a metaphor for dictatorships, the violent revolutionaries who overthrow them and probably seek nothing else except the same aim, and the morally ambigiuous idiots who actually bother to get all hot and bothered about their theological positions on a literature forum and a post based on fictional characters!! For all intents and purposes, God and Satan as defined in this novel are separate characters from the theological canon. And even in the situation of a Bible, its still a book, with what some consider fictional tropes and characters.

I'm quite glad you revived this post; it's a very interesting concept if one thinks of it from all perspectives. I do believe that the poster was using a metaphor; but, perhaps you should ask him. Part of the reason why most of participate on this literature forum is that we have the opportunity to explore the literature, the authors, delve into their rational and our belief systems. Welcome to the forum

[JommiL]

Satan, the word sounds rather disgusting to those whose minds are preoccupied with some ideas they have through others or reading the Bible.

Satan is in point of fact a freedom seeker and does not want to submit to the tyranny of God.

In fact God wants that all submit to his command, Satan, uncommon and un-submissive launched a number of raids and did not want to coordinate with God. He therefore raised or inspired his legions seeking distinct space for them.

In today's world also if any freedom fighters set themselves against the tyranny of their rulers they will be exiled.

Satan is in everyone of us, inherently, and we do not become explicit dreading the unthinkable.

Do not take Satan differently. He is like all of us who want a self chosen government and he does not want any dictator to govern over us.

God is a traditional ruler. He had succeeded in programming the minds of his subjects that he is almighty and that he is the creator of everything.

Yes every religion has a god and devil too.

Well, here´s some story:

My newest satire is about Finland; Jesus Christ will come again into this hell - Finland - and Satan is the master - believe me! Satire is the name of the game. Now, Jesus has JUST the same style before, and most Finnish people blames him as a stupid one. In other case, Satan has a LOT of fun. He corrupts Finnish politics, religion, religion, arts, act by act, etc. He lives in parliamenthouse etc. Demons are stupid a ss hole s. Satan is nice, VERY handsome, look-a-like-wise gentleman with a huge coc.... no matter. (Do you ever think that when people say that Finland is nice country? It looks a like it....)
Finally Jesus will be burn in bonfire - we are so "intellectual".


Point is to show, that human nature is very corrupted one. I Don´t see any saviour from inside.

[soundofmusic]

Well, here´s some story:

My newest satire is about Finland; Jesus Christ will come again into this hell - Finland - and Satan is the master - believe me! Satire is the name of the game. Now, Jesus has JUST the same style before, and most Finnish people blames him as a stupid one. In other case, Satan has a LOT of fun. He corrupts Finnish politics, religion, religion, arts, act by act, etc. He lives in parliamenthouse etc. Demons are stupid a ss hole s. Satan is nice, VERY handsome, look-a-like-wise gentleman with a huge coc.... no matter. (Do you ever think that when people say that Finland is nice country? It looks a like it....)
Finally Jesus will be burn in bonfire - we are so "intellectual".


Point is to show, that human nature is very corrupted one. I Don´t see any saviour from inside.

I see you are also a freedom fighter, Jommil. A little off point, perhaps, but aren't they all Are you Finnish, by the way? Welcome to the forum

[JommiL]

Well, i am a freedomfighter, but im also VERY plus or minus - guy. You either like me or not. What i try to say, is that we has t be morally strong backbone, but litarature etc. It is matter of taste.

If you want to change anything in this world, you need faith; If you will create some text to readers and you want that they will think again, you must be morally better first; If you want to change the the world, but your idea´s will not gettingyou any better, it is nonsense. All of your writings are stupid; How do you think that you could change world, it they cant even change you?

BTW; My newest book has it own name; Freedom. What freedom is? If you ask, i can tell short story about it...

[soundofmusic]

Well, i am a freedomfighter, but im also VERY plus or minus - guy. You either like me or not. What i try to say, is that we has t be morally strong backbone, but litarature etc. It is matter of taste.

If you want to change anything in this world, you need faith; If you will create some text to readers and you want that they will think again, you must be morally better first; If you want to change the the world, but your idea´s will not gettingyou any better, it is nonsense. All of your writings are stupid; How do you think that you could change world, it they cant even change you?

BTW; My newest book has it own name; Freedom. What freedom is? If you ask, i can tell short story about it...

I am a blunt person myself, so I appreciate honesty. Do you believe that morals are universal? Religion does not seem to use the same morals over time; but adapt to the needs of circumstance. What do you think?

[JommiL]

I am a blunt person myself, so I appreciate honesty. Do you believe that morals are universal? Religion does not seem to use the same morals over time; but adapt to the needs of circumstance. What do you think?

Well, moral IS universal. There´s a many points in itK; Bible says that you can´t steal, lie etc. It is hard so say otherwise.

My point of view is that we can be free, but there´s just one moral thing.

[soundofmusic]

[QUOTE=JommiL;795191]Well, moral IS universal. There´s a many points in itK; Bible says that you can´t steal, lie etc. It is hard so say otherwise.

My point of view is that we can be free, but there´s just one moral thing.[/QUOTE

I 've often been disturbed that God took sides in the wars in old times; that if one believes in the concept of creationism, then there was incest after that little disastorous affair in the garden; which was later considered wrong. I don't understand why God would ask for a blood sacrifice when he created all things which are made from flesh; I found it sadistic when he tested Abraham by asking him to kill Isaac...Had I have been near the cross when Jesus was being crucified; I would have been waiting for a last minute reprieve from the govenor. Do you ever ask yourself about these things?

Does anyone question this

[JommiL]

Good question. Ok. What do you think - before i answer - if catholics are in war, what do you think, which side God is? Both sides pray for God from sap, and both has same God.

[soundofmusic]

Good question. Ok. What do you think - before i answer - if catholics are in war, what do you think, which side God is? Both sides pray for God from sap, and both has same God.

The above remarks were what made me originally question the fundamentalist doctorines. I believe in the supernatural; but not in a god that resembles man. I have suspected for many years that the most powerful people of the most powerful countries are bouncing us about like puppets and blaming God, the devil, and small secular groups for problems that we have created and forgotten as soon as the next CNN report, reality show or politician tells us a different version of a truth we should have remembered from a time, not even ten years earlier. Man is a fical creature, and has made his god in his image.

[DonovanTalbot]

Satan, the word sounds rather disgusting to those whose minds are preoccupied with some ideas they have through others or reading the Bible.

Satan is in point of fact a freedom seeker and does not want to submit to the tyranny of God.

In fact God wants that all submit to his command, Satan, uncommon and un-submissive launched a number of raids and did not want to coordinate with God. He therefore raised or inspired his legions seeking distinct space for them.

In today's world also if any freedom fighters set themselves against the tyranny of their rulers they will be exiled.

Satan is in everyone of us, inherently, and we do not become explicit dreading the unthinkable.

Do not take Satan differently. He is like all of us who want a self chosen government and he does not want any dictator to govern over us.

God is a traditional ruler. He had succeeded in programming the minds of his subjects that he is almighty and that he is the creator of everything.

Yes every religion has a god and devil too.

Let me readdress this with a question of my own, do you believe Earth is a paradise? Do you believe on Earth justice and righteousness and honesty always prevail? Are the poor, downtrodden, broken, oppressed, weak, disenfranchised, elderly, and powerless always lifted up? Are they loved and cared for?

What if God once gave this to mankind, but mankind had it's ears tickled into temptation of rebellion and disobedience.

Satan is called the Lord of this World, Father of Lies, Murderer from the Beginning, Prince of the Power of the Air, principalities and powers, and accuser of the brethren. Do you see the drawn parallels between Satan and mankind/the world?

Mankind followed Satan into Sin and it can't be more evident than in the whole world of around us. We witness it every minute of the day.

Jesus said fear not if the world hates you, for it hated me first. This principally "satanic" world with "satanic" values rejected Christ and crucified Him because he was too good and too incorruptible and too honest.