What other people think

[Dark Muse]

I posted this quotation upon my blog, and it had stimulated a lot of interesting commentary and differing points of view upon the subject so it was suggested to me by Scher that it could make an interesting group discussion and I figured why not?

The quote is as follows:

What other people think of me is none of my business

I heard the quote on the radio, and the person who stated it said she got it from Flowers for Algernon.

The discursion upon my blog brought up the idea if one does in fact have a responsibility of some sort to consider what other people think of them in relation to their actions, and how the react to other people, and if there is some sort of generally responsibility to society regarding how one is perceived.

And the practicality or impracticality of truly abiding by the sentiment behind the quote.

As a misanthrope I myself do not feel any true social reasonability to the general populace and do not truly care what others make think of me. I often adjusted others by my belief that if someone else gets offended by something I say, it is their problem not mine.

I have always had an apathy for what anyone else might be inclined to think about me and while I do not go out of my way to be rude, I do not think I have an obligation to protect the feelings of other people.

I just don't do fake nice but on the other side, nor do I expect other people to play nice with me if they are not sincere.

[billl]

As far as not wanting people to think ill of me, well there's limits on that. For example, a good manager has to draw the line on some things, even though being generally liked/respected is probably a good style for most people doing that job. Another example: there are times someone might see me do something out of its larger context--e.g. putting a magazine back in the wrong place in a bookstore after I had picked it up from the same wrong place a minute earlier--and in those cases it would often be overdoing it to explain things or hunt around for some distant magazine location. Finally, there are times when people just have a different opinion than mine, and while it might be good to avoid bringing certain things up at certain times, there are unavoidable moments when "me being me" might strike certain other people negatively.

However, I think that having empathy for other people is important, and sometimes that might mean I would have to speculate about how another person feels about me in some situations (e.g. I wouldn't talk about old times too explicitly around an ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend).

Anyhow, when I read the quote, what I immediately took it to be referring to is the fact that I have no right to probe, talk around, demand, or in any other way at all get at another person's honest (or even dishonest, experimental) thoughts about me, if they don't want to share them. I could ask, directly or indirectly maybe, if it seemed important, but then that's that. We do as we do, and the consequences and other people's reactions reach us, if at all, only via the sovereign actions of the other people themselves, and the vagaries of subsequent events. If someone wants to be polite, but secretly think I have a bad haircut, or am a snob about wine, or treated their friend the way that their friend characterized it, etc., well, that's none of my business. I mean, I might learn about it from someone else or whatever, but in the end, a person's thoughts are a person's private affair.

It is an interesting quote, and maybe I've taken it too seriously/literally. I think it would be interesting to learn more about the context in which it was spoken.

P.S. It isn't anyone's business, but I am not much of a snob about wine. Not that it's a big deal, I just wouldn't want you to think I am. Just kidding.

[hoope]

You might be right , why should we care about what others think of me .
We will behave the way we want .. Do whateva we see right ..

But i guess its just like how Bill said up there .. " i don't want anyone to think ill of me "

We live in a society , in a community , among a family , friends , colleagues... We live among people . Anything we might do may affect them .. anything we say may make them conclude some ideas about us. We don't like to be in a situation that people keeps talking about us . That is why i say we should reconsider about what people around us may think .. And monitor our behavior.

I just don't do fake nice but on the other side, nor do I expect other people to play nice with me if they are not sincere.

Me either.. i don't know how to fake others.. but as i live everyday i find out that i don't have to expect people to be as nice as i am .. the more we live the more strange things we see....

[Scheherazade]

(I will cheat and paste some parts of my reply from the blog entry)

I am not sure.

I think it is our responsibility how we project ourselves, which leads to the way we are perceived by others. It does not mean we need to conform to others' expectations all the time but, still, if we are behaving in a certain way, then it is, to a certain degree, our "problem" how others interpret this.

I am not suggesting that we need to lose sleep over what others think of us but we cannot shake off the responsibility of it, either.

When I realise that someone is hurt by something I have said or done, I take the time to consider whether I should/could have done things differently. I can almost never shrug and say it is their problem. I try to understand and make amends if necessary.

I think putting myself under the microscope should be my first responsibility; I am responsible from my own action.

What do you do in reverse-case scenario? Do you think what you think of others does not mean anything to them?

[Jozanny]

As a misanthrope I myself do not feel any true social reasonability to the general populace and do not truly care what others make think of me. I often adjusted others by my belief that if someone else gets offended by something I say, it is their problem not mine.

I don't think much of the fact that you keep highlighting this about yourself Dark, as I have actually hurt other people by being caustic and cutting, and had to live with it later. One of my early friends from Speakeasy was an older woman who sort of liked to nanny the boys on the site. She took the trouble to mail me used copies of the entire Dune saga, and I was mean to her for no reason anyone in their right mind would be. It was not even a case of being reactionary for a reason. I had none, and simply growled at the poor dear soul who took so much time with me.

This was maybe between 98 and 2k; it is nearly 2010 and my conscience still flogs me over this. It seems that you care enough to keep putting this up front and center to prove something that perhaps you don't need to. I don't always like the conventions of appropriate manners either, but their are some self-inflicted wounds I might have been spared by not behaving like a cur.

[Dark Muse]

*shrugs* I am who I am and people can take me or leave me. I don't conform myself to fit into any one elses idea of what I should or shouldn't do, or how I should or shouldn't act.

And whatever people may think of me, is thier right and dosen't much concern me.

To be quite frankly honest the only regrets I have in my dealings with other people is there are some people that I think I was too lenient with. But being a misanthrope and not caring about what society thinks of me, does not by default mean I go around willy nilly being mean to people just for the sake of it, that in itself would be more effort than I would be willing to put into the general populace, I prefer to just be left alone, and in turn keep myself isolated as much as possible.

But I speak openly and frankly about what I think, and I don't offer false niceties. It if I am not happy about something I am not going to pretend to be, and if I don't like someone I am not going to hide it.

[Jozanny]

Okay, but what is your point in continuing to press the point? The few times I have posted with you about Chekov or Poe I thought your views had merit. I can see your attraction to Rand and considered that accordingly, but few people online actually see each other in three dimensional status.

Assuming that it is a peer thing, well, that is nothing new in terms of wanting to be on the outside of it, or experiencing alienation, and with my age and isolation I am a bit removed from the pecking order--but I do not think anything about you in terms of making a judgment about you.

[Dark Muse]

I really wasn't attempting to press the point as you put it here. I posted the quote upon my blog, with no real explanation just because I liked the quote, and I have a quotation collection on my blog, and it stimulated discussion so Scher. suggested I make the quite into a group discussion and I so no reason not to. So for posting it in the thread here, I was merely offering an explanation behind the quote or at least my views of it to aid in the stimulation of a conversation about different ways of perceiving the quote and its validity or invalidity.

I cannot just avoid speaking of my views where I find that they are indeed relevant to a conversation.

[Jozanny]

If my earlier post reads like I felt provoked, I suppose I was, but I am not sure about the sore point of my provocation. Something about my landlord and my recent suffering over the renovations, where what people think nearly landed me in tenant court, when I was the one taking it on the chin. As a writer, I have to care what my publishers think, if not my readers, but I guess I am in the middle, between you and Sche, because what some people see when they look at me is a handicapped woman who affronts them for not being *passive,* to use the relocation supervisor's term. I'd like nothing better than to sic a lawyer on her like a pit bull.

In CripWorld, Dark, there are a lot of paradigms which I once accepted. Not so much anymore, even within the independent living ideology which is supposed to empower me, and once did. But the cost of my battle is that I am not a person I like very much, at least on some points, like getting stout.

[blazeofglory]

Of course we all are too much obsessed with what others will think about us and at times I feel all we do are instigated by others or that we are too much obsessed with others' business more than our own.

When we get too muchness about others reaction to what we do or behave we feel too much pressured.

Therein exactly where problems lie when we kind of totally become totally fixated by others' reactions or thoughts about what we do.

That is exactly from where problems start.

Let us live on our own unthinking about what the rest think about us.

In fact no one is perfect and unblemished, and no human' corpus is totally clean of incompleteness or flaws. It is the cover or the outer paint that gives the idea of completeness or perfection.

[Sapphire]

What other people think of me is none of my business

I like that I think it is a good thing to keep in mind, but maybe from another point of view than you all mentioned. I agree that you have to be yourself without confirming too much to others' reactions to what you do. I also think you have to keep in mind that you live in a community and thus should be very aware that your actions and sayings have an influence on other people's lives. But then again, being yourself and caring about the people around you doesn't have to be in conflict with one another

But what I like from this quote is that it says it is "none of my business". People are free to think what they want. Even if what they think is "about me" - that doesn't mean I am responsible for their thinking. They perceive our sayings and actions from their own experience and won't always interpret it as we might mean it. What philosopher is it again whom says we can't perceive anything without putting our self in it? Something with filters and empirical evidence ...

I don't think it this absolute though. I mean, how we are perceived by others is ALSO influenced by them. But it is still an impression we make and we have to be held accountable for whatever we do.

And if I do not care what they think and won't let my actions be influenced by their thinking - does that mean that it is none of my business? I mean, you make an impression on people and that is NONE of your business? It is YOU. You have a choice: you can choose to care or choose not to care (and anything inbetween). It is your business to make that choice...

Ow geez, the more I think about this the harder it is to have a clear opinion .

I like the quote, but I am not too sure whether I can agree to it fully.

[Scheherazade]

I don't think we should single out Dark Muse however much we might disagree with her on this issue simply because she is sharing how she feels.

I also do not think we can ignore the fact that our actions are our own responsibility.

Is everyone an island?

[Dark Muse]

If my earlier post reads like I felt provoked, I suppose I was, but I am not sure about the sore point of my provocation. Something about my landlord and my recent suffering over the renovations, where what people think nearly landed me in tenant court, when I was the one taking it on the chin. As a writer, I have to care what my publishers think, if not my readers, but I guess I am in the middle, between you and Sche, because what some people see when they look at me is a handicapped woman who affronts them for not being *passive,* to use the relocation supervisor's term. I'd like nothing better than to sic a lawyer on her like a pit bull.

In CripWorld, Dark, there are a lot of paradigms which I once accepted. Not so much anymore, even within the independent living ideology which is supposed to empower me, and once did. But the cost of my battle is that I am not a person I like very much, at least on some points, like getting stout.

Speaking frankly as I am want to do, I am left sometimes with the impression that you lash out against me, or some of my views becasue of your bitterness about some of the chocies you have made for yourself in your life. Perhaps because some of my ideas reflect some of your past actions or thinking it makes an easy target, or just opens a sore spot with some of your own regrets.

The way I choose to live my own life has no raffect upon you whatsoever. It is my right to do as I will as long as I don't break any laws in the process. So there is little since in being angry at me if I do not behave in a manner which you think I should.

[isidro]

How wonderful you are, Dark Muse, for posting such a wonderful, thought provoking idea!

I have historically struggled between philanthropist and misanthrope but neither necessarily dictates my attention to what others think of me personally. Very lately, however, it has come to my attention that many people tend to shun the bad opinions others have of them but welcome the good ones. If we truly do not care, we also cannot care if people truly love and appreciate us, and to ignore something like that negates, in my opinion, many of the sweeter and dearer things of life. As I was suicidal for many years partly due to abuse I certainly understand the wisdom of throwing people's opinions to the side, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Great thread, Dark Muse! Bravo!

[Dark Muse]

If we truly do not care, we also cannot care if people truly love and appreciate us, and to ignore something like that negates, in my opinion, many of the sweeter and dearer things of life. As I was suicidal for many years partly due to abuse I certainly understand the wisdom of throwing people's opinions to the side, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Interesting thoughts, and for me that line acutally is a bit of a gray area. On the one hand I do not truly in retroyspect care if people like me or not. I do not make an effort to be liked, nor seek out human companionship. But I do have my small group of friends, though it was through simple chance that we met, and found things in common, and I am not a different person with them, then I am anywhere else, and they simply take me as I am, but I do have close bounds with my friends and I have I do have a certain consideration for them that I do not have for the rest of the populace. So I suppose the way I feel about it, I don't feel like I truly need to think of other people appercaiting me, but if I should so happen to find a kindered soul in another person than I won't shun it.