Off to England

[Petrarch's Love]

Petrarch, best thing about you going away is, that in the last week, we have seen more of you then usual. It's been awhile and I missed your insightful posts.

That's an interesting quote from Othello, one of my all-time favorite plays; Iago being my favorite enigmatic villan.

Thanks Janine. How sweet of you. I have enjoyed popping in here a little more often myself since this thread can fit conveniently under the category of "useful and necessary trip preparation." I'll have to see if I can fit in some more time for this place when I get back to Chicago in November since I enjoy the interesting posts of all my insightful friends here.

Read William Cobbett's "Cottage Economy" for a full account of ale, beer and small beer.
The ale is the proper stuff, the first brewed, for special occasions.

Then you add the more water to the left over malt ,hops etc (the mash) and boil it up, and that makes your beer for every day drinking.

Repeat the process again and you have small beer, fit only for children and women.

In the same chapter he has some interesting opinions on Tea - the ruination of the English working man.

What? Read about beer when I shall very soon be in a position to hop down to a local pub and sample a pint? Sounds like a fun read. I may check it out.

Another book that liberally mentions the brew is Thomas Hardy's Under the Greenwood Tree. If I recall collectly, they had a secret receipe which they all indulged in and there is a most humorous scene when they (having been the former choir which has been replaced) sabotage the new church organ....it's an entertaining book.

That does sound funny, Janine. I've never read Under the Greenwood Tree sounds like one I should put on my list.

[TheFifthElement]

Is 'Carry on Fashion' a Scottish phrase?

No; traditional Scottish phrases always involve, in some respects, whisky or Carlsberg Special Brew
In this respect I was referring to that other British Institution, the Carry On movie to which the catchphrase 'ooer missus' is accredited.

Do they have lobster and shrimp up there in Scotland or in England? All I hear about primarily, is this 'Fish and Chips'; now that is fried, right? I don't even know what type fish that is; just that I think it is a white fish - is it cod or flounder? I don't really eat fried food, so that could be slightly problematic.

There is lobster and shrimp, but I don't think in Scotland. Lobster is considered a delicacy, you'd pay through the nose for it. More traditional British fayre would be cockles, winkles, mussels and oysters.
The fish in fish n' chips would usually be either cod or haddock and yes it is deep fried, as are the chips. Not healthy, but very tasty especially when liberally doused in salt and malt vinegar. Yum

I had heard of the fish and chips, being sold in a newspaper; maybe I saw that portrayed in a movie. Interesting...glad they switched to plain paper...seems more sensible/sanitary.

Ah, I think back to the old days with a fond, teary eye. When the switch came, a nation mourned.

Is some form of pickle or chutney considered required for the consumption of a cheddar sandwich? Would simply eating bread and cheese be considered taboo?

It's not compulsory, but then the cheese used in sandwiches is not generally the best quality cheddar so a nice pickle or chutney helps to lift the flavour. If you were eating cheese & bread (which is permissible) you could go without the chutney, but be prepared to be frowned on Of course no one would say anything directly, but if you notice some disparaging glances and a general muttering around then you've definitely committed a faux pas.

Will my choice of chutney immediately cause people to leap to judgments concerning my character?

Definitely

In the same chapter he has some interesting opinions on Tea - the ruination of the English working man.

Ah, tea. Now there's another minefield!

[prendrelemick]

William Cobbett on tea..


32. It must be evident to every one, that the practice of tea drinking must render the frame feeble and unfit to encounter hard labour or severe weather, while, as I have shown, it deducts from the means of replenishing the belly and covering the back. Hence succeeds a softness, an effeminacy, a seeking for the fire-side, a lurking in the bed, and, in short, all the characteristics of idleness, for which, in this case, real want of strength furnishes an apology. The tea drinking fills the public-house, makes the frequenting of it habitual, corrupts boys as soon as they are able to move from home, and does little less for the girls, to whom the gossip of the tea-table is no bad preparatory school for the brothel .

http://www.jbsumner.com/pages/brewin...s/cobbett.html

[MarkBastable]

William Cobbett on tea..


32. It must be evident to every one, that the practice of tea drinking must render the frame feeble and unfit to encounter hard labour or severe weather, while, as I have shown, it deducts from the means of replenishing the belly and covering the back. Hence succeeds a softness, an effeminacy, a seeking for the fire-side, a lurking in the bed, and, in short, all the characteristics of idleness, for which, in this case, real want of strength furnishes an apology. The tea drinking fills the public-house, makes the frequenting of it habitual, corrupts boys as soon as they are able to move from home, and does little less for the girls, to whom the gossip of the tea-table is no bad preparatory school for the brothel .

http://www.jbsumner.com/pages/brewin...s/cobbett.html

Replace the word 'tea' with 'cannabis' and that could be a letter to the Daily Mail.

[Emil Miller]

William Cobbett on tea..


32. It must be evident to every one, that the practice of tea drinking must render the frame feeble and unfit to encounter hard labour or severe weather, while, as I have shown, it deducts from the means of replenishing the belly and covering the back. Hence succeeds a softness, an effeminacy, a seeking for the fire-side, a lurking in the bed, and, in short, all the characteristics of idleness, for which, in this case, real want of strength furnishes an apology.

No pun intended but he's got me off to a tee.

[MANICHAEAN]

Brian
You must stop indulging in humour. 90% of Lit Net, all of the Shakespeare fundamentalists & the Moderator has got you down as confrontational. Dont disappoint them.

[Janine]

Thanks Janine. How sweet of you. I have enjoyed popping in here a little more often myself since this thread can fit conveniently under the category of "useful and necessary trip preparation." I'll have to see if I can fit in some more time for this place when I get back to Chicago in November since I enjoy the interesting posts of all my insightful friends here.

I meant it sincerely. I know when people teach they are super busy and sometimes, especially when we are disgusing some play of Shakespeare's, I think it's unfortunate you are not there to add your expertise to the discussion. I highly regard your broad knowledge in that field and others and give you the utmost respect.

I am glad all this talk of food and other things has helped you out. If you go to see Blenheim Palace, be sure and take lots of photos. I would love to go there and see also the interior. It must be something. Part of it is indeed open for tours. Another place I would love to visit is Shepperton Studios, in London, right? Just to think of all the great films that have been shot there. Of course, all of London would hold my interest. I would have to see the Tower of London, just to recall how many Shakespeare characters were sent there, many never to return to life. I loved Niamh's recent tour via photos she took and posted. I think all of the places she saw look fascinating.

What? Read about beer when I shall very soon be in a position to hop down to a local pub and sample a pint? Sounds like a fun read. I may check it out.

Hhaha...reading about beer? Sounds like more fun sampling it firsthand!

That does sound funny, Janine. I've never read Under the Greenwood Tree sounds like one I should put on my list.

It's an amusing novel; not very long one; sometime you should read it. There is also a TV movie that is quite lovely and beautifully filmed...the young actor (James Murray) playing the romantic lead, Dick Dewey, is handsome and adorable; he also plays Paul Morel's older brother, in a more recent adaptation of Sons and Lovers; Sara Lancashire plays Mrs. Morel. I would highly recommend. Of course, you know the title is after Shakespeare's 'Greenwood Tree' reference.

oops...I meant to write 'correctly' and not 'collectly'...I don't even think there exists a word collectly....oh silly me, bad typist!

[Emil Miller]

Brian
You must stop indulging in humour. 90% of Lit Net, all of the Shakespeare fundamentalists & the Moderator has got you down as confrontational. Dont disappoint them.

As is indeed their entitlement if such be the case. However, if nobody protests at what they perceive to be totallity of agreement, there is a danger that the forum would degenerate into a mutual admiration society of questionable value.

[prendrelemick]

"If there are ten people in a room and they all agree, nine of them needn't be there."

So says my Gran.

[Emil Miller]

"If there are ten people in a room and they all agree, nine of them needn't be there."

So says my Gran.

Grannies know best.

[qimissung]

If you venture north Petrarch you can call pants 'pants'. 'Trousers' is a posh southern word (ergo, presumed as being 'correct' albeit that no southerner I've encountered has ever been able to explain the 'underpants paradox!).



Ah, the old British food is rubbish cliche. Tut tut, not very polite now is it. Let's take this thought further. Yes chicken tikka masala and balti are tasteless slop. The sandwich - no potential. Cheddar, Stilton, Double Gloucester, Wensleydale, Cheshire cheese, like eating chewy rubber. Cornish pastie - vomit in pastry. Scones, victoria sponge cake, Bakewell tart, Chelsea buns, Eccles cakes, parkin cake, mince pies, hot cross buns, treacle tart, bread and butter pudding, rhubarb crumble, summer fruit pudding, trifle, banoffee pie, jam roly poly, knickerbocker glory, biscuits - vile. Lancashire hotpot, Steak and Ale pie, pork pie, cheese and onion pie, shepherds pie, cottage pie, apple pie, any pie, bangers n' mash, toad in the hole, fish n' chips (real chips), Beef Wellington, the traditional Sunday roast beef with yorkshire pudding and English mustard, or if you prefer roast lamb with mint sauce or roast pork with apple sauce - yukky! Then there's the sauces: worcestershire sauce, HP sauce, tomato sauce, horseradish. Branston pickle, piccalilli, pickled onions, chutney. Chuck-upney, more like. Arbroath smokies, haggis, rarebit, neaps n' tatties. Disgusting. Then there's the confectionery - kitkats, smarties, aeros, fruit pastilles, rolos, dairy milk, crunchie, wispa, boost, picnic, flake, fudge and chocolate buttons...that'd be everything by Cadbury's, Rowntree MacIntosh (now Nestle) - filth. Not forgetting the English breakfast - the least flavoursome way to start your day, unless you prefer the toasted crumpet. Yep, loads of examples of really rubbish food. The list is endless.

Petrarch - if you can, try and get to the Royal Shakespeare Company in Stratford upon Avon. It's a really atmospheric way to see Shakespeare, they have fantastic actors and a lovely place to boot. Details of what's on: http://www.rsc.org.uk/whatson/WhatsOn.aspx

I don't know if English food is good, Fifth, but it sure sounds good! The names alone are glorious. I know I would love Bubble and Squeak and Shepherd's Pie. There is a version of both that I eat. My mother made Shepherd's Pie for us when we were growing up. I don't know if it would be recognizable to you as such, but I found it hot, savory, and delicious after a long day of school and play.

And never will I forget the episode of "All Creatures Great and Small" where Tristan volunteered to cook for a week. It turned out his repertoire consisted of Bangers and Mash, and more Bangers and Mash.

Have loads of fun, Petrarch's Love. I'm looking forward to stories and pictures upon your return. Maybe you could blog abut it while you're there.

[Janine]

Petrarch, a thought just came to me; you will have to take photos of all the exotic English delicacies you eat!

[Petrarch's Love]

Petrarch, a thought just came to me; you will have to take photos of all the exotic English delicacies you eat!

A brilliant idea, Janine! I shall have to document some of my culinary experiences to share with the litnetters here. No doubt this shall mean that I will soon acquire a reputation among the English as an American with eccentric habits who photographs her food on a regular basis, but one must occasionally embrace eccentricity.

[MANICHAEAN]

Petrarch
The English are quite fond of eccentrics & we have more than our fair share. The French on the other hand would regard eccentricity as normal behaviour.

[Petrarch's Love]

Hi there! Having now been in England for nearly two weeks and got a little internet time, I have revisited our vibrant discussion of British cuisine so that I may warn my fellow US citizens of the horrors they can expect on this side of the pond. Take care, oh dwellers of the land of my birth, for they do smoother everything with a mixture of HP and tomato and they make one eat nothing but bland boiled mutton and gray, mashed vegetables. Oh beware! I have lost weight. I have grown gaunt and faint. I am hardly certain that I shall be able to survive long enough to drag myself to the Bodleian again tomorrow....

I have written an entire blog on the subject so that my fellow Americans can be appropriately wary. Simply click here http://www.online-literature.com/forums/blog.php?b=8955 Here is a preview of the torturous account to come: