School Bells

[Hurricane]

I would argue that science degrees have a lot more options than the "big three" for the humanities (education, law, business). It's possible to do something like be an English major who goes on to med school, but with the amount of coursework you would have to do outside of your major to fulfill the requirements, it'd almost be more worth it to double major with Biology or something.
The science major probably would make more right out of the gate than the humanities major since they're generally in higher demand, but more of the "super-rich" are humanities major types thanks to business. The "odds" of doing well are higher in the sciences, but if you really applied yourself to business (or certain types of law, I guess) as a humanities type, you can go pretty far.
That being said, it's pointless to major in something you dislike just because of a job. I know a fair amount of kids who are aero engineering majors because they want to be astronauts and therefore need an engineering degree. But they're often miserable studying aero, which would mean they would probably hate being astronauts, since they have to do lots of advanced study (usually need an MS in engineering to even be considered) and calculations in the field as part of the job.

It is all really how you apply yourself, and how well you do that determines anything

Truth. If I were hiring for a job where a strong math background wasn't necessarily important, I would take the 3.9 Political Science Major over the 2.0 Physics Major any day, even though the Poli Sci guy probably had an easier time in college.

[JBI]

I would argue that science degrees have a lot more options than the "big three" for the humanities (education, law, business). It's possible to do something like be an English major who goes on to med school, but with the amount of coursework you would have to do outside of your major to fulfill the requirements, it'd almost be more worth it to double major with Biology or something.
The science major probably would make more right out of the gate than the humanities major since they're generally in higher demand, but more of the "super-rich" are humanities major types thanks to business. The "odds" of doing well are higher in the sciences, but if you really applied yourself to business (or certain types of law, I guess) as a humanities type, you can go pretty far.
That being said, it's pointless to major in something you dislike just because of a job. I know a fair amount of kids who are aero engineering majors because they want to be astronauts and therefore need an engineering degree. But they're often miserable studying aero, which would mean they would probably hate being astronauts, since they have to do lots of advanced study (usually need an MS in engineering to even be considered) and calculations in the field as part of the job.



Truth. If I were hiring for a job where a strong math background wasn't necessarily important, I would take the 3.9 Political Science Major over the 2.0 Physics Major any day, even though the Poli Sci guy probably had an easier time in college.

It depends - for instance, I know people in Sciences and Commerce who dread having to work in humanities, because of language restrictions - some people don't do well, because, quite simply their ability at writing, whether based on upbringing, or other factors, such as being new to the host language, or an inability to read slowly, is lacking. This doesn't mean they aren't smart - I would wager, to do very well in any subject one needs to work very, very hard. Some people's backgrounds just aren't as accustomed to the trends of humanist study, and are more suited for scientific study - it is all relative.

A friend of mine, coming from China, thought taking Chinese history she would get a perfect, because she already knew everything. But what ended up happening, as is generally the case, was that come test time, the language restriction at formulating and quickly writing a persuasive essay hindered her, and she still ended up with an average mark - likewise, my brother, who is a science-oriented person, and hasn't read a book in his life, come med-school application time, ended up giving me a call to write his application for him, since, quite simply, he is unable to answer those essay questions persuasively. The actual difficulty of any course is relatively subjective, I think it is just some of the time, where sciences are concerned, that a lot of people, who study extremely hard end up there, because they believe medical school is a sure path to happiness in life - the averages though, are still C+ - B-, so it all depends.

I don't personally feel that my college degree is any easier than someone else's - I know how much effort I put into the study of languages to know that it isn't an easy task.

But, then again, if I was just taking English, I may think that, as a major, it would probably be the easiest thing in the world for me - of everything I seem to have the least difficulty reading and writing about English works, especially poetry. But can other people do that? Give most people a poem beyond "I wandered lonely as a cloud" and they more often than not will be completely lost - good luck writing about one then, and saying something that nobody else could come up with, in a better way than anyone else's writing.

Lets be honest - saying The Road Not Taken is a great praise of individuality, and on pursuing one's own dreams may work in high school, but I think professors of English know better - the methods of thinking for people who don't read certain genres simply don't develop, and, quite simply, many people are not capable of reading many texts as a result - whereas, in contrast, many people are not particularly good at scientific understanding, and would struggle in a biology classroom (I'm probably one of them) - quite simply, it is not something I enjoy, and not something I have the least bit of interest in - generally speaking though, it depends on how one really develops as a learner.

[Hurricane]

I guess what I'm getting at with "easier" is that most humanities majors have to take fewer credits (and generally get more leeway with electives and the courses they do take) and that grading could be construed as more lenient.
If you get a calculus problem wrong, it's wrong. If you hand in an essay, even if it's poorly written and even factually wrong, it's pretty rare that the teacher will hand it back with a zero scribbled on it.
I spend a lot of time doing research, reading, and writing for my history classes, and I put hard work into it. It's hard to get an A in almost any class, but I'd argue that it's easier to get say, a C in English than Electrical Engineering, just because of the more subjective nature of grading for humanities courses.
I'll agree with you though that reading/writing skills are not necessarily "easy": my roommate (chem major, very smart) by her own admission writes like a fifth grader and hasn't read a book since "Holes" in seventh grade. She nearly cried when I mentioned that the medical school admissions tests usually have a writing component. However, she still managed an A in English class.

[Annamariah]

It makes no difference though, in terms of income, a Bachelors of Science, in general sciences, like life science isn't really going to make all that much more over a Bachelors of Arts. The main appeal, I think, is graduate school, notably medical school, where I wager the bulk of people here at least dream of ending up.

At least here almost no one who goes to university leaves their studies when they've got their Bacherlor's Degree, almost everyone continues until they are Masters in the subject they started to study. People who want to go to medical school go there straight after upper secondary school (a Finnish equivalent for high-school) if they just can pass the exams (many people take the entrance exam several times, maybe going to work for a couple of years if they won't get in immediately), it's not like they at first study in the University of Technology and then continue in med school.

I don't know what's included in the Faculty of Arts in other countries, but here it's just languages, literature, philosophy and history and such. Mostly things that won't lead to any profession, really, unless you're planning to become a translator or a teacher (languages or history). Gender studies might be interesting, but not very useful when it comes to earning your living.

[AmericanEagle]

The actual difficulty of any course is relatively subjective

I agree. I have been fooled a couple of times by the Anti-Calendar.

If you get a calculus problem wrong, it's wrong. If you hand in an essay, even if it's poorly written and even factually wrong, it's pretty rare that the teacher will hand it back with a zero scribbled on it.
I spend a lot of time doing research, reading, and writing for my history classes, and I put hard work into it. It's hard to get an A in almost any class, but I'd argue that it's easier to get say, a C in English than Electrical Engineering, just because of the more subjective nature of grading for humanities courses.

By that same token, I would say that it is easier to get an A in the sciences than in the arts.

it just happens in the arts that there are a lot of meh people, whereas in sciences, at least here, they seem to filter out a lot faster (the difference being, I suspect, that it is easier, financially, to support more arts students than science students).

I just saw on the news today that 1 in 6 first year university students in Canada will drop out. Professors blame that on inadequate preparation in high school.

[JBI]

It probably, I would wager, has something to do with university culture as well - some people think listening to recordings, or getting somebody's notes is equal to going to class, and working hard a few days before exams, or on essays ending up being finished over night is doing as well as one should - drinking has something to do with it as well, I would wager.

It goes beyond that too though - for instance, if I were to go out drinking with my friends more often, I would end up tossing about 10-20$ every time I go out, which would eventually end up taking a toll - the only way to counterbalance that, for most people, is to get a part time job - in that sense then, it takes double the time up one would spend studying or whatever to socialize - not that socializing isn't important, but it depends how one approaches such things.

For instance, I meet with a friend of mine often, and we study together - I help her with her English (mostly helping her understand idiomatic phrases and common-place metaphors), whereas she helps me with my Chinese - the cost - maybe a few dollars for coffee.


I think the general idea is that university, especially undergrad, if one wants to be serious, is a time when one is supposed to live in almost poverty, and make sacrifices - some are willing to, others are not - some do well, some do not. It's all about what you put into it.

[AmericanEagle]

or on essays ending up being finished over night

Don't tell me you've never pulled all-nighters

the only way to counterbalance that, for most people, is to get a part time job - in that sense then, it takes double the time up one would spend studying

I have a part-time job, but I don't think that it interferes with my studying. If anything, it teaches you to manage your time more wisely.

[JBI]

Don't tell me you've never pulled all-nighters



I have a part-time job, but I don't think that it interferes with my studying. If anything, it teaches you to manage your time more wisely.

It's not that though - I always pull all nighters with essays - but that isn't because I need to, but because I slave to get them just perfect - I haven't in my university career yet started a work the day before it was due, if it was anything major. I will, more often than not, have the whole concept of the essay, with essentially the structure of it lined up in my head at least a week before it is due, if possible - the reason I stay up, is always, as long as I can help it, to edit it to as perfect a state as I can manage, not to write the things - I know people who don't edit - I don't do anything but edit - actually writing the thing takes only a couple of hours - editing takes several days, and is never finished.


I think another problem is people are too afraid to ask questions, or go in to see their professors - I think though, that some people learn quickly that these people should, if they are any good, be approachable - that's one lesson some people just don't pick up on though.

[Niamh]

At least here almost no one who goes to university leaves their studies when they've got their Bacherlor's Degree, almost everyone continues until they are Masters in the subject they started to study. People who want to go to medical school go there straight after upper secondary school (a Finnish equivalent for high-school) if they just can pass the exams (many people take the entrance exam several times, maybe going to work for a couple of years if they won't get in immediately), it's not like they at first study in the University of Technology and then continue in med school.

Its the same here. When we do our leaving cert our results add up as points. every course is a certain amount of points. People who want to do Med/ Nursing will go straight into colleges that provide courses for these professions. Like the main universities and the Royal College of Surgeons. People who want to study computing generally go to the Institutes of Technology, but many of these have broadened there course ranges, and some now offer nursing. I went to an IT in Dundalk and studied Applied Cultural Studies. Most offer courses in computing, engineering, construction, science, Business, finance and accounting.
We also have separate schools for Business and Art colleges. You wouldnt have every single area of study under one roof here.

I don't know what's included in the Faculty of Arts in other countries, but here it's just languages, literature, philosophy and history and such. Mostly things that won't lead to any profession, really, unless you're planning to become a translator or a teacher (languages or history). Gender studies might be interesting, but not very useful when it comes to earning your living.

Thats kind of what the Faculty of Arts here is like too, but you generally start off with i think three subjects (some combinations arent allowed) and by the end of your degree you've majored on one. for example, could study English, celtic studies and archaeology and end up with a BA in Archaeology. There is only one college in Ireland, Sligo Institute of Technology, that offers Archaeology as a BSc. If you want to be a teacher here, you have a couple of options; do a H-Dip when you get your BA or go to a teaching college.

[Hurricane]

Question for people at other colleges: my college has mandatory attendance for all classes, but most don't. Many of my friends at other schools complain when a professor has mando attendance since they "have to show up". I don't really get why you wouldn't go to class when you're paying up to $50,000 to be there.
Is this pretty common at other schools?

[papayahed]

When I first attended there wasn't a mandatory attendance policy (10 + years ago) but there is at my current university. It really surprised me, are kids more irresponsible?? In the syllabus it said that grades will be lowered by one grade if you miss "X" amount of days and you will get a failure if you miss "Y" amount. I don't know how much it's enforced though, due to work I missed two straight weeks of class and missed classes here and there so I know I was between X and Y but still received an A.

[Annamariah]

Its the same here. When we do our leaving cert our results add up as points. every course is a certain amount of points. People who want to do Med/ Nursing will go straight into colleges that provide courses for these professions. Like the main universities and the Royal College of Surgeons. People who want to study computing generally go to the Institutes of Technology, but many of these have broadened there course ranges, and some now offer nursing. I went to an IT in Dundalk and studied Applied Cultural Studies. Most offer courses in computing, engineering, construction, science, Business, finance and accounting.
We also have separate schools for Business and Art colleges. You wouldnt have every single area of study under one roof here.

In Helsinki University you can study almost anything as a minor (we have several faculties in different parts of the city), though some subjects requrire you to take an exam you must pass in order to be allowed to study said subject, and for example medicine isn't something you can just read for a couple of credits, it's pretty much out of bounds for those who aren't med students We can also take some courses from other universities in the area (most likely Helsinki University of Technologyor Helsinki School of Economics), if we want to.

If you want to be a teacher here, you have a couple of options; do a H-Dip when you get your BA or go to a teaching college.

Here if you want to become a teacher, you have to take pedagogy as a large minor in addition to whichever happens to be your major that you'd like to teach one day.

Question for people at other colleges: my college has mandatory attendance for all classes, but most don't. Many of my friends at other schools complain when a professor has mando attendance since they "have to show up". I don't really get why you wouldn't go to class when you're paying up to $50,000 to be there.
Is this pretty common at other schools?

We have mandatory attendance to certain courses, but some you can opt to take as a book exam. In translation most classes require attendance, though, and a book exam is not an option.

We don't, however, pay anything to be allowed to be there, unless you count the 80€ we pay for the membership of the student union each year as some sort of an tuition fee

[AmericanEagle]

I haven't in my university career yet started a work the day before it was due, if it was anything major.

I bet you're the only person at U of T who has never procrastinated

whereas she helps me with my Chinese.

Your Mandarin is probably better than mine . Though I have picked up some words and phrases in Mandarin from my workplace.

[JBI]

i bet you're the only person at u of t who has never procrastinated



your mandarin is probably better than mine . Though i have picked up some words and phrases in mandarin from my workplace.

你是華人嗎？

Anyway, I procrastinate on other things - like vocabulary and stuff - grammar comes easy, but vocab is tricky for me, so I am often writing furiously right before the test, trying to hammer it into my head.

[papayahed]

Whoooo Hoooo! First test down.