Influence of Greek Myths

[JBI]

I think that Greek myths have influence on literature as a whole not only on the 19th century literature for they are the first stories in humanity & they where the first literature that had influence on literature as a whole...

First stories in humanity? The tradition itself, as a written form, is no older than 3000 years old (being written down mostly in Alexandria much later), similar to the age of the Vedas, Upninishads, and far younger than the Oracle Bone writing of Ancient China (though that wasn't predominantly narrative), or the pictographic writings of Sumeria, Egypt, or various other systems from all over the world. Greek culture isn't the oldest, and the oral tradition there isn't, since life there wasn't the first place, so evidently it its stories aren't the oldest.

On the whole though, they are pretty old, and based on a rather misinformed reverence for classical models, due to the fall of Rome, and the subsequent descent into what was thought of as a "dark age", Greek myths became a sort of foundation for literature (more often than not found with Roman equivalents transposed into the Greek frame). The reliance on Greek then, can be attributed to a self-conscious, masochistic culture, that somehow kept seeing itself as inferior.

The novel though, has generally been apart from there. The reason is, quite simply, it is dominated by narrative, over metaphor. Metaphor is less central, and therefore the myth is replaced with concrete examples, or fanciful imaginings. The educated Greek system, reserved for an elite schooled in Greek and Roman thought, would generally not really suit the audience at any rate - certainly the myths by this point had lost their original flavor in a world ruled by change backed up by a perceived sense of social injustice, and failed opportunity. The 18th century preoccupation of rich wig-wearing aristocrats writing idylls about shepherdesses had, quite simply, lost its flavor, as the audience - the reading public - began to change rapidly.

Later on, the Greek would make a comeback, as all mythology would, in a sense, because the myths themselves were reshaped, thanks to the help of a body of scholarship, preaching that these myths were fundamental to the subconscious of Humanity, and were the structures of all our thought - notably, the book "The Golden Bough", which had a direct influence on Eliot, for instance, as well as other works, including Freud, Jung, and later thinkers like Campbell and Frye.

Without this interpretation, or reverence, quite simply, it can be argued, the Greek flavor didn't hold. The tastes of exoticism were pulled mostly toward a sense of Gothic - the romantic castle where the murders took place, or a sort of spooky church or glen. I won't hesitate to throw Scotland as a whole into the frame of "literary preoccupation", in a sort of colonial, romanticized view of Scotland, facilitated by Walter Scott, as well as highly romanticized themes brought in from Medieval traditions, also facilitated by Walter Scott. There quite simply, was no preoccupation with the Greek tradition within the frame of 19th century romanticized settings, the way such settings attracted renaissance writers.

[kelby_lake]

I think there is little basis for the argument. Poetry, I can understand, but novels? Certainly not most 19th century novels.

It would be better to do the influence of Greek tragedy, as you can fit characters and novels much easier to that.

[ReflectionOfSky]

Allusions are everywhere, i challenge the collective masses of lit.net to find a book without one (obviously not including picture books and children's "learn to read" novels but then again, if it was so obvious, i wouldn't be typing this right now would I?).

[DanielBenoit]

Greek literature and mythology have inluenced almost the whole of Western literature.

[mal4mac]

I can't see how you avoid seeing allusions. If any character goes on a journey isn't that an allusion to the Odyssey? If there's a fight scene isn't that an allusion to the Iliad? I read Nicholas Nickleby at the same time as the Iliad and I was continually seeing him as slightly more benign Achilles. But did Dickens have that allusion in mind? I guess he had to. If you know the Greek myths, as we do, as the Victiorians did, then you can't help bringing them in.

I can't choose any of the options:

Greek myths are part of the foundation of all novels, but so are Christian myths and much else.

Novels cannot shape themselves, they require an author who is shaped by many influences.

Allusions always do more work than just clarifying a scene or character. They give a scene greater aesthetic value, they are never just cognitive.

There is obviously a relationship between Greek myths and everything in modern culture! (If sometimes distant...)

[Drkshadow03]

I can't see how you avoid seeing allusions. If any character goes on a journey isn't that an allusion to the Odyssey? If there's a fight scene isn't that an allusion to the Iliad? I read Nicholas Nickleby at the same time as the Iliad and I was continually seeing him as slightly more benign Achilles. But did Dickens have that allusion in mind? I guess he had to. If you know the Greek myths, as we do, as the Victiorians did, then you can't help bringing them in.

I can't choose any of the options:

Greek myths are part of the foundation of all novels, but so are Christian myths and much else.

Novels cannot shape themselves, they require an author who is shaped by many influences.

Allusions always do more work than just clarifying a scene or character. They give a scene greater aesthetic value, they are never just cognitive.

There is obviously a relationship between Greek myths and everything in modern culture! (If sometimes distant...)

Sometimes the newer work is commenting on the allusion too and revising the original myth. So the new work sometimes clarifies the original myth.

[KryStaLitsa]

but it isn't just myths that influence a writer...there are so many elements for that.Art can't be created out of thin air.There's always an influence needed,so that inspiration comes.

[dfloyd]

most educated people then had had a classical education and Greek allusions could be understood by most. One author fond of using Greek allusions in metaphor and simile was Alexandre Dumas pere. The Count of Monte Cristo is full of such allusions .... simply because most readily understood them without looking them up in a classical dictionary.

[mono]

I can't see how you avoid seeing allusions. If any character goes on a journey isn't that an allusion to the Odyssey? If there's a fight scene isn't that an allusion to the Iliad? I read Nicholas Nickleby at the same time as the Iliad and I was continually seeing him as slightly more benign Achilles. But did Dickens have that allusion in mind? I guess he had to. If you know the Greek myths, as we do, as the Victiorians did, then you can't help bringing them in.

Good points, mal4mac, but I may not go that far. Undoubtedly, undocumented journeys exists before the oral tradition of The Odyssey and countless more battles existed before the composition of The Iliad. Both of Homer's works prove old and aged, but perhaps not that old. The Victorians and Romantics (first and second generation) placed a lot of emphasis on Greco-Roman myth and literature, some more obviously than others, but some glimmer of originality must exist there also, whether depicted in less obvious allusions or not; in my opinion, not everything written in that era seemed a tribute to Greco-Roman literature. Nicholas Nickleby does not, in its entirety, have to refer to The Iliad; the journeys, trials, and tribulations of Moby Dick do not completely allude to The Odyssey; Hans Christian Andersen's tales do not entirely refer to Aesop's Fables; and, despite what Dr. Sigmund Freud said, not every male and female conflict, such as portrayed in The Portrait of a Lady, bears a center in Sophocles' Oedipus.
Not only in western literature, but also in western thought, I believe common values exist, and, considering that most writers seem at least half-well-learned, we build much of our education, from early to late, in Greco-Roman myth and literature. We have surrounded ourselves so entirely with this genre of literature, that it has ended up even in common phrases, as we now refer to our undeniable weaknesses as our "Achilles' heel(s)," we call someone strong as having "Herculean strength," the "Allegory of the Cave," I have no doubt, seems one of the most commonly cited and abused metaphors, and, in popular business, the Starbucks emblem bears a siren, singing to lure customers to its second-rate islands that exist on every other city block. Whether an acclaimed writer or not, how we each have enveloped ourselves in Greco-Roman myth from a young age to current, it would astound me if we could not refer to such literature in our writings (whether in the 19th century or contemporary), thoughts, speech, etc., but some element of creativity must exist, even in the obvious allusions of Joyce's Ulysses, because it requires no genius to write a widely-read book (yes, I really said it), yet it takes no idiot to fully comprehend Greco-Roman literature.