not at all. it just took me 100 times as long to say it.
not at all. it just took me 100 times as long to say it.
Haha sorry,
thanks
I can't agree, and watching kids has hardened my belief to certainty that the responses are conditioned.Originally Posted by limajean
About time we disagreed on something!
The unruly idea is still explained by societal constructs. If we were conditioned to love spiders, we'd love spiders. There are lots of psychological experiments we can do which show this clearly.
This tells me that you might be just confusing things - the chemical doesn't make us love someone/thing - we are attracted to things/people because we've learned it, then the chemical kicks in.
Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."
Anon
How one deals with it will determine the amount of drama.Just accept it?
Wow! Life is going to be pretty dang boring from here on out!
You're putting the cart before the horse. You may deny the existence of the chemical for caring, but it still exists.
I totally agree on all of this, to a point though. We are all conditioned, it doesn’t matter who or what, if you have been raised, you have been conditioned, but, at some point, there are some who question, ask why and seek beyond what it is they were taught, (that in it self is conditioned thought). We are also conditioned to “accept” answers out of ignorance and fear, we are afraid to step outside of the social order because we are conditioned to be of a social species.
A perfect example of conditioned thought is this forum, it’s literature! By the responses of many here, we are conditioned as to what is good and acceptable in terms of quality, not so much from individual experience, (I learned as a Lit major, my teacher said, it’s popular therefore it must be good) We are told what to understand, but not how to understand for our selves. Just look at the arguments about what some 300 year old dead poet really meant in his poem! There are the “science is all” conditioned here too, evidence and proof are their gods, it’s their belief and they hold that line as strong as any religious fanatic, their blinders just face a different way, I don’t need to even bring up the “religion conditioned”. We are socially trained to be acceptable puppets who jockey to get to a higher more esteemed level in that controlled group, pushing, nudging to be noticed while still seeking acceptance from those who we push and nudge against. We are conditioned for the answer, not the question, to be questioning shows weakness in our current culture.
The topic is love, and we have been conditioned since we were born and have been strangled with it as a form of guilt in disguise, an owing/owning, a debt to be repaid, something to be feared or strived for, it’s a powerful marketing tool, a blinder to wear and socially acceptable when presented in front of the “right” people, but, what is it? Our conditioned society says it’s one thing, religion and science another and we all know, in order for something to be “right” we need many to agree, I however, do not agree and will not “accept” what I once was taught. So I guess it comes down to what the definition of love is and what the conditioning is that we are talking about.
Atheist and PeterL, when I said it’s going to get pretty boring from here on out, I was being sarcastic, “note the grin icon”. I don’t give up the ghost that easily, I do not put love on a mystical higher plain and I have no tolerance for artificial sociably conditioned drama.
Humans can start to operate outside of the conditioning, when they become aware that there is conditioning. The first and paramount conditioning is imposed by DNA, which is concerned with survival and reproduction above all else. The emotion of love exists as a mechanism for DNA to reproduce itself. The various sorts of cosial conditioning are of little consequence in comparison to the chemicals that our bodies produce.
A perfect example of conditioned thought is this forum, it’s literature! By the responses of many here, we are conditioned as to what is good and acceptable in terms of quality, not so much from individual experience, (I learned as a Lit major, my teacher said, it’s popular therefore it must be good) We are told what to understand, but not how to understand for our selves. Just look at the arguments about what some 300 year old dead poet really meant in his poem! There are the “science is all” conditioned here too, evidence and proof are their gods, it’s their belief and they hold that line as strong as any religious fanatic, their blinders just face a different way, I don’t need to even bring up the “religion conditioned”. We are socially trained to be acceptable puppets who jockey to get to a higher more esteemed level in that controlled group, pushing, nudging to be noticed while still seeking acceptance from those who we push and nudge against. We are conditioned for the answer, not the question, to be questioning shows weakness in our current culture.Then how do you choose to define 'love'? I believe that society, religion, and science would agree what it is in the way it is expressed, but there would be some disagreement as to the fundamental nature of it. The discussion here reflects the different interpretations of the nature of love; although I think that we agree as to its effects. Some branches of science consider love and other emotions to be created by society, while the explanation of emotion as chemicals signals that reward or punish behaviour by how well it leads toward survival is held by many people in anthropology and some people in psychology. The problem is that people prefer the illusions to the reality.The topic is love, and we have been conditioned since we were born and have been strangled with it as a form of guilt in disguise, an owing/owning, a debt to be repaid, something to be feared or strived for, it’s a powerful marketing tool, a blinder to wear and socially acceptable when presented in front of the “right” people, but, what is it? Our conditioned society says it’s one thing, religion and science another and we all know, in order for something to be “right” we need many to agree, I however, do not agree and will not “accept” what I once was taught. So I guess it comes down to what the definition of love is and what the conditioning is that we are talking about.
I don't hold to a definition, you however do and that is my point.
How much can one say about something that is undefined?
Amen, brother!
Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."
Anon
Ah, all this talk about "love can be/is defined by science" and "love is more than purely science" has gotten me all lovesick.
Everyone (I think) wants love. Some people more than others. Some don't realize it, and some look too hard for it.
I've seen a lot of light shed on love in this thread, and I'm continuously updating my own feelings and beliefs over it.
I believe now, that there is a thing called love, that has little to do with brain-chemical science.
I also believe, that all that neuro-mumbo jumbo chemical stuff that occurs in our brain really does play a large role in love, too.
To me (and this is liable to change at some point), love is an idea. It has transcended mere chemical processes in the brain to become a 'belief.' Love is many things, and yet it can still be considered a direct and singular thing (ya, I know, "thing" is a really loose and vague term, but get over it for now).
What I think happens is we have these chemical processes and neuro-thingamajigs happen in our brains. We feel 'something' for someone, or something. It's a strong and almost singular feeling. Then our consciousness takes a pass at explaining what we feel. Guess what it rationalizes that feeling as? It's the idea of love.
Almost everyone has grown up hearing about love. You're parents (might have) loved each other. You're friends (might) love their partners. We hear about it, and see it ourselves, and we start to hope for it. It's very strong and persuasive.
We want to believe in it and, since we believe we perceive of it in others (or ourselves), we sometimes really can believe in a thing called love (haha, there's a song or something. . .).
Love is an idea, but it's still love. Sure it's involved with chemicals in your noggin, but an idea isn't as simple as mere chemical processes. I think.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a person's conscience or mind more than mere chemical processes?
Last edited by Insomniac; 07-05-2009 at 12:05 AM. Reason: oopsy, made some terrible mistakes...
Ever wonder if your dreams would make a good story?
Here is a question to ponder...
Is love realy an emotion?
Do you ever say I am feeling love today?
we say I feel happy, sad, and other emotions. we ask are you happy? do you ever say I am love? or Are you Love today? you can add every emotion into those basic statments, except love???
"Be careful of quotes you find on the internet, they may not always be true" -Abraham Lincon-
I hate talk about love. And i hate people who make it out to be non existent or "fake"
It is not simply a chemical reaction, the feeling of it sure, but not love itself. Don't be stupid.
Honestly, talking about it is stupid - either you haven't experienced it, aren't going to experience it, or don't know you have experienced it - best to take it in stride, you'll know if you get there, and if you don't, you'll know you can look forward to something - after all, even if love didn't exist, we would still need to imagine it, because, hate to break it to you guys, a world without love in it is certainly not one worth living in.
There's no chemicals or whatever - or electricity if you are Chinese, but rather merely a working between people that seems to work on a level that words and geeks cannot quite understand - leave it at that.
Haha! I really think you've fallen into a trap here. Just because it's a completely natural reaction doesn't make it any less. Do you get joy from certain tastes? Smells? Sounds?
Responses are individual - the chemicals aren't the emotion, they're why the emotion exists.
Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."
Anon
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