Discussion Group: Confession's of J.J. Rousseau

[Buh4Bee]

Here is the quote I was finally trying to find to describe Rousseau's overly sensitive nature:

"Such were the authors (parents) of my being: of all the gifts it had pleased Heavento bestow on them, a feeling heart was the only one that descended to me; this had been the source of their felicity, it was the foundation of all my misfortunes."

I think in this quote you can perceive Rousseau as being self-pitying or just frustrated by his personality weakness. I'm interested in seeing how Rousseau develops into a young adult.

[Quark]

Thanks for starting up this discussion, jersea. Reading groups and conversations about a single text can be fun, but there are so few of them on LitNet (groups and conversations that is, not text--we have way too many texts actually). When there's just one work to talk about it focuses the discussion, and makes people talk to each other. A lot of the time in other threads people just exchange random opinions, and the conversation doesn't really go anywhere. When everyone has read the same text, though, it keeps people grounded in something that's familiar to everyone. It also holds the conversation to the thread's title. When you join a thread that says "Confessions of J.J. Rousseau" you know the posters are going to be talking about the Confessions. One would think that the thread's title would always be an indication of what's going on inside the thread, but frequently it isn't. Random opinions lead to random topics, and a thread that started out talking about the poems of William Blake turns into an argument over whether popularity is a means for measuring a book's success (a made up example, but not an unfair one). I prefer these kind of reading groups where there's a classic work like the Confessions up for discussion. Right now, I can only post here and there, as I'm still involved with a discussion of Chekhov's short story "The Trousseau." Eventually, though, I hope to post more.

I think Rousseau is charming and sentimental, but another way to perceive this may be self-pitying. One could hear a whiny tone in the writing, which I can detect. I think I am prone to empathize with Rousseau's maladjusted character, because he grew up without a mother.

I detect the self-pity, too, but I give Rousseau some license to be self-pitying. His autobiography is also a tragedy, and what's leading the action is a sense of downfall and sadness. There's also a context to consider--a motherless context, as it turns out. Rousseau's life just isn't that happy, and it's particularly sad from the position he was writing this work. I suppose this is a bit of a spoiler, but Rousseau eventually goes into the exile because of an unfavorable (to say the least) reaction to his Emile and other works. Rousseau is playing a tragic role to cast himself in the role of a victim. While in France, he asserted his views through open declaration, but later in exile it appears that he's trying to use pity to gain support.

I went back and reread the beginning. I believe part of the purpose of Rousseau's introduction is to proclaim to the reader that he is trying to present his life as objectively as possible through this self-reflective process.

True, and that's important. Self-reflection and self-knowledge are key concepts for the book. Earlier autobiographies often emphasized an individual's quest for something--like Augustine looking for God--but Rousseau believes that just being himself is enough. The Confessions is more a matter of acquaintance than it is of accomplishment. Rousseau wants to acquaint us with himself, and isn't so interested in laying out what he's accomplished. The world is only important as it give Rousseau a chance to express himself. William Hazlitt later said in the nineteenth-century that "Rousseau, in a word, interests you in certain objects by interesting you in himself." This can seem egotistical (maybe it just is egotistical), but it's important to how Rousseau sees autobiography.

I also think part of the writing style is somewhat similar to other philosopher at the time. I did read Fear and Trembling by Kierkegaard (Hong) as well as Civil Disobedience by Thoreau and both reminded me of the writing style found in Rousseau's autobiography. Although both Fear and Trembling and Civil Disobedience were written in the mid 1800s.

Those are interesting comparisons. I can see the connection with Thoreau, but I'm not sure about Kierkegaard. That is, I don't doubt the comparison--I just don't know exactly what the comparison you're drawing is.

I don't agree that Rousseau is trying to put himself above others, but trying to be sure he is presenting an accurate and balance narrative of his life by asking the reader to judge his writing and story.

I don't know how he views other people exactly. This is where people like Rousseau, Thoreau, and others of that stripe radically diverge. They all believe that the individual is important, but they each have different approaches to others and society. I'm not entirely sure what Rousseau's approach would be.

[Buh4Bee]

Welcome and thank you for joining the thread, Quark. I was excited to see your post and all your responses to my comments, which, no doubt, were built on the ideas of others that have posted here. We will again have another discussion beginning on Wednesday about Book II. I think we all have different ideas and background knowledge of Rousseau, so it keeps the conversation interesting.

So far, I think it is a great group and am enjoying the blog.

[Buh4Bee]

Here are some reactions I compiled:

Book II is just as entertaining as Book I. Rousseau takes it upon himself again to remind the reader to pay close attention to his stories and his character as he describes the events of his 16th year in great detail.

“I ought to offer an excuse, or justification to the
reader for the great number of unentertaining particulars I am
necessitated to repeat. In pursuance of the resolution I have formed to
enter on this public exhibition of myself, it is necessary that nothing
should bear the appearance of obscurity or concealment. I should be
continually under the eye of the reader…”

We see him struggle through several more passions toward older women (Madame Warrens and Madame Basil). It seems in both circumstances, the women return Rousseau’s affection. Although one can question Rousseau judgment and particularly that of the older women, they turn out to be still a charming in nature. I wonder why Rousseau becomes attracted to these mother figures? Is it because he never had a mother? Maybe the following idea grants one insight into Rousseau’s inability to relate to girls his own age.
Rousseau reveals he was a prodigy as a child. I personally can accept this self-proclamation.

“Why should I now disguise my thoughts? I am
persuaded I had more. In my childhood, I was not a child; I felt, I
thought as a man: as I advanced in years, I mingled with the ordinary
class; in my infancy I was distinguished from it. I shall doubtless
incur ridicule by thus modestly holding myself up for a prodigy..”

I wonder how his intelligence and overly sensitive nature handicap him from succeeding in main stream society?

I’ll stop there and let others post, I can talk all day about this

[Buh4Bee]

Here is a less juicy topic, but still just as important. Rousseau ends up as a ward of the Catholic church to be converted. He goes through the process and completes the conversion ritual. Moving through, this he practically has a religious crisis:
Though young, I was sufficiently convinced, that whatever
religion might be the true one, I was about to sell mine; and even should
I chance to chose the best, I lied to the Holy Ghost, and merited the
disdain of every good man. The more I considered, the more I despised
myself, and trembled at the fate which had led me into such a
predicament, as if my present situation had not been of my own seeking.

He also critiques the superiority of the Protestant faith when compared to Catholicism:
Protestants, in general, are better instructed in the principles of their
religion than Catholics; the reason is obvious; the doctrine of the
former requires discussion, of the latter a blind submission; the
Catholic must content himself with the decisions of others, the
Protestant must learn to decide for himself.

In general, it seems there is some prejudice against the Catholic faith on Rousseau's part.
I have theories about why he ended up in the Catholic church, but mainly I believe it is because of the weakness of his youthful character.

[acdouglas92]

Sorry to be late with this one Jersea, but just to clarify - you give the impression that he, well, gave in to the Catholic Church - but why do you think it was because of his youthful character? Are you saying that his youth made him weak?

[Buh4Bee]

Sorry to be late with this one Jersea, but just to clarify - you give the impression that he, well, gave in to the Catholic Church - but why do you think it was because of his youthful character? Are you saying that his youth made him weak?

Ah, AC you’ve got me in a tight bind here. So, I am going to tell you what I was thinking and you can correct me if you think I am wrong.

First let me say, I believe we lived in a youth obsessed culture ranging from our love of athletes to our fascination with the tabloids in the grocery store. Then on a deeper more personal level, I believe youth can be a great strength. Those, in their prime, can be more optimistic, flexible, and willing to take greater risk. I believe Rousseau has exhibited many of these characteristics, such as his willingness to leave an apprenticeship because he was abused, even though he was unwilling to return home for reasons of shame. I believe, whether Rousseau realized it or not, this action took great fortitude to rebel in such a drastic way.

More specifically now, you asked me if it was Rousseau’s youth that made him weak and as a result of this flaw, ended up in the Catholic Church. I believe that it was Rousseau’s lack of worldly experience and fear of conflict that got him into trouble. This is what I meant earlier as his youthful character. I believe Rousseau often saw the world through rosy colored glasses, and experience horrible disappoint when things turn out differently than what he expected. Despite these disappointments, we see an incredibly flexible young person, who always goes with the flow and regains a hopeful and joyous attitude towards life even after minor disappoint.

I would like to start by analyzing what I think happened to Rousseau when he had dinner with M. de Pontverre. First of all, I believe Rousseau arrived hungry. Once dinner began he found that he was repleted by the food, intellectually stimulated by the conversation, and made festive by the wine. He was in good ambiance and didn’t want to disrupt the festivities of dinner, and was unwillingly to discuss his jarring difference of religious opinions. To complicate matters further for Rousseau, I believe he has issues with conflict and tries to avoid it at all costs.

I only wished to avoid giving offence to those I was sensible
caressed me from that motive; I wished to cultivate their good opinion,
and meantime leave them the hope of success by seeming less on my guard
than I really was. My conduct in this particular resembled the coquetry
of some very honest women, who, to obtain their wishes, without
permitting or promising anything, sometimes encourage hopes they never
mean to realize.

Following this part of the narrative, Rousseau reflects on how the priest’s behavior contributes to this situation. As we have seen in the past books, Rousseau calls further the necessity of virtue in the world and how it being absent affects him:

Reason, piety, and love of order, certainly demanded that instead of
being encouraged in my folly, I should have been dissuaded from the ruin
I was courting, and sent back to my family

Rousseau points out that the priest, M. de Pontverre’s pursuit of evangelism leads him to overlook virtuous behavior and does not send the confused kid home. Rousseau claims that an adult with good sense or virtue would have encouraged him to turn around, relax, and go home. This is not what happened and as a result Rousseau was provided with food, clothing, and shelter for a while longer.

I am glad Rousseau ended up in the Catholic Church and so far I have come to like him and all his character flaws. Youth or not, Rousseau is a gentle sort of soul and the basis of his character comes from a source of good. For whatever reasons he ended up in the Church, he gained an incredible experience that most likely enriched his own personal philosophy.

[Buh4Bee]

The discussion group for Book 3 will reconvene on Wednesday the 15th of July.

Hope everyone has a nice holiday!

[Buh4Bee]

Book III. It seems Rousseau is starting to grow up, but still struggling to find his chosen path. He always seems to be pushed in the direction of seminary. I'm glad he gets thrown out. It's not the place for him. I think his attachment to Madame Warren is weird. I call him a yes-man because he keeps getting into situations in which if he protested, he could avoid them.

[acdouglas92]

Haha you liked seeing him get thrown out...wow jersea. I still have to catch up, (angry face) but in the meantime could I perhaps get a more in-depth synopsis...only to test your knowledge of Book III, of course

[Buh4Bee]

Not too much, you're making me do too much work here, but I'll bite!

So far Rousseau leaves his current place of employment and tramps about the country side with a friend. (Nice part to skim). He returns to Madame Warrens, his beloved something. He sees her as a cross between and mother and a MILF. She tries to better his future and he ends up going to seminary. Gets kicked out and learns that one of his teachers got an unwed young girl pregnant. Some other events happen, but maybe some else wants to fill in.

[Quark]

Hi, jersea. How's the conversation going? When's the next discussion scheduled for? I have things to post, but am a little unsure about how you have this set up. Do you only discuss for one day at a time?

[Buh4Bee]

Quark, Post anytime. We have made Wednesdays the time to finish a book. Posting can go on any time! Next Wed. is book 4. Took a few weeks off b/c people were away. A few responses, but it's been kind of a running monologue for me. AC's been great about asking good questions. I really like the Confessions and I'm a huge fan of Rousseau.

See you soon and please post any time.

[Quark]

Quark, Post anytime.

Good deal. I'll come up with something outrageously intelligent to say.

[Buh4Bee]

Not too intelligent, I'm brain dead these days as I just found out I'm expecting my first baby. After a long time trying and then something mysteriously happened around the last day of my school year. (I'm a teacher.) Of course I did not know for like 6 weeks after that, as I have had no symptoms except fatigue and awful crying fits (Wooo! Too much information.). I think you'll are male, but I could be wrong as I really don't know who I am talking to on the internet.

Be kind, gentle, and understanding!