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Thread: Literary Discussion of Selected Passages

  1. #16
    Registered User PoeticPassions's Avatar
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    Quite an apt interpretation and commentary, Bien. Thanks.

    Here is my small contribution to the symbols:

    THE SEA (I cann only give a few brief commentaries, so I hope others will add on)

    I see the sea as the actual environment one finds himself or herself in. The sea is the legal, social, and civil system in which we live in, and especially in which France is entagled in during the time that Hugo writes Les Miserables

    "He is in the tremendous sea. Under foot he has nothing but what flees and crumbles. The billows, torn and lashed by the wind, encompass him hideously; the tossings of the abyss bear him away; all the tongues of water dash over his head; a populace of waves spits upon him; confused openings half devour him; every time that he sinks, he catches glimpses of precipices filled with night; frightful and unknown vegetations seize him, knot about his feet, draw him to them; he is conscious that he is becoming an abyss, that he forms part of the foam; the waves toss him from one to another; he drinks in the bitterness; the cowardly ocean attacks him furiously, to drown him; the enormity plays with his agony. It seems as though all that water were hate."

    Interesting use of cowardly here... (more on that later)

    But this system is devouring the man, yet he realizes that, at the same time, he is part of it--"he is conscious that he is becoming an abyss, that he forms part of the foam."

    But he still struggles against it. The only way to change is struggle, resistance, passion. One must feel the grip of it to fight against it.

    "He witnesses, amid his death-pangs, the immense madness of the sea. He is tortured by this madness; he hears noises strange to man, which seem to come from beyond the limits of the earth, and from one knows not what frightful region beyond."

    Perhaps the madness is the inhuamnity in it all. The injustices, the lack of compassion. There is no mercy to the sea. There can be peace or there can be chaos.

    The sea is the "misere"... the Les Miserables. One plunges into it. Does one come out of it stronger, better? Or does one come out weaker, broken? or does one not come out at all?

    "He feels himself buried in those two infinities, the ocean and the sky, at one and the same time: the one is a tomb; the other is a shroud."

    Which will prevail?
    "All gods are homemade, and it is we who pull their strings, and so, give them the power to pull ours." -Aldous Huxley

    "Sooner murder an infant in its cradle than nurse unacted desires." -William Blake

  2. #17
    Registered User PoeticPassions's Avatar
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    there is much more to be said about the sea, I hope someone else picks this up. Today I am quite exhausted and cannot really formulate my thoughts well, plus am constrained on time.
    "All gods are homemade, and it is we who pull their strings, and so, give them the power to pull ours." -Aldous Huxley

    "Sooner murder an infant in its cradle than nurse unacted desires." -William Blake

  3. #18
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
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    Until I have more time to respond...
    Excellent comments...PP you really followed through with the next item very well...
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

  4. #19
    YMCA Fanatic jakobmuller's Avatar
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    Definitely great responses

    It was great enough reading all this the first time, but all of the new viewpoints and interpretations make it all the more interesting and thought-provoking.

  5. #20
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
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    I will try to add another section tomorrow...
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

  6. #21
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
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    Okay...so the Hurricane has impeded my ability to reach tomorrow...

    It is now tomorrow...

    I am going to make some brief comments about what I think that the different symbols mean. I wanted to get a little more in depth, but I have too many distractions. I've had at least four since I started this paragraph.

    The hurricane being a larger entity represents the social disorders and obstacles on a larger scale. I don't think that the systems (whatever the system of the certain society is) are the focus of this symbol, but the negative effects of the system. There are many systems that are good effective systems. I can say that there are good qualities in most every system, but the corruption of mankind perverts the effectiveness of every system. Greed, corruption, and the selfish desires of those who gain power...these are not the hurricane, but merely the front that brings the hurricane into fruition.

    The winds are a representation of...for example: the neglected individual's needs, the disappearance of compassion in bureaucracy, etc... These things are that which keep us from success. The wind in our faces taking our breaths.

    The vegetation is many little obstacles that impede us from doing the little everyday tasks. Any little vine or branch, the little leaves, as they are connected together begin to make the restrains that keep us down. As Valjean entered a little town, his fatigue and hunger were the things that he needed to vanquish. But the fear and prejudice in each person's heart were the vegetation. These were the things that tangled the man's legs that kept him from swimming. He had money...they had food...it was for sale...but it was not for sale to Valjean, due to the vines of fear.

    Do you blame each individual? Is it the system's fault? It is not to place blame, but to realize that the vegetation is there.
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

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