Ending of 1984

[Equality72521]

haha, Atheist. You took the words right out of my mouth.

[Lily Adams]

They helped him see the reason for living in the system!

[BuggritHall]

My take on the ending to 1984 is a bit different to what most seem to believe. Personally I don't think that Winston meets his end with a bullet to the brain but rather Orwell seems to be saying that upon the moment when Winston is totally changed into a party member he is now as good as dead.

Also think about the many contradictions of Ingsoc. What biggest contradiction, and indeed best show of holding complete power over an individual, than to dangle the carrot of being executed for Thoughtcrime while all the time intending that the victim will live out the rest of their natural span completely in the image of a perfect Party member?

[The Atheist]

My take on the ending to 1984 is a bit different to what most seem to believe. Personally I don't think that Winston meets his end with a bullet to the brain but rather Orwell seems to be saying that upon the moment when Winston is totally changed into a party member he is now as good as dead.

I'd actually say that's how the majority see it.

Also think about the many contradictions of Ingsoc. What biggest contradiction, and indeed best show of holding complete power over an individual, than to dangle the carrot of being executed for Thoughtcrime while all the time intending that the victim will live out the rest of their natural span completely in the image of a perfect Party member?

It's all about purity - no trace of unorthodoxy can be left. You have to think like O'Brien to see it.

[imthefoolonthehill]

To answer the original question. perhaps it was stolckholm's syndrom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Or just plain old fashion brainwashing. (although many believe that this concept is unscientific)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

My personal opinion is simply that he broke. He chose the easy path, to love big brother. Everyone and everything breaks under enough pressure.

[The Atheist]

To answer the original question. perhaps it was stolckholm's syndrom.

My personal opinion is simply that he broke. He chose the easy path, to love big brother. Everyone and everything breaks under enough pressure.

I think the whole point was that nobody will ever replicate what Winston went through, so an analysis of what it actually was is impossible. Anyway, the end result is what matters, but I can't see Winston being said to have made any choices in it.

[Gladys]

I think the whole point was that nobody will ever replicate what Winston went through, so an analysis of what it actually was is impossible.

I presume that 1984 applies to more than just socialist/communist states. Orwell implies that unbridled power in the hands of a few, whether democratic or communist, may harness modern technology to perpetuate its own power at the expense of all else. And that individuals will have very limited capacity to resist the state in the near future.

These totalitarian states will demand and obtain an unquestioning patriotism, unquestioning compliance.

Is there more?

[The Atheist]

I presume that 1984 applies to more than just socialist/communist states. Orwell implies that unbridled power in the hands of a few, whether democratic or communist, may harness modern technology to perpetuate its own power at the expense of all else. And that individuals will have very limited capacity to resist the state in the near future.

These totalitarian states will demand and obtain an unquestioning patriotism, unquestioning compliance.

Is there more?

No, I'd say you have it spot on.

You can break it down to Lord Acton:

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely

[aspirer]

I think winston was taught/he learnt to love by being aware of his hate for bb. Initially I thought winston was right in wanting to overthrow bb, but then I realised winston was actually wrong in his attitude. By becoming aware of his reactions to bb in this unconventional manner, he learnt to be in the optimal way. It is futile and unproductive to hate, and sets the wrong example. Love is the ultimate way.

[The Atheist]

I think winston was taught/he learnt to love by being aware of his hate for bb.

No. His mind was destroyed and replaced by what the Party wanted it to be. There was no choice, and the love is a perversion of what we know that emotion as.

[aspirer]

No. His mind was destroyed and replaced by what the Party wanted it to be. There was no choice, and the love is a perversion of what we know that emotion as.

correct - his mind was destroyed. He was without mind. He stopped hating (a part of his mind). Premise here is the absence of mind is love. Winston underwent accelerated learning, whereas people in society dont get the near instant feedback he got after a thought, and so people continue ignoring habits of thought. Winston got questioned, and so attention and awareness was paid to his thinking.. that resulted in it being replaced with a superior mode of being - love. Just like if you pay attention to any task you do, you'll do it better.
The party wanted it to be love which may be the message Orwell is delivering to the reader for how he realises the ultimate way to be is to any situation

[The Atheist]

correct - his mind was destroyed. He was without mind. He stopped hating (a part of his mind). Premise here is the absence of mind is love.

That would be one of the strangest premises I've seen.

Winston underwent accelerated learning, whereas people in society dont get the near instant feedback he got after a thought, and so people continue ignoring habits of thought. Winston got questioned, and so attention and awareness was paid to his thinking.. that resulted in it being replaced with a superior mode of being - love.

No, I really think you have it completely wrong. The love that Winston displays towards BB is as false as a $3 bill. It has been implanted by the Party [O'Brien] and it is a perversion of love at the very best.

Love requires free will, which Winston no longer has.

Just like if you pay attention to any task you do, you'll do it better.
The party wanted it to be love which may be the message Orwell is delivering to the reader for how he realises the ultimate way to be is to any situation

No, the message Orwell is delivering is that totalitarianism done right will include complete mind control and that the rulers will be able to subjugate even the most basic human emotions into whatever they choose.

[billl]

aspirer, you have to realize that it would no longer be winston, once that sort of "learning" occurs. what is happening to winston is de-humanizing. he is not being encouraged to look at the world in a new and healthy way. the absence of mind might be said to be love by some gurus, but that is really just (relatively benign) brainwashing--and a very marketable premise for a book in this high-speed, high-stress modern world!

winston is being taught that his thoughts and feelings are the property of the party. he is to become a "piece" of a whole. he will be disempowered, and the whole will get a little bit more empowered. at the very least, its methods won't be invalidated by his "individual" existence.

it is, of course, good to reappraise things from time to time, and to be as alert as possible to different perspectives. that can help us change, when we need to change. but this argument is a sort of "fig-leaf of virtue." such a truth is no excuse to re-program a person against their will. if the motives were good, there would surely be some way to carry out the "re-education" without resorting to torture. really, they should be able to verbally convince people of it's necessity and/or usefulness. if it's a good idea, then it would be able to survive in a rational debate. but the strong-armed, dehumanizing methods of the party invalidate the project that you are suggesting.

i believe the most advanced forms of love are enhanced by the individuality of those who feel it. big brother reduces individuality, and seeks a conforming, pliable populace. an automatic instinct to feel love, for anyone and everyone, is a wonderful ideal. but to accomplish such a thing via torture and mind-control betrays an underlying culture that knows nothing of love or respect of the individual. anyhow, such a complete surrender to no-mind is already accomplished to vary degrees by cockroaches, amoebas, and dogs. people are different, and things aren't so simple.

winston did not get a superior mode of being. like theAtheist said, he became conditioned to confuse his old notion of "love" with subservience to the pressures in his environment. as an individual, he died. he has been reduced to being another component in a machine that demands subservience.

[Gladys]

Love perhaps, but in an empty shell.

Things will happen to you from which you could not recover, if you lived a thousand years. Never again will you be capable of ordinary human feeling. Everything will be dead inside you. Never again will you be capable of love, or friendship, or joy of living, or laughter, or curiosity, or courage, or integrity. You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves.

By the time we had finished with them they were only the shells of men. There was nothing left in them except sorrow for what they had done, and love of Big Brother.

[bazarov]

Bill, great comment.