A Study or Origins

[librarius_qui]

The Byzantine empire is technically the continuation of the Roman empire. The reason for the distiction I believe is that the official language of the Byzantines changed from Latin to Greek around the sixth century. Even after the fall of the western half of the empire in 476, the Eastern half spent a century and more trying to get it back. The great emperoro Justinian almost recaptured the western half in the sixth century. But even to the fall of the Byzantine empire in 1453, (1) they still considered themselves roman, and used the term Romanoi to refer to themselves. I'm not sure they ever used (2) the term Byzantine. That may have been a later term after their fall. If you haven't noticed, I'm a roman history buff.

Oh I should mention the conquorer of Constantinople, a fine leader and general of the Turkish people, the Sultan Mehmed II. I couldn't remember his name earlier and had to go refresh my memory.

Oh technically (3) Turkey is in Asia I believe, but it straddles both.

1. There is, still, Romania (somewhat north). Who still speak a variation of modern Latin.

2. The Greek name of the town was Byzantion, from the days of the Greeks (bC). So, there is a Byzantine identity before the Roman empire reaches Byzantion. And the name of the town was changed around the days of the fall of the Western half of the empire, so ... it's very Byzantine, all right. And it's normal that they call themselves Romanoi. It was good for the towns to be considered coloniae, prouinciae ...

3. Byzantion/Constantinopolis-Constantinople/Istanbul was a town either in Europe and in Asia, always were. The name of the Roman province that now is the country called Turkey was Asia (Asia, Asiae). By Roman days, by the way, only what we now call Turkey was Asia prouincia. Beyond Asia, there was Mesopotamia. Beyond Mesopotamia ... it was very distant a place!

[BienvenuJDC]

This is the best I have ever seen people contribute to a discussion...

I've enjoyed everyone input.

[kasie]

In fairness to the Travel Insurance Agent, I'm sure she really knew Egypt is in Africa - she did say 'As far as we are concerned...' by which I think she meant that as far as insurable risks are concerned, the risks for a trip to Egypt are regarded as the same as for a trip to a European country, short-haul flight, etc. As long as the Travel Company knows where Egypt is, I think I shall be ok.....I think.....I'll let you know next February.

[lupe]

One more funny detail about the name of the city: Many Turks insist on "Istanbul" rather that the greek name "Constantinople", without knowing that "Istanbul" is also a greek word, actually three words: "Is Tin Poli", meaning "in the Town". Greeks have always refer to Istanbul as "Poli", an abbreviation of "Costantinoupoli" and a reflection of the importance of the only real "City". !!

[BienvenuJDC]

One more funny detail about the name of the city: Many Turks insist on "Istanbul" rather that the greek name "Constantinople", without knowing that "Istanbul" is also a greek word, actually three words: "Is Tin Poli", meaning "in the Town". Greeks have always refer to Istanbul as "Poli", an abbreviation of "Costantinoupoli" and a reflection of the importance of the only real "City". !!

Thank you...I was going to ask what the meaning and origin of the name Istanbul was...my next question for you, lupe, now is:

How are you able to read my mind? And what else have you read while in there?




Next area for discussion: How does Egypt differ from the rest of Africa? And why does those differences exist?

[Niamh]

The land mass that Turkey is a part of is classed as Aisa Minor. (I think) It is also in a separate techtonic plate.

[prendrelemick]

I would consider it the same as I would Russia. Back before the fall of the Romanov dynasty, the Czar line was related to the European royal families. Since inbreeding was a problem among the royal families (marrying common people was socially unacceptable), the royal families would cross national lines. While the majority of Russia was obviously in Asia, the heart of the leadership was tied to Europe. The architecture is very much linked to the other Asian styles. Where did the Russian people come from...and what similarities do Constantinople and Moscow have? Both seem to be bridges of the Eurasian gap.

Sorry to go so far back into the thread, but I,ve only just read it.

There is a very strong link between Moscow and Constantinople, forged when the Russians chose the Byzantine version of Christianity over the Roman one.
The Russian Church probably had more power and influence over Russians than the Tsar, and it looked to Constantinople for its lead.

[lupe]

Thank you...I was going to ask what the meaning and origin of the name Istanbul was...my next question for you, lupe, now is:

How are you able to read my mind? And what else have you read while in there?




Next area for discussion: How does Egypt differ from the rest of Africa? And why does those differences exist?

I hope you'd be satisfy to regard this as a pure coincidence...

As of Egypt: This country, as well as Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco are geographically in Africa, but have long been culturally, ethnically and politically separated from the other African countries. Sahara desert has constituted a barrier for many centuries, thus creating a clear distinction between the people living on either sides of it. This being said, there are African governmental organisations to which all the above countries are members.

[Boris239]

Sorry to go so far back into the thread, but I,ve only just read it.

There is a very strong link between Moscow and Constantinople, forged when the Russians chose the Byzantine version of Christianity over the Roman one.
The Russian Church probably had more power and influence over Russians than the Tsar, and it looked to Constantinople for its lead.

At the time when the Russians converted to christianity (988 AD), the Byzantine Empire was probably the most powerful state around (I am talking about Christian states, so we won't talk about Cordoban khalifat), so it's logical that prince Vladimir decided to take the religion from them. By the legend, he actually took couple of Greek cities and then when the Emperor wanted to negotiate peace, he asked for his sister's hand. Obviously, the princess couldn't marry a pagan, so vladimir happily converted to orthodoxy.

Russian Patriarch only became officially independent after the siege of Constantinople. He was pretty influential during the Tartato-Mongol times, but you are mistaken to say that he had more influence than the modren tsars. Peter the Great created Sinod which is an organization in control of church, and since then the Russian church became much less influential.

Traditionally, Ural mountains are considered to be the border between Europe and Asia, so Russia is half and half. If we look historically, before the Tataro-Mongols, Russia was very much part of the european history. Let's say Anna, daughter of Jaroslav the Wise, married the French King and actually ruled France as a regent for couple of years. After Russia was invaded, there was a period when the links with Europe, were virtually lost. Then, since Peter the Great and until the revolution, Russia again became part of Europe. Obviously there was a lot of antagonism during Soviet times, so it's kind of a sinusoid function

And whoever was talking about Russian architecture being close to asian... I'd love them to point out one non European building in Saint Petersburg

[librarius_qui]

I hope you'd be satisfy to regard this as a pure coincidence...

As of Egypt: This country, as well as Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco are geographically in Africa, but have long been culturally, ethnically and politically separated from the other African countries. Sahara desert has constituted a barrier for many centuries, thus creating a clear distinction between the people living on either sides of it. This being said, there are African governmental organisations to which all the above countries are members.

Not to say that, since the Roman empire, there's a tendency to make a Mediterranean culture (Mare nostrum ...).

[BienvenuJDC]

New Question:
I assume that Mare (like the Spanish Mar) means sea...What does nostrum mean?

What does Mediterranean mean...(middle of the land, maybe?)???

[a_little_wisp]

I'd like to start this thread discussing the origins of the Turks and/or the establishment of Constantinople.

*Clears throat.*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv-KcF3Rkv8

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way!

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul (Istanbul)
Istanbul (Istanbul)

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul ....!!!!

[kilted exile]

wondered how long it'd take for that song to get posted

[librarius_qui]

New Question:
I assume that Mare (like the Spanish Mar) means sea...What does nostrum mean?

What does Mediterranean mean...(middle of the land, maybe?)???

Oh,.. sorry

Mare nostrum is "Our sea", as Romans called it, after they conquered all the lands around the Mediterranean.

And yes: (mare) medi-terraneum is indeed, a sea in the middle of the lands.

[BienvenuJDC]

And whoever was talking about Russian architecture being close to asian... I'd love them to point out one non European building in Saint Petersburg

I guess I was just referring to the similarity between these building...maybe they are the exception and not the rule... Any input on this subject would be appreciated...