Page 192 of 217 FirstFirst ... 92142182187188189190191192193194195196197202 ... LastLast
Results 2,866 to 2,880 of 3249

Thread: D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

  1. #2866
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia
    Posts
    9,300
    Blog Entries
    3
    Virgil, I am posting this part of the post but hope you note my previous post which answers/comments on yours.

    NEXT PART OF THE TEXT:

    In the faint glow of the half-clear light that came about four o'clock in the afternoon, I was roused to see a motion in the snow away below, near where the thorn trees stood very black and dwarfed, like a little savage group, in the dismal white. I watched closely. Yes, there was a flapping and a struggle--a big bird, it must be, labouring in the snow. I wondered. Our biggest birds, in the valley, were the large hawks that often hung flickering opposite my windows, level with me, but high above some prey on the steep valleyside. This was much too big for a hawk--too big for any known bird. I searched in my mind for the largest English wild birds, geese, buzzards.

    Still it laboured and strove, then was still, a dark spot, then struggled again. I went out of the house and down the steep slope, at risk of breaking my leg between the rocks. I knew the ground so well--and yet I got well shaken before I drew near the thorn-trees.

    Yes, it was a bird. It was Joey. It was the grey-brown peacock with a blue neck. He was snow-wet and spent. 'Joey--Joey, de-urr!' I said, staggering unevenly towards him. He looked so pathetic, rowing and struggling in the snow, too spent to rise, his blue neck stretching out and lying sometimes on the snow, his eye closing and opening quickly, his crest all battered.

    'Joey dee-uur! Dee-urr!' I said caressingly to him. And at last he lay still, blinking, in the surged and furrowed snow, whilst I came near and touched him, stroked him, gathered him under my arm. He stretched his long, wetted neck away from me as I held him, none the less he was quiet in my arm, too tired, perhaps, to struggle. Still he held his poor, crested head away from me, and seemed sometimes to droop, to wilt, as if he might suddenly die.

    He was not so heavy as I expected, yet it was a struggle to get up to the house with him again. We set him down, not too near the fire, and gently wiped him with cloths. He submitted, only now and then stretched his soft neck away from us, avoiding us helplessly. Then we set warm food by him. I put it to his beak, tried to make him eat. But he ignored it. He seemed to be ignorant of what we were doing, recoiled inside himself inexplicably. So we put him in a basket with cloths, and left him crouching oblivious. His food we put near him. The blinds were drawn, the house was warm, it was night. Sometimes he stirred, but mostly he huddled still, leaning his queer crested head on one side. He touched no food, and took no heed of sounds or movements. We talked of brandy or stimulants. But I realized we had best leave him alone.

    In the night, however, we heard him thumping about. I got up anxiously with a candle. He had eaten some food, and scattered more, making a mess. And he was perched on the back of a heavy arm-chair. So I concluded he was recovered, or recovering.
    Now the text with my highlighting:
    In the faint glow of the half-clear light that came about four o'clock in the afternoon, I was roused to see a motion in the snow away below, near where the thorn trees stood very black and dwarfed, like a little savage group, in the dismal white. I watched closely. Yes, there was a flapping and a struggle--a big bird, it must be, labouring in the snow. I wondered. Our biggest birds, in the valley, were the large hawks that often hung flickering opposite my windows, level with me, but high above some prey on the steep valleyside. This was much too big for a hawk--too big for any known bird. I searched in my mind for the largest English wild birds, geese, buzzards.

    Still it laboured and strove, then was still, a dark spot, then struggled again. I went out of the house and down the steep slope, at risk of breaking my leg between the rocks. I knew the ground so well--and yet I got well shaken before I drew near the thorn-trees.

    Yes, it was a bird. It was Joey. It was the grey-brown peacock with a blue neck. He was snow-wet and spent.

    'Joey--Joey, de-urr!' I said, staggering unevenly towards him. He looked so pathetic, rowing and struggling in the snow, too spent to rise, his blue neck stretching out and lying sometimes on the snow, his eye closing and opening quickly, his crest all battered.

    'Joey dee-uur! Dee-urr!' I said caressingly to him. And at last he lay still, blinking, in the surged and furrowed snow, whilst I came near and touched him, stroked him, gathered him under my arm. He stretched his long, wetted neck away from me as I held him, none the less he was quiet in my arm, too tired, perhaps, to struggle. Still he held his poor, crested head away from me, and seemed sometimes to droop, to wilt, as if he might suddenly die.

    He was not so heavy as I expected, yet it was [b]a struggle[b] to get up to the house with him again. We set him down, not too near the fire, and gently wiped him with cloths. He submitted, only now and then stretched his soft neck away from us, avoiding us helplessly. Then we set warm food by him. I put it to his beak, tried to make him eat. But he ignored it. He seemed to be ignorant of what we were doing, recoiled inside himself inexplicably. So we put him in a basket with cloths, and left him crouching oblivious. His food we put near him. The blinds were drawn, the house was warm, it was night. Sometimes he stirred, but mostly he huddled still, leaning his queer crested head on one side. He touched no food, and took no heed of sounds or movements. We talked of brandy or stimulants. But I realized we had best leave him alone.

    In the night, however, we heard him thumping about. I got up anxiously with a candle. He had eaten some food, and scattered more, making a mess. And he was perched on the back of a heavy arm-chair. So I concluded he was recovered, or recovering.
    One thing, I noticed right away in this section is the repetition of the word 'struggle' or 'struggling' and other words similar in meaning, which are sprinkled throughout this bit of text emphasising the state the bird is going through in order to live. It perhaps also mimics the struggle of the husband and wife to preserve their fragile marriage. I think asside from this, it suggests on a larger scope, the struggle of war. As the narrator, recues this dark form, first unknown to him, in the snow, this scene might be reminescent of rescuing a fellow soldier on a battlefield. I noticed that the narrator puts himself into some serious peril to rescue the poor dying bird. I think, knowing also, how Lawrence, himself, had just narrowly escaped death and the eternal darkness is significant; this rescue of the bird is majorly symbolic in many ways. He longs to now rescue poor Joey; Joey takes on almost human characteristic of a dying or near dying man and I think this significance. The words I bolded up are only some of the words/phrases in this passage that suggest much more to me than just merely saving a peacock from his imminent death in the frozen snowfield.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  2. #2867
    Registered User jinjang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Out for a while
    Posts
    216
    Blog Entries
    3
    I have piles of work to do, but let me postpone it a little while.

    where the thorn trees stood very black and dwarfed, like a little savage group, in the dismal white.
    What kind of tree is the thorn tree? Acacia on a rocky hill does not fit somehow so it must be a different kind of thorn tree. I liked the term savage applied to a thorn tree. I feel savage at the moment.

    Still it laboured and strove, then was still, a dark spot, then struggled again. I went out of the house and down the steep slope, at risk of breaking my leg between the rocks. I knew the ground so well--and yet I got well shaken before I drew near the thorn-trees.
    I just checked the landscape of Mountain Cottage, Middleton-by-Wirksworth, Derbyshire, where he wrote the story. I remember the big boulder where Elizabeth Bennett stood on, touring Derbyshire in a BBC adoption of Pride and Prejudice. It was a breathtaking place with grand sceneries.

    'Joey--Joey, de-urr!'
    The narrator called Joey in the same way as Maggie. He did sympathize with Maggie and felt sorry for her struggle to overcome her emotion. Wintry peacock is still a proud male ego? We should revisit the meaning of Wintry Peacock.

    Still he held his poor, crested head away from me, and seemed sometimes to droop, to wilt, as if he might suddenly die.
    Maggie, though laughing, went through despair and immersed in her distress. Anybody’s emotional stress can magnify itself in the person and cannot be lightly treated. There were many signs of her face in the beginning of the story: grimace, brood, sallow, red nose, misfit-laughing, etc. I can imagine Maggie “droop, wilt as if she might suddenly die.” Who wouldn’t feel sympathy?

    Janine chose the good phrases: “avoiding us helplessly, recoiled inside himself inexplicably, crouching oblivious.” I am not sure what it signifies. A suffering person seeks denial and solitude, sometimes, induced by his or her pride.

    Do people likely seek solitude or human contacts in emotional termoil? I seek solitude.
    Last edited by jinjang; 05-07-2009 at 03:34 PM.
    Walk, meditate, forget - Victor Hugo
    Life is bigger than literature - Michael Cunningham

  3. #2868
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Within the winds
    Posts
    8,905
    Blog Entries
    964
    Quote Originally Posted by jinjang View Post
    What kind of tree is the thorn tree? Acacia on a rocky hill does not fit somehow so it must be a different kind of thorn tree. I liked the term savage applied to a thorn tree. I feel savage at the moment.
    It could be a Hawthorn Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by jinjang View Post
    IThe narrator called Joey in the same way as Maggie. He did sympathize with Maggie and felt sorry for her struggle to overcome her emotion. Wintry peacock is still a proud male ego? We should revisit the meaning of Wintry Peacock.
    I do not think his mimicking her speech is proof enough that he is being sympathetic to her. It could instead be done as a form of mockery. Or perhaps simply because seeing the bird made him think of the way she spoke, but it really does not suggest any particular emotion on his behalf toward Maggie and her situation.

    He looked so pathetic, rowing and struggling in the snow, too spent to rise, his blue neck stretching out and lying sometimes on the snow, his eye closing and opening quickly, his crest all battered.
    In view of looking at the story as having a connection to the war, and the hardships and struggles which war cased, this depiction of Joey fallen and pathetic in the snow with his batter crest, and his eyes starting to close could reflect the image of a wounded solider.

    But the mention of the bright color of his blue next, and the battered crest (a symbol of the birds maleness, as well in addition to its colors the crest is also a device used to attract females) could suggest faltering state of the male ego, and going back to the discussing of Lawrence's stance on male vs female, and his view of the proper roles for men and women, and the dangers of female power, it could reflect the state of men when women have taken on a dominant role. While there is debate about what Maggie is really feeling in the revelation of Alfred's affair, and if she is properly anger, or does not display anger, or has repressed anger, she does not at any rate appear to be a weak woman, she does come off as rather forward and strong-willed.
    Last edited by Dark Muse; 05-07-2009 at 08:22 PM.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  4. #2869
    Registered User jinjang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Out for a while
    Posts
    216
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse
    But the mention of the bright color of his blue next, and the battered crest (a symbol of the birds maleness, as well in addition to its colors the crest is also a device used to attract females) could suggest faltering state of the male ego, and going back to the discussing of Lawrence's stance on male vs female, and his view of the proper roles for men and women, and the dangers of female power, it could reflect the state of men when women have taken on a dominant role. While there is debate about what Maggie is really feeling in the revelation of Alfred's affair, and if she is properly anger, or does not display anger, or has repressed anger, she does not at any rate appear to be a weak woman, she does come off as rather forward and strong-willed.
    A very good point! But, you will not make me dislike the narrator. Alfred? I have to see how he looks in real. The narrator describes him as handsome, but he is a man. What does he know what attracts a woman? I know it is irrelevant to the story. If men are vain in women's look, why not we women?

    It is late at night and I am quite spent this evening...I am going to bed...
    Walk, meditate, forget - Victor Hugo
    Life is bigger than literature - Michael Cunningham

  5. #2870
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Mid-Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    13,843
    Blog Entries
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by jinjang View Post
    A very good point! But, you will not make me dislike the narrator. Alfred? I have to see how he looks in real. The narrator describes him as handsome, but he is a man. What does he know what attracts a woman? I know it is irrelevant to the story. If men are vain in women's look, why not we women?

    It is late at night and I am quite spent this evening...I am going to bed...
    Alfred is slightly better looking than myself...but that really is not much of a compliment.
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

  6. #2871
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Within the winds
    Posts
    8,905
    Blog Entries
    964
    My point was not about Alfred's physical apperance, but just pointing out how the crest of the bird is mentioned in this story and how the crest directly indicates "maleness" and the "male pride" and this Joey in this scene reflects ideas of maleness somewhat relating to Virgil's ideas reguarding immpotence.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  7. #2872
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia
    Posts
    9,300
    Blog Entries
    3
    Going out this afternoon and won't be back until after dinner, early evening; can't be helped. Glad to see everyone posting again. When I get back tonight, I will answer all the posts, if possible. I can't think now under pressure; must get ready to go out, besides I will be late if I do hang around here.

    One think I will mention to Dark Muse, it that I pointed out in my prior post the idea of the bird relating to a fallen soldier, wounded. The rescue of possible peril to the wellbeing of the narrator also could be as one soldier risks his life to rescue another from a ominous battlefield.

    Other than that, you all had me laughing trying to determine what Alfred looked like physically. I think Alfred might look like Virgil only instead of hugging his dog, substitude the dog for a peacock. (I hope he reads this...he will laugh).

    See you all later!
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  8. #2873
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Mid-Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    13,843
    Blog Entries
    10
    Hmmm....I bet there are bigger themes to this short story that have nothing to do with with either the narrator, Maggie, or Alfred. I wonder what they are?
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

  9. #2874
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia
    Posts
    9,300
    Blog Entries
    3
    Hmmm....I bet there are bigger themes to this short story that have nothing to do with with either the narrator, Maggie, or Alfred. I wonder what they are?
    how bout sex and WAR especially!
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  10. #2875
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    20,354
    Blog Entries
    248
    Notice the description of the bird:

    Yes, it was a bird. It was Joey. It was the grey-brown peacock with a blue neck. He was snow-wet and spent. 'Joey--Joey, de-urr!' I said, staggering unevenly towards him. He looked so pathetic, rowing and struggling in the snow, too spent to rise, his blue neck stretching out and lying sometimes on the snow, his eye closing and opening quickly, his crest all battered.

    'Joey dee-uur! Dee-urr!' I said caressingly to him. And at last he lay still, blinking, in the surged and furrowed snow, whilst I came near and touched him, stroked him, gathered him under my arm. He stretched his long, wetted neck away from me as I held him, none the less he was quiet in my arm, too tired, perhaps, to struggle. Still he held his poor, crested head away from me, and seemed sometimes to droop, to wilt, as if he might suddenly die.
    "snow-wet," "spent," "too spent to rise," "his eye closing and opening," "crested head," "droop," "wilt," "as if he might suddenly die."

    Here is where Lawrence really makes the association of the bird with a phallus. I know, Janine, I always have this on my mind. But Lawrence is always talking about this. The phallus was the central connection to blood consciousness.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  11. #2876
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia
    Posts
    9,300
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    Notice the description of the bird:


    "snow-wet," "spent," "too spent to rise," "his eye closing and opening," "crested head," "droop," "wilt," "as if he might suddenly die."

    Here is where Lawrence really makes the association of the bird with a phallus. I know, Janine, I always have this on my mind. But Lawrence is always talking about this. The phallus was the central connection to blood consciousness.
    hahaha.....as I said....sex and war!

    Hey, everyone, afraid I can't comment tonight. I came home a little while ago and I am exhausted. I don't think I can think straight to make any sense tonight. Will have to wait till tomorrow. In the meantime enjoy reading Virgil' phallic ravings.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  12. #2877
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Mid-Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    13,843
    Blog Entries
    10
    I think that making this 'phallic' is going too far. I would compare this to the shape of the war torn Europe. Alfred without doubt would NOT be in this shape...otherwise, there would be no baby...no letter...no story. Impotence was NOT the issue with the childless marriage. Maybe you should look for something OTHER than sex. Sex is a minor undertone....I believe that the social, political, and economic impotence are the real undertones...caused by the WAR!
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

  13. #2878
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia
    Posts
    9,300
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC View Post
    I think that making this 'phallic' is going too far. I would compare this to the shape of the war torn Europe. Alfred without doubt would NOT be in this shape...otherwise, there would be no baby...no letter...no story. Impotence was NOT the issue with the childless marriage. Maybe you should look for something OTHER than sex. Sex is a minor undertone....I believe that the social, political, and economic impotence are the real undertones...caused by the WAR!
    I have to agree with you. I guess we got carried away kidding around; Virgil tends to like that to use the 'p' word a lot when it comes to discussing Lawrence. If you read my former posts, I thought that whole winter scene very reminescent of the war and even the landscape of the war, such as the trenches and the barbed wire, etc; also the fallen soldier which I felt was the image of the bird struggling in the snow; it's also a analogy of survival of the fittest. The black and white references are significant in that they show the contrast between survival and death. I think if we were to say that Alfred is impotent, it's merely his leg that is lame. That does not prevent a man from fathering a child. I actually know of a case where a young man was layed up with a broken leg, full cast and it did not stop him! Hard to keep a good man down. Hope you all took that the right way. I did mean it literally.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  14. #2879
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    20,354
    Blog Entries
    248
    As you wish. You are all entitled to your oopinion and reading. I leave you with this:
    English novelist, story writer, critic, poet and painter, one of the greatest figures in 20th-century English literature. Lawrence saw sex and intuition as ways to undistorted perception of reality and means to respond to the inhumanity of the industrial culture. From Lawrence's doctrines of sexual freedom arose obscenity trials, which had a deep effect on the relationship between literature and society. In 1912 he wrote: "What the blood feels, and believes, and says, is always true." Lawrence's life after World War I was marked with continuous and restless wandering.
    http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/dhlawren.htm
    I've add the bold for emphasis. I do not think there is much in Lawrence's works that does not refer to sex in some way.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  15. #2880
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Mid-Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    13,843
    Blog Entries
    10
    Even though this may be true of Lawrence, it just doesn't fit in this story. To try to apply it forces it and makes it unrealistic. I won't say that you're wrong. I can see the symbolism in the wording, but it does not fit with the story overall. What men are mentioned in the story: the narrator, Alfred, and Alfred's father. Help me to see it by answering these questions:

    How does the impotence theme fit as being applied to the narrator?
    How does the impotence theme fit as being applied to Alfred?
    How does the impotence theme fit as being applied to Alfred's father?
    What other men might I have missed that this could apply to?

    On the other hand, we could very well apply this to OTHER aspects of Alfred's manhood. I don't see Alfred as being one to be able to manage the family farm. Not only is he lame, but he doesn't show the attributes of responsibility. But if we are talking about Alfred's deficiency in these areas, then it would not really be accurate describing this as a phallic symbol...(or anti-phallic as it may be).
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

Similar Threads

  1. Something that bugs me about short stories
    By book_jones in forum General Literature
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-12-2008, 04:28 AM
  2. Something Short and Sweet
    By applepie in forum General Literature
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-30-2008, 07:32 PM
  3. Who can help me find English short stories?
    By JohnHe21 in forum General Literature
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-14-2007, 10:42 AM
  4. Who writes the best short stories?
    By Nemerov in forum General Literature
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 09-06-2004, 04:08 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •