Help for interpretation is needed

[blacklilac]

Hi, everybody!!

I am new here, and I'd like to ask You to help me to interpret a certain passage from James Joyce's "Finnegan Wake." I am a student of literature and currently working over a project on Terence McKenna's literary heritage.
In his books McKenna is constantly alluding to James Joyce's works, and some of his quotations are literally incomprehensible for a foreigner such as I am. My mother' tongue is Russian. Besides, "Finnegan Wake" hasn't yet been translated into Russian. For all I know, the last attempt to translate some forty pages of that book took around five years or so. Alas, James Joyce isn't easy reading for retardant students.

So, closer to the point. The passage in question at the time being is:

"Here in Moicane we flop on the seamy side, but up n'ent, prospector, you sprout all your worth and you woof your wings, so if you want to be Phoenixed, come and be parked."

It is that simple, but I can only guess what it means. So, if somebody could go to the trouble to transliterate it into a bit easier understandable English, I would be deeply touched.

Besides, can anybody help me with pronunciation of the name Moicane, because I know that Gaelic names sound quite differently from what they look.

Thanking You in anticipation.
With the best regards. blacklilac

[PeterL]

Finnegans Wake has never been translated into English either. The name Moicane probably would be pronounced "moy, cane", but the pronunciation of the "a" would be variable. I can also guess a meaning for that passage, but I have no great confidence iin that.

[kelby_lake]

I don't think anyone understands Joyce.

[mayneverhave]

Finnegans Wake has never been translated into English either.

Brilliant.

[mono]

Rest assured, blacklilac (and welcome to the forum), I do not think I have encountered a native English speaker who has fully understood Finnegans Wake, including myself, who read this years ago. A reader can call the "novel" one of two things - a genius piece of literature or the greatest literary joke ever played. Many scholars have their own theories. Joyce, all his modesty set aside, felt convinced of his own intelligence, and that many of his Irish folk doubted him, this ended up as one reason why he eventually left his home in Ireland.
Firstly, Finnegans Wake contains many, many languages, Gaelic included; Joyce himself spoke many languages, but incorporated even more in this book, which took some 17 years for him to write. I feel quite sure that it takes about 17, if not more, years to understand, as well.
Secondly, setting all the varieties of languages aside, he intended readers to pronounce many passages aloud, and, with this, one would understand those passages, because, for example, two words would equal one, when cutting out frequently silent letters in English, it would sound like a word, rather than gibberish, and, in many of his other books, he would use onomatopoeia; for example, some may recall the first sentence of A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man:

Once upon a time and a very good time it was there was a moocow coming down along the road and this moocow that was coming down along road met a nicens little boy named baby tuckoo.

In my opinion, convinced of his own genius, James Joyce did not intend people to understand Finnegans Wake; he wrote it ingeniously, but also as a pun against writers and readers alike - the subjectivity of creating and understanding art. What an individual writes, only s/he fully understands it, its intentions, its metaphors and similes - everything! - and a reader only interprets it from his/her perspective. Thus Finnegans Wake operates much like a psychological exam - a reader's own mind operates by its own means to understand such nonsense.

So, closer to the point. The passage in question at the time being is:

"Here in Moicane we flop on the seamy side, but up n'ent, prospector, you sprout all your worth and you woof your wings, so if you want to be Phoenixed, come and be parked."

This passage, in my opinion, blows a bit of an insult on prospectors, perhaps one outlooking a land, mapping it, whatever. "Moicane"? I have no idea, but it could mean some sort of foreign or imaginary land, knowing that whimsical Joyce. That "we flop on the seamy side" could mean two things, but both of which give a difference, perhaps an insulting one, between the narrator and the prospector - on the "seamy" side, such as in addressing seams of fabric (borders, strong areas, where one place meets another); or on the "seemy" side - from a land that "seems" (thus the possibly fiction land of Moicane) rather than actually "is." "Up n'ent" - here I think Joyce refers to an actual location - the River Nent in northern England, close to the border of Scotland; upstream along the River Nent lies Scotland, a land in a seemingly infinite war with Ireland, Joyce's native land - whether or not the prospector could represent Scotland, I admittedly have no idea.
The last clause, "you sprout all your worth and you woof your wings, so if you want to be Phoenixed, come and be parked," seems a bit easier. When I think of "sprout" I think of plants and land - a prospector measures, identifies, and explores lands, and Joyce seems to take the prospector as an immodest one, flaunting his "worth." "[W]oof your wings" - simple onomatopoeia - the sound of immense Phoenix wings can make such a sound.
The Phoenix refers to an enormous and exceptionally beautiful mythical bird that burnt itself on a funeral pyre. Joyce especially insults the perceived boastful prospector, a traveler, a foreigner, possibly a Scot, in this respect, basically telling him to "come here and be parked" to get burned at a stake.

Whew! *wipes sweat from forehead*
FYI, I would not call my interpretation of this passage entirely true, nor what James Joyce intended, but only my own basic analysis, thrown together in some 20 minutes. If you plan on studying Finnegans Wake, I would highly recommend looking into A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake by Joseph Campbell and Henry Morton Robinson; I purchased this while reading Finnegans Wake and it offered a lot of help.
Good luck!

[Emil Miller]

Hi, everybody!!

My mother' tongue is Russian. Besides, "Finnegan Wake" hasn't yet been translated into Russian. For all I know, the last attempt to translate some forty pages of that book took around five years or so. :

If it took five years to translate forty pages, the question that immediately comes to mind is......Why bother?

[mollie]

Blacklilac,

A caveat - I haven't read Finnegan's Wake, and I can't suggest a meaning for the passage, but as a native of Dublin, the words suggest the following things to me.

"Here in Moicane we flop on the seamy side, but up n'ent, prospector, you sprout all your worth and you woof your wings, so if you want to be Phoenixed, come and be parked."

I would imagine Moicane would be pronounced Moy-CAN, with the accent on the can part. The Moi part would, I think, be pronounced somewhere between my and moy.

Moicane is not a place I have ever heard of or can find reference to. The only reference to it on the web that I can find has been the suggestion that it's a made up name that Joyce intended to represent Dublin's red light district.

Flop - a flophouse is a very seedy hotel, where down and outs would seek cheap lodgings. We flop, I think, is to lodge in such a place, or to find a cheap bed for the night.

On the seamy side - seamy, meaning of questionable morality, would suggest that they lodge in a place of bad reputation, or perhaps in a brothel.

n'ent, sounds like a contraction of the Irish word fornent, or fornenst, which means beside or near to. Up n'ent, I think, means up beside there, or near that place.

Woof your wings - woof means nothing to me as a word in this context. I think it is intended to represent the sound of a bird flapping its wings and taking flight, as mono mentioned earlier. It also suggests the sound of a fire catching and blazing up.

The mythological bird the Phoenix rose from its own ashes, so it suggests resurrection, or rising up.

The use of the words Phoenix and park so close together would suggest to any Dubliner the Phoenix Park, which is a large and very famous park in Dublin. You can look this up on Wikipedia. It is very near to Chapelizod, where Humphrey has his pub. The River Liffey flows nearby. Humphrey is also associated with the politician Charles Stewart Parnell, who was the victim of attempts made to implicate him in political assassinations known as the "Phoenix Park Murders". Humphrey is likewise embroiled in a sexual scandal that took place in the Phoenix Park.

I speak very poor Irish, and have forgotten most of the Latin, French or German I ever knew, so I am missing out on the multi-lingual puns which I know are in there.

As I said, I'm not a Joycean scholar, nor have I ever read Finnegan's Wake, and I intend only to give you the meanings of the words to a Dublin person.

Joyce took great joy in the sound of words, and the music they made together - he used to ask his wife, Nora Barnacle, a native of Galway, to tell him things for the pleasure of listening to the way words sounded when she said them. If a particular passage makes little sense to you, enjoy the music of it, and don't worry about it too much.

Brian, you bother to translate it for the same reason you complete cryptic crosswords or jigsaws!

[Emil Miller]

Brian, you bother to translate it for the same reason you complete cryptic crosswords or jigsaws!

There is always the possibility of completing a jigsaw or cryptic crossword but I would suggest there is little, if any, concerning Finnegan's Wake.

The following quote will give you some idea of what I mean:

Daferring on red hair moots the ramdelgerag! Cays hast ner eyed the entire lash from the libre, does get sidlelassinlunahack? And for ery' scholar of jits and wallyfins, dare may cieved a consciousable readament of peering quenth Labrynth. Hark! Vain! Rack! Finnegans Wake dost injoyafun for the kathweolasopkookoo. One glance may planner read and ner open this Rhodical magnumus.

[mollie]

Quoting Brian Bean - There is always the possibility of completing a jigsaw or cryptic crossword but I would suggest there is little, if any, concerning Finnegan's Wake.

Hey Brian,

Yeah, I know where you're coming from, but at the same time, I've been doing the Irish Times crossword for years and I've finished it a handful of times. Even so, I still love doing it, it's a mental exercise that appeals to me, whether I succeed or not.

Joyce isn't what you'd call my favourite writer, so I can certainly appreciate why you wouldn't be interested in what he has to say, or have a conviction that he has nothing to say, and you might well be right, but for anyone who made up their own language as a kid, or likes things like cryptic crosswords, puns, messing around with words, manky jokes, or just the musical nature of language, Joyce can provide a great deal of pleasure.

Absolutely take your point that he's not for everybody - he's frequently not for me! Sorry about the essay, Blacklilac I'm not helping you here...!

[Emil Miller]

Quoting Brian Bean - There is always the possibility of completing a jigsaw or cryptic crossword but I would suggest there is little, if any, concerning Finnegan's Wake.

Hey Brian,

Yeah, I know where you're coming from, but at the same time, I've been doing the Irish Times crossword for years and I've finished it a handful of times. Even so, I still love doing it, it's a mental exercise that appeals to me, whether I succeed or not.

Joyce isn't what you'd call my favourite writer, so I can certainly appreciate why you wouldn't be interested in what he has to say, or have a conviction that he has nothing to say, and you might well be right, but for anyone who made up their own language as a kid, or likes things like cryptic crosswords, puns, messing around with words, manky jokes, or just the musical nature of language, Joyce can provide a great deal of pleasure.

Absolutely take your point that he's not for everybody - he's frequently not for me! Sorry about the essay, Blacklilac I'm not helping you here...!

Well Mollie, as long as you enjoy unravelling Joyce's complexities there is nothing I can add, but at least you understand why many of us can't be bothered with them. If Joyce is not your favourite writer, I was wondering who is.

[Jeremiah Jazzz]

"Here in Moicane we flop on the seamy side, but up n'ent, prospector, you sprout all your worth and you woof your wings, so if you want to be Phoenixed, come and be parked.'

ALP is always water throughout most of the Wake. And yes, here I would say that it is in the context of HCE's sexual scandal in the Phoenix Park.

[mollie]

Well Mollie, as long as you enjoy unravelling Joyce's complexities there is nothing I can add, but at least you understand why many of us can't be bothered with them. If Joyce is not your favourite writer, I was wondering who is.

Changes with the hour. Orwell or Austen. Yourself?

[Emil Miller]

Changes with the hour. Orwell or Austen. Yourself?

William Somerset Maugham. If you go to the thread about great short story writers, you will see that I have made some comments about him.

[mono]

Hmmm, interesting interpretation, mollie, and yours sounds a lot more accurate than mine; even if you have not read Finnegans Wake, I suppose comprehending Joyce's language comes with its benefits. This sounded especially relieving to hear, because I felt like I searched every corner of the Internet for "Moicane":

I would imagine Moicane would be pronounced Moy-CAN, with the accent on the can part. The Moi part would, I think, be pronounced somewhere between my and moy.

Moicane is not a place I have ever heard of or can find reference to. The only reference to it on the web that I can find has been the suggestion that it's a made up name that Joyce intended to represent Dublin's red light district.

Much like poetry, I feel as though one can interpret Joyce in an infinite number of ways, even despite education, as you mentioned you have not read Finnegans Wake; I would love to hear some of your other interpretations, too. A reader must have a higher than average recognition for other literature, geography, perhaps philosophy and mythology, but much of it feels like pulling teeth!

[blacklilac]

Dear Sirs!!

I would like to thank everyone of those who answered to my plea for help so far, especially Mollie and Mono for Your thorough and interesting analysis, it was my pleasure to read your answers.

As to the question of Brian that is "why bother?" - for the fun of it.I was amazed by my inability to make up anything of the passage in question - seemingly rather ordinary, while being apart, words collapsed and brought forth no perceivable meaning as a sentence. It is fun, in my opinion, to try and decipher things, sort of a challenge contrived by an author and thrown from the time past and into the future.

Besides, it is a good reason to get in touch with other people, communication is also very much fun. And Moicane, yes, is an old red light district in Dublin, McKenna points it out.

Wish all the best and sincerely yours, blacklilac.