January / Thriller Reading: The New York Trilogy by Paul Auster

[Thespian1975]

On to Ghosts. The Theme of watching, identity and words arise again. Naming everyone after colours is a good touch.

It's not as good as City of Glass but very interesting.

Has anyone read Walden by Thoreau? Are there themes linking it to Ghosts?

[Paige19]

I am going to do some research on this Thoreau question. I do at this point know that one of the other influences in Auster is Emersonian transcendentalism. So I'll start there.

[bouquin]

Exactly, how does the narrator know anything prior to Quinn writing in the notebook? or that Quinn "tended to feel out of place in his own skin". Unless Quinn wrote this in the notebook.

But then who is feeding Quinn? Is someone feeding Quinn? Has Quinn gone into his own world like the homeless people he desribes? Quinn has never known who he really is, we've already mentioned William Wilson and Max Work but he makes mention early on of friends giving him clothes when he was just starting out and what about claiming to be Auster? (And how twisted (yet cool) is it to have a character in the book by the same name as the author? )

Is this a continuation of Stillman Sr's experiment? Could the Stillmans have made up the whole thing to experiment with Quinn? Peter started out with no contact with others and is brought into society the reverse is true of Quinn he was brought with normal human contact but slowly reverts into himself.

We can perhaps safely presume that the things that the narrator tells us was all written down by Quinn in his red notebook. Initially, Quinn limited his entries to his impressions of the Stillmans and his detective work. But at some point, as he started losing control, there was a shift and he began writing about things more personal. So it is highly likely that he eventually got around to telling his own story right from the beginning. Where I am more doubtful is with regards Quinn's reliability. He was hurtling into a serious mental breakdown so who knows, his impressions and recordings could be more the product of his own deranged imagination (including the food that was mysteriously provided for him at the Stillman appartment) rather than factual.

[TheFifthElement]

Actually, the whole book feels like an exploration in American literature, or perhaps a literature degree. Some big names in there: Poe, Whitman, Thoreau, Hawthorne.

Virgil, I don't know what egg creams are - can you enlighten me?


Ooh, sorry I looked it up. Did you know the egg cream was invented by Louis Auster? Freaky

[Paige19]

Based on my research, the importance of Thoreau is that both Blue and Black are, like Thoreau during his Walden experiment, in a state of self-exile. Black chooses this, and then forces Blue to do the same by making him shadow Black's every move. Walden is an experiment in self-reliance outside of society. Both men are basically locked in a room, alone.

Apparently, Auster himself has said of the story that "Ghosts" is dominated by "the spirit of Thoreau... Walden Pond in the heart of the city."

And oh, I have not had an egg cream in probably forty-odd years! My Grandmother used to make them for me all the time. My grandparents always had a seltzer dispenser thing in the fridge. I think it had a black top.

How about Charlotte Russe? Another childhood memory.

[Virgil]

Virgil[/B], I don't know what egg creams are - can you enlighten me?


Ooh, sorry I looked it up. Did you know the egg cream was invented by Louis Auster? Freaky

Oh my God, that is no coincidence. Auster, the author, had to know that an Auster invented the egg cream.

An egg cream is a classic beverage consisting of chocolate syrup, milk, and seltzer (soda water), probably dating from the late 19th century, and is especially associated with Brooklyn, home of its alleged inventor, candy store owner Louis Auster.[1][2] [3]It contains neither eggs nor cream. Some enthusiasts insist that an egg cream must be made with Fox's U-Bet, a chocolate syrup manufactured by H. Fox & Company[citation needed].

The egg cream is almost exclusively a fountain drink; although there have been several attempts to bottle it, none has been wholly successful, as its fresh taste and characteristic head requires mixing of the ingredients just before drinking. The drink can be compared to a traditional ice cream soda, though it contains no ice cream.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_cream

This is a very New York thing. Actually I'm afraid it's disappearing. Or I haven't seen any around any longer. Could be me. I haven't had one in decades.

[Virgil]

Oh I had to laugh when he's on the subway and a deaf mute panhandles. I remember those guys on the subway all the time. It was a frequent occurence that a deaf mute would hand out the whole subway car some item and then coe around and ask for a donation or collect them back. I don't remember pens with flags like in the book. I remember something that was a handy item that had deaf sign language signals on it.

It just occurred to me that if this novel is set in the early 1980's, then that was when I did the most commuting in my life through New York. That was when I was a college student and commutted an hour up from Brooklyn to Harlem to school, not too far actually from Quinn's apartment.

I haven't seen NickAdams around lately. Nick, are those deaf mutes still panhandling on the subway?

[Cat_Brenners]

I will read this when I can get around to it. I am sooo busy writing and reading some other things right now to read this. Will comment later on it too.
Cat

[TheFifthElement]

TheFifthElement I like your ideas on Quinn/Willson/Work trio, but I have a bit different theory. I agree the story is greatly related with the problem of self identification, but I think this is going even beyond the aforementioned trio. I think all the characters are actually various interpretations on Quinn, in some way they all are Quinn and Quinn is all of them. In different moments in the story he becomes or may be it is better to say he is strongly associated with everyone of them and this is a constant process. Actually, he is never simply Daniel Quinn. In the beginning he is also William Willson and Max Work and later he becomes also Paul Auster. We will see that the other Auster is another version of Quinn, since he is what the main character would have been if his wife and child weren't dead. Then we have the Petter Stilmans. This similarity comes up in the end of the story, when in the dark room Quinn becomes both Peter Stillman (there he treflects mainly on the things he heard from him, he actually starts thinking ih Stillman's manner) and Petter Stillman junior (the conditions in the dark room are the main similarity here. Still, as you said there is some similarity between them in the phrase 'that is not my name'. In the case of Quinn it is easy to interpret it, but when it comes to PSJ it's different; I think he still thinks in the manner and with the words that he was used to when he was in the dark room, so I suppose he has his name, given by himself in the language he had in the dark.) All these characters are some personalisation of certain stages of Quinn's personality changes.

There is something else which I find interesting and important - the theory on Don Quixote. I think it is something like a suggestion how this book it is supposed or at least could be read. When you think about it actually Paul Auster (I mean the author here not anyone of the Paul Austers in the story) is also trying to pass the book as something that isn't fiction. Well, not exactly at the manner Cervantes does, but still there is something like it. In this manner of thought the initials the characters share should be strongly related. I haven't thought it through, so I can't say what exactly this scheme will mean if we use it on "City of Glass", but I think there is some link between them. Any ideas?

Hi Alexei, for some reason I missed these comments earlier.

Yes! I like your thinking. Have you given any thought to the purpose of the second Peter Stillman snr? I wondered if that was a red herring or a point to elucidate the point you've made above.

I finished City of Glass this morning. I think there's a lot of 'telling' in the Auster chapter, particularly with reference to Don Quixote and the link between these two books. Specifically these passages:

'And yet he goes on to say,' Quinn added, 'that Cid Hamete Benegeli's is the only true version of Don Quixote's story. All the other versions are frauds, written by imposters. He makes a great point of insisting that everything in the book really happened.'
'Exactly. Because the book after all is an attack on the dangers of the make-believe. He couldn't very well offer a work of the imagination to do that could he? He had to claim that it was real.'
'Still, I've always suspected that Cervantes devoured those old romances. You can't hate something so violently unless a part of you also loves it. In some sense, Don Quixote was just a stand-in for himself.'

Note that it was said in the beginning that Quinn read stacks of detective novels.
And this passage too:

'That's the most interesting part of all. In my opinion, Don Quixote was conducting an experiment. He wanted to test the gullibility of his fellow men. Would it be possible to stand up before the world and with the utmost conviction spew out lies and nonsense? To say that windmills were knights, that a barber's basin was a helmet, that puppets were real people? Would it be possible to persuade others to agree with what he said, even though they did not believe him? In other words, to what extent would people tolerate blasphemies if they gave them amusement? The answer is obvious isn't it? To any extent. For the proof is that we still read the book. It remains highly amusing to us. Ans that's finally all anyone wants out of a book - to be amused.'

And then you find in City of Glass that the 'narrator' goes to great pains to present this as a true account. Then I wonder, if the whole question Auster (the character) raises over the authorship of Don Quixote is, in truth, a question over the authorship of City of Glass. Is Daniel Quinn, Don Quixote? From what I have read of Don Quixote, that is not his real name, he adopts the name Quixote when his delusions prompt him to take on the role of knight errant. So Daniel Quinn is Don Quixote, who has read so many detective fiction novels that he deludes himself into thinking he can be the real thing. He adopts the name Paul Auster for the role, and goes out to have a series of bizarre, absurd adventures that suspend belief. A man who so wholly deludes himself that he gives up his entire life to become a fiction character in a novel?

I also noticed that the original lead to the Paul Auster detective agency came from the retired policeman husband of the nurse, Mrs Saavedra. His name is Michael, the Spanish version of which would be Miguel. Who is the author of Don Quixote: Miguel De Cervantes Saavedra!

[TheFifthElement]

Ack! I have library issues and have to break off reading TNYT to read As I Lay Dying before it's due back. Will pick up in a few days, hopefully. Currently part way through Ghosts - I wondered about the stories he mentions: the murdered child, the skiing man who discovers his own father, the engineer who constructed the Brooklyn Bridge. Is there a point to these stories?

[bouquin]

And then you find in City of Glass that the 'narrator' goes to great pains to present this as a true account. Then I wonder, if the whole question Auster (the character) raises over the authorship of Don Quixote is, in truth, a question over the authorship of City of Glass. Is Daniel Quinn, Don Quixote? From what I have read of Don Quixote, that is not his real name, he adopts the name Quixote when his delusions prompt him to take on the role of knight errant. So Daniel Quinn is Don Quixote, who has read so many detective fiction novels that he deludes himself into thinking he can be the real thing. He adopts the name Paul Auster for the role, and goes out to have a series of bizarre, absurd adventures that suspend belief. A man who so wholly deludes himself that he gives up his entire life to become a fiction character in a novel?

I also noticed that the original lead to the Paul Auster detective agency came from the retired policeman husband of the nurse, Mrs Saavedra. His name is Michael, the Spanish version of which would be Miguel. Who is the author of Don Quixote: Miguel De Cervantes Saavedra!

City of Glass : the narrator

Surely the narrator himself realizes that Quinn's story is so strange that it could come across as implausible, far-fetched -- thus the need for him now and again to underline its veracity and reliability. I personally do not attach much importance to the identity of the narrator. What surprised me though was that he should turn up suddenly in the first person at the last page. I think it was clever of Paul Auster (the author) to have found roles for himself and his family in his own work and to use names to link the characters to one another, like Daniel Quinn - Daniel Auster, Peter Stillman Sr. - Jr. -Peter Quinn, Michael Saavedra - Miguel Cervantes, etc. It makes me think of those mirrors that reflect an image on and on, further and further - probably one explanation for the story's title.

[NickAdams]

Fanshawe has returned!

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.

Actually if the three stories are not interlinked, I would not have to read all three.

I think all three must be read for complete understanding.

I haven't seen NickAdams around lately. Nick, are those deaf mutes still panhandling on the subway?

I haven't come across a panhandling deaf mute in over a year, but other classes of panhandlers remain.

[bouquin]

Fanshawe has returned!

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.

The surrealism, the absurdity of it all, the loneliness and self-doubts of the principal characters, the wandering in the streets and the hiding somehow remind me of Notes from the Underground and Gogol's The Nose and The Coat.

[Amethyst2010]

I just finished City of Glass. I am surprised that I actually like the story because of its absurdity and strangeness.
Men are sociable creatures, even if some prefer solitude and being alone more than others. Perhaps we don't recognise the madness in ourselves, so having someone around who will point out whether our obsession has become craziness, could stop a person from going completely insane or schizophrenic.
All the discussions on names and how they are related are very interesting. Does Virginia in Virginia Stillman mean anything ?

[TheFifthElement]

I'm back in after the quickest reading of As I Lay Dying in living history! OK, probably not

City of Glass : the narrator

Surely the narrator himself realizes that Quinn's story is so strange that it could come across as implausible, far-fetched -- thus the need for him now and again to underline its veracity and reliability. I personally do not attach much importance to the identity of the narrator. What surprised me though was that he should turn up suddenly in the first person at the last page. I think it was clever of Paul Auster (the author) to have found roles for himself and his family in his own work and to use names to link the characters to one another, like Daniel Quinn - Daniel Auster, Peter Stillman Sr. - Jr. -Peter Quinn, Michael Saavedra - Miguel Cervantes, etc. It makes me think of those mirrors that reflect an image on and on, further and further - probably one explanation for the story's title.

I think the same can be said of Don Quixote, certainly from what I have read.

I agree, the name links seem very calculated.

Fanshawe has returned!

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.

I came out of my first reading of this book wanting to do exactly as you've mentioned! I'm still resolved to read Don Quixote all the way through ( I started but didn't finish!) and I have Walden to read and a Hawthorne collection as well.

I never understood Mulholland Drive! Please explain it to me Nick