Female Characters

[kandaurov]

Mona, I agree with you on most points. Yes, Jane Eyre is indeed rattled by St John Rivers, but in the end her obstinancy and integrity makes her refuse him, as she is still emotionally bound to Rochester, so I see her refusal as adding on to her independent nature rather than undercutting it.

Well, I'm partially guilty of Jane Eyre's hijack of this thread, so let me suggest another character: Sophia in Crime in Punishment.

[faithalina]

She voluntarily sees herself as weak and plain and unlovable as a means of justifying her petty existence, and creating a reason for self-pity. Her notions of her own plainess are used by her to deprecate herself, and therefore justify her own self loathing. Yes, I would call that self-torture, especially when it gets mixed up with the obscure romance, of which she can never feel herself capable of being loved, or being worth notice. I believe the Torcher instead of torture was a typo when I guess I wasn't thinking - sorry for the mistake. I must have been preoccupied with the books ending, and trying to add that to my argument, and had missed the fact that I substituted the homophone in there.

I'm not sure I agree entirely with this perspective, simply because I feel that Jane was a product of her upbringing, which of course, was hardly pleasant. She was forced to believe that she was worthless and deserved no good thing and such beliefs in general tend to be easier to accept of ourselves, than that we are special and unique etc, particularly when we've never been called so. What separates Jane, I think, from many others of less than ideal circumstances is that despite her low opinion of herself, she still stays true to what SHE believes is right (regardless of what anyone else thinks) and can therefore feel good about herself in that respect. I think once she and Rochester acknowledged their love for each other, she was able to accept that she was 'worthy', but not just to be loved, but to be loved properly...ie, without the dark cloud of a past wrong hanging over them.

[TheFifthElement]

Angela Carter writes strong female characters brilliantly. Try The Magic Toyshop or Heroes and Villains. Nothing tomboyish or overly girly about any of them. Her short story collection The Bloody Chamber otherwise known as fairy tales with a twist is excellent too.

Fay Weldon is pretty cool too: Life and Loves of a She Devil, Big Women and Praxis spring to mind, though Weldon does tend to be feminist which is not to everyone's taste.

I Capture the Castle by Dodi Smith might be a good choice too, or White Oleander by Janet Fitch.

[faithalina]

Angela Carter writes strong female characters brilliantly. Try The Magic Toyshop or Heroes and Villains. Nothing tomboyish or overly girly about any of them. Her short story collection The Bloody Chamber otherwise known as fairy tales with a twist is excellent too.

Thoroughly enjoyed The Bloody Chamber. Quite interesting renditions of various Fairytales...

[LitNetIsGreat]

That doesn't sound like Jane Eyre to me. She bemoans her lack of beauty, like a lot of other teenage girls, but never feels she's unworthy of being loved by Rochester. She is quite aware that he desires her. She just feels that he isn't going to marry her, for worldly reasons, and even finds fault with him for this. She's only being realistic. Once he offers to marry her, she stops agonising about her plainness.

Jane only feels equal to Rochester after she has come into money and after Rochester has lost his sight in the fire. It is at this stage that she declares "reader I married him" the power being with her, before these events however I would argue that Jane feels wholly inferior to Rochester.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Thoroughly enjoyed The Bloody Chamber. Quite interesting renditions of various Fairytales...

Yes I found these quite readable, but I detest The Nights at the Circus, magic realism at its most insane.

[faithalina]

Jane only feels equal to Rochester after she has come into money and after Rochester has lost his sight in the fire. It is at this stage that she declares "reader I married him" the power being with her, before these events however I would argue that Jane feels wholly inferior to Rochester.

I think yes, in terms of worldy experience and means, however, intellectually and emotionally, if i remember rightly, she was, in ways, superior to Rochester and quite aware of the fact.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I think yes, in terms of worldy experience and means, however, intellectually and emotionally, if i remember rightly, she was, in ways, superior to Rochester and quite aware of the fact.

Maybe in some ways but overall I still feel Rochester holds far greater superiority over Jane, take these passage as a typical example:

I did as I was bid, though I would have much rather have remained somewhat in the shade; but Mr Rochester has such a direct way of giving orders, it seemed a matter of course to obey him promptly.
(p131 old penguin copy)

Passages like this seem quite common and it doesn't show much superiority in favour of Jane, "direct way," "giving orders," Obeying "promptly?"

[kandaurov]

I would argue that Rochester is confered an authoritative voice of command so that Jane Eyre's resistance to his plea becomes all the more heroic.

[faithalina]

Maybe in some ways but overall I still feel Rochester holds far greater superiority over Jane, take these passage as a typical example:

I did as I was bid, though I would have much rather have remained somewhat in the shade; but Mr Rochester has such a direct way of giving orders, it seemed a matter of course to obey him promptly.
(p131 old penguin copy)

Passages like this seem quite common and it doesn't show much superiority in favour of Jane, "direct way," "giving orders," Obeying "promptly?"

indeed...however, she is dependent on him for her living therefore making respect and obedience necessary for survival. His arrogance and self importance colour his expression. I feel that her ability to endure him and rise above her circumstances in order to maintain her independence shows her superior character.

[mona amon]

Jane only feels equal to Rochester after she has come into money and after Rochester has lost his sight in the fire. It is at this stage that she declares "reader I married him" the power being with her, before these events however I would argue that Jane feels wholly inferior to Rochester.

I agree that she only feels equal to Rochester when she gains literal equality. He enjoys patronising her from his superior worldly position, and she hates that and wants their relative positions to be more equal. But she doesn't feel inferior, just unequally matched, if that makes sense.

Anyway, she never feels at any point that she, as a person, is unworthy of being loved by Rochester.

[TheFifthElement]

Yes I found these quite readable, but I detest The Nights at the Circus, magic realism at its most insane.

Yes, Nights at the Circus didn't do it for me either. I don't think I've ever finished it.

[Bitterfly]

Angela Carter writes strong female characters brilliantly. Try The Magic Toyshop or Heroes and Villains. Nothing tomboyish or overly girly about any of them. Her short story collection The Bloody Chamber otherwise known as fairy tales with a twist is excellent too.

Fay Weldon is pretty cool too: Life and Loves of a She Devil, Big Women and Praxis spring to mind, though Weldon does tend to be feminist which is not to everyone's taste.

Oh, I so agree with both your examples!! And I shamelessly LOVED Nights at the Circus - magical realism is wild! (a wonderful Weldon book is The Shrapnel Academy, if you haven't read it)

What about Thursday Next (from the Jasper Fforde series) for an attractive, contemporary female character? I really identified with her.

Ada from the eponymous Nabokov novel?

Thackeray's females characters in Vanity Fair?

[OzBlackman]

You may like North and South.
Margaret Hale is often considered one of the greatest heroines in Victorian literature.

[kelby_lake]

Vanity Fair!
Becky Sharp- total anti-heroine!