Although I initiated this thread and decided to read "Les Miserables," I am going to take a Hiatus from the book for a short period of time so that I can devote my time to "Crime and Punishment," by Dostoevsky. We are currently having a discussion about that novel in the other forum.
I will get back to "Les Miserables" shortly.
Les Miserables is a great book, and though I've just finished it...I'd still love to continue discussing it. I'm also trying to look for social comments Hugo's trying to say, especially through the main characters. However, I can't really find anything about Cosette aside from child abuse...can anyone help me with that??
Hi Violet Quartz, and welcome to this forum.Originally Posted by Violet Quartz
Well, even thought it was years ago, that I read this tremendous book, maybe I can add someting here.
Fantine, Cosette's mother, is forced by poverty and the unfairness of society to turn to prostitution in order to support her child. Also, she has to place her in a home living away from herself, since she has no one to turn to or other option; remember she feels this is best for her child; little does she suspect the child abuse that goes on; Fantine has been deceived, robbed. Fantine is 'imprisoned', much the same as Jean Valjean is, within a corrupt system; recall that he stole the bread to feed his family. Both put family ahead of themselves. As far, as directly speaking about Cosette in relation to social commentary, she is a product of this sad alienation from her mother and the abuse she endures daily; amazing she turns out so well. I don't know what else you cold contribute to her, as far as social commentary; perhaps that she could love an adopted parent as though he were her own blood relative, maybe even better. Perhaps her reasons, at first, for being so drawn to Marius, are because he is part of the noble 'cause' to end this corrupt system; so, in many ways she sees Marius as a 'heroic' figure; one that could help end the injustice, that her mother had to endure, as well as her step-father/guardian, Jean Valjean. Marius and Cosette represent the 'new generation', of those who will, with their persistent efforts, eventually change the system and people's way of thinking.
Last edited by Janine; 12-28-2008 at 01:16 AM.
"It's so mysterious, the land of tears."
Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
I agree with that approach, Janine!
In addition t at you said about putting their family first:
Somewhere a little further (I think when Jean Valjean has taken Cosette to their first place in Paris, I think, where they need to leave because Javert has found them) it says that there was a great need for rowers for the galleys and thus needed prisoners (they relied on). As a result, crimes that were before a minor offence which wouldn't require such a harsh punishment but just imprisonment (like what happened to Thénardier who was getting charity under false pretences), they were made galley-offences which had a bigger supply of rowers for the galleys as a result.
It shows the irony and coincidence of Jean Valjean's lot as opposed to the on of Thénardier who keeps on doing what he does and is not punished seriously for it while Jean Valjean is punished harshly for a bread he stole, just because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Fantine was tricked by a student she loved and thought he was going to marry her and then got ripped off by Thénardier... Wrong place at the wrong time again. If only she hadn't met Mme Thénardier...
One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.
"Je crains [...] que l'âme ne se vide à ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scène VII)
I've been through Les Mis 3 times, however the book is so long that it is hard to give full intellectual attention to all of it. Nonetheless, I regard it as one of the greatest stories ever told for its literal achievments, and more for its vision of human greatness even in the midst of depravity. For anyone as fascinated with Hugo as I am, I highly suggest breezing through Ayn Rand's collection of essay's Philosophy: Who Needs It where Rand shows her deep and hard earned reverence for Hugo's ethics. Looking at the big picture of the story, I believe that those who grasp the subtle interconnectivity of the many events of the story, not only understand Hugo's brilliance, but see a philosophical case for Faith unsurpassed in the last century. If a reader would choose just one of Hugo's historical references to research a bit further, it would have to be Voltaire, to get a full appreciation of the intellectual army Hugo is fighting in between the lines of this story. Thank you all for the postings on Les Mis. It is a lot of fun to share these thoughts.
I haven't read the book yet (my uncle's copy seems to be missing), but I did see the musical and I absolutely loved it! Eponine is my favorite character. It's the bit about unrequited love that made me fall in love with the story...I think I was in the sixth grade when I first got acquainted with it...
CARPE DIEM! Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!
-Dead Poets' Society
I SWEAR, BY MY LIFE AND MY LOVE OF IT, THAT I WILL NEVER LIVE FOR THE SAKE OF ANOTHER MAN, NOR ASK ANOTHER MAN TO LIVE FOR MINE.
- John Galt, Atlas Shrugged
Then read the novel and you won't notice Eponine too much.I haven't read the book yet (my uncle's copy seems to be missing), but I did see the musical and I absolutely loved it! Eponine is my favorite character. It's the bit about unrequited love that made me fall in love with the story...
At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.
To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
If you need me urgent, send me a PM
Really, sir? So does that mean that the musical is quite far from the book?
CARPE DIEM! Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!
-Dead Poets' Society
I SWEAR, BY MY LIFE AND MY LOVE OF IT, THAT I WILL NEVER LIVE FOR THE SAKE OF ANOTHER MAN, NOR ASK ANOTHER MAN TO LIVE FOR MINE.
- John Galt, Atlas Shrugged
I don't know, miss. I haven't seen it, but book is really masterpiece. It is a bit long, but worth it.
At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.
To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
If you need me urgent, send me a PM
This is very timely, I have just this morning finished watching Les Miserables, one of the many film versions out there. I have only listened to an abridged audio version of this, I haven't read the complete book, so I imagine that there was so much left out as it is a monumental work. It clearly needs a lot of time and devotion to do Hugo justice, which is why I haven't read the full version yet
I would also like to read The Hunchback of Notre Dame, as I recently heard a radio adaptation, which had me on the verge of tears by the end.
Also try 1793, really good novel. Hugo is great!
At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.
To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
If you need me urgent, send me a PM
Its infact a great book by a Great Novelist.
I have read alot , and its has inspired me .
Jean Valjean is my fav. character and how Hugo came up with such personality
proves the fact that he is a bright writer & with a vision ; and imagination.
I also THE FIRST WORD which Hugo presents in each part of the book
its one that have to be mentioned
best i ever read on introductions .
"He is asleep. Though his mettle was sorely tried,
He lived, and when he lost his angel, died.
It happened calmly, on its own,
The way the night comes when day is done."
Well, that makes me want to read it more then!
CARPE DIEM! Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!
-Dead Poets' Society
I SWEAR, BY MY LIFE AND MY LOVE OF IT, THAT I WILL NEVER LIVE FOR THE SAKE OF ANOTHER MAN, NOR ASK ANOTHER MAN TO LIVE FOR MINE.
- John Galt, Atlas Shrugged
I must agree with bazarov on this one. Eponine is depicted MUCH more sympathetically in the musical than in the book. Plus, she simply doesn't get that much face time in the novel. I feel like the love triangle between Cosette, Marius, and Eponine in the musical is something that the directors really exaggerated to add drama. When Eponine gets shot and dies, she's treated like a martyr by Enjolras' entire company, but in the novel it's tragedy of a much lesser extent. I feel like the musical treats Eponine like the ideal of the French Revolution; she's kind of the unspoken reason the men are rebelling. But in the novel, only Marius mourns her...and not for long, at that.Eponine is my favorite character. It's the bit about unrequited love that made me fall in love with the story...
About Eponine:
I think there is a triangle... But I think the triangle is more in Eponine's head than in Cosette's or Marius'. I have the impression that she (sadly) sought out Cosette, and does stuff for Marius to make him fall in love with her (possibly so she can be a normal woman in stead of a street child). I believe she is a really sad character, there is no hope for her. The very short mourning of Marius speaks as well: when he is about to be shot she saves him by blocking the bullet by her hand and dies, believing he loves her 'as she gave her life for him', but not even that she is allowed to have, because naturally love cannot be earned...
Maybe they have tried to portray her in the musical like 'Marianne' (?), still the symbol of the republic in France. But I don't think that is right...
We have to keep in mind that the misérables, all through the book, are the same, they always end up the same, athough they might climb the ladder they will fall down. It is a certainty. Only Cosette and Marius move up with Cosette's dowry, but that is deerly 'bought' by Jean's life. He did 'penitence' his whole life and never used his money and in the end dies because of sacrifice. Eponine is a perfect example of a misérable: she is anonymous, all through history (the revolution, the end of Napoleon, the new kings, the barricades) she is miserable. Life does not change for her, whether egality, liberty and fraternity are or are not. So portraying her as the reason for the revolution is not right, because it would not have been to Hugo's liking, because 'society did not care about those people', as he proves in his book.
One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.
"Je crains [...] que l'âme ne se vide à ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scène VII)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
