Physics and God

[mangueken]

We agree on some points. Where we disagree is on the matter of the supernatural. You're saying nature and the supernatural are different things. I'm saying the supernatural is simply nature as yet unknown.

I'm think we may be able to agree that science deals with known nature because that is what is able to be studied in direct objective form. I can agree that the supernatural is nature not yet known. Who knows, maybe one day a new science field will develop that has the intellectual and physical tools to study what we currently call the supernatural. Of course once we are able to study and measure effects in that area it will no longer be the supernatural but just the natural.

We also disagree that faith and science can peacefully coexist. In "When Prophesy Fails" Festinger et al found that when believers are faced with fact not aligning with their faith, it is easier to simply disregard the facts.

I do not know that book but as I am headed to the library today, I will check to see if it is there. But I think, and this may not have been you're intention, that you have exaggerated our disagreement. As I wrote in previous posts here that I think science and religion not only can but they must peacefully coexist. That peaceful existence can only come from respect and understanding of each others viewpoints. I could state this in a specific way. Scientists of any field as they are today have no tools available to them to prove or disprove any god-like being. For now that is the realm of the supernatural.
On the other hand, people of faith should understand that their faith does not have tools to explain natural phenomenon. Their faith is a personal question and not everyone need subscribe to one or another of the faith systems to work together on solving common social issuses.
I see extremists on both sides picking on supposed weaknesses of the other rather than on each coming with their strengths to resolve what has a better chance of being resolved if there were more people involved.

[skasian]

Physics is a obviously a branch of science which is a human invention, a set of laws of matter that governs the physical aspects of what we are all surrounded by. Physics tend to include the laws that we cannot particular see as physical such as wavelength and energy.
Let me discuss these two subjects and link it with God.
We all know that Einstein's E=mc2 is the relativity between energy, mass and the speed of light, and we also know that light is in fact a form of energy. We often hear that God infact is light and energy that have created the universe. As light is indeed energy, God can be described as energy. Never formed and never distroyed. Energy is everywhere, so is God. Now let me elaborate on light energy. Where there is light, we can see the truth of the form of an object that light bounces off from. Where there is God, we can see the truth of things, and see what is right and wrong. We often link light with hope, safety and goodness. So is God. Now light makes up the colours ROYGBIV, the colour of the world, where in absence of light makes up shade or a shadow. We know shadows are bottomless pit black, darkness giving sense of hopelessness, horror and death. With out light/God, there is death. With God, there is eternal life, a salvation.
Let us think about the word bright. As it can depict the essence of light in dark places, it can also depict an intelligent person. A bright person is a person who is able to think critically and thoughtfully with accuracy. A bright person's brain seems "switched on" well and well functioned. This is where electrical energy can come in which can also represent God as God can be any energy.
Remember energy gives us life, strength to carry out life function. Without energy we die, therefore without God, we die. Now let us think back to the beginning God created Adam, and He created Him out of his image. Other than physical image, He created us with the same component that functions our body with something he also represents. Electrical energy. Our brains function with billions of neurons, and each neurons have to pass on information in order to carry out our body functions. It is electrical energy that passes from one neuron to another, a spark with critical information to tell the body to do a particular task. So, our brain contains activity of wild electrical energy flow, and without it we die. As God can represent electrical energy, without Him, we die. Back to the word "bright" a person with the most brain activity, thus electrical energy in their brain is most closer to God, where is infinite in every aspect of knowledge and wisdom.
There is another connection. As God who can represent electrical energy, controls the universe, our brain containing electrical energy controls the body. As the word "Christian" means little Christ, this is a linking factor that we are in fact imitators of our God.

[blazeofglory]

Physics and God do not go together. Maybe there is far-fetched relationship but not direct.

[skasian]

Why wouldnt God and physics go together, is there anything in the natural world that he created that doesnt go together with God? Physics contains laws of matter that are invented by man, and these matter are all created by God. Simply, mankind attempts to understand the physical world and matter that God has created. There isnt any barrier God has with physcis however physics is greatly limited to explain a small aspect of God's creations.

[Taliesin]

Physics is a obviously a branch of science which is a human invention, a set of laws of matter that governs the physical aspects of what we are all surrounded by. Physics tend to include the laws that we cannot particular see as physical such as wavelength and energy.
Let me discuss these two subjects and link it with God.
We all know that Einstein's E=mc2 is the relativity between energy, mass and the speed of light, and we also know that light is in fact a form of energy. We often hear that God infact is light and energy that have created the universe. As light is indeed energy, God can be described as energy. Never formed and never distroyed. Energy is everywhere, so is God. Now let me elaborate on light energy. Where there is light, we can see the truth of the form of an object that light bounces off from. Where there is God, we can see the truth of things, and see what is right and wrong. We often link light with hope, safety and goodness. So is God. Now light makes up the colours ROYGBIV, the colour of the world, where in absence of light makes up shade or a shadow. We know shadows are bottomless pit black, darkness giving sense of hopelessness, horror and death. With out light/God, there is death. With God, there is eternal life, a salvation.
Let us think about the word bright. As it can depict the essence of light in dark places, it can also depict an intelligent person. A bright person is a person who is able to think critically and thoughtfully with accuracy. A bright person's brain seems "switched on" well and well functioned. This is where electrical energy can come in which can also represent God as God can be any energy.
Remember energy gives us life, strength to carry out life function. Without energy we die, therefore without God, we die. Now let us think back to the beginning God created Adam, and He created Him out of his image. Other than physical image, He created us with the same component that functions our body with something he also represents. Electrical energy. Our brains function with billions of neurons, and each neurons have to pass on information in order to carry out our body functions. It is electrical energy that passes from one neuron to another, a spark with critical information to tell the body to do a particular task. So, our brain contains activity of wild electrical energy flow, and without it we die. As God can represent electrical energy, without Him, we die. Back to the word "bright" a person with the most brain activity, thus electrical energy in their brain is most closer to God, where is infinite in every aspect of knowledge and wisdom.
There is another connection. As God who can represent electrical energy, controls the universe, our brain containing electrical energy controls the body. As the word "Christian" means little Christ, this is a linking factor that we are in fact imitators of our God.

Skasian, you are treading on thin ice with argument like these, I am afraid.
Firstly, the fact that in English, "bright" is used as a metaphor for an intelligent person shows things about language and culture, if even those.
The thing is that you seem to draw parallels between energy and what is perceived as God - which do exist, but it doesn't show that they are the same thing.

God is of course a bugger to define so your arguments do hold water when you define God as energy, but the problem is that then you will be losing a bunch of properties of God that are commonly associated with it- like personality, for starters. Also, it will lose a lot of mysticism, makes praying and meditation a strictly psychological phenomenon.
But from your text, it seems that God is somehow linked to morality - as you say that we can see right and wrong when we watch things by God - the problem is, when you equate God to energy, one is something transcendent while the other is measurable.
(By the way, when you equate God with electromagnetism, you would do well to attach the three other basic forces too - otherwise it would be a bit weird. )
Or did I totally misunderstand you and you meant it as a simile, a comparison? In that case I beg pardon.

[blazeofglory]

God is a subjective idea and physics is an objective idea.

[skasian]

Skasian, you are treading on thin ice with argument like these, I am afraid.
Firstly, the fact that in English, "bright" is used as a metaphor for an intelligent person shows things about language and culture, if even those.
The thing is that you seem to draw parallels between energy and what is perceived as God - which do exist, but it doesn't show that they are the same thing.

God is of course a bugger to define so your arguments do hold water when you define God as energy, but the problem is that then you will be losing a bunch of properties of God that are commonly associated with it- like personality, for starters. Also, it will lose a lot of mysticism, makes praying and meditation a strictly psychological phenomenon.
But from your text, it seems that God is somehow linked to morality - as you say that we can see right and wrong when we watch things by God - the problem is, when you equate God to energy, one is something transcendent while the other is measurable.
(By the way, when you equate God with electromagnetism, you would do well to attach the three other basic forces too - otherwise it would be a bit weird. )
Or did I totally misunderstand you and you meant it as a simile, a comparison? In that case I beg pardon.

Yes, similie is quite correct, I believe that God is like energy, as He can be in this form when He communicates and moves us. Unless you are not thinking that God is actually everything expect evil and unholiness, then I think you are misunderstanding me. I believe that God is everything good and pure, including energy. The reason why I linked and connected God with physics was because I believe that God made energy, therefore as Physics is the study of energy, by studying physics, we can understand God's creations and complex perfection He had attained.

Actually the word bright I was discussing about is precisely used as a metaphor, as an intelligent person will have more brain activity than the average person, the brain will contain more electric pulses than the average person, therefore supporting that electricity is like God as He has infinite knowledge.

Do you reckon I should edit my previous post so people will know that I was making a similie?

[skasian]

God is a subjective idea and physics is an objective idea.

As God created the matters and substances of physics, there are obvious connections.

[blazeofglory]

As God created the matters and substances of physics, there are obvious connections.

The word God did not create anything. God is beyond creation. Creation is a process that goes autonomously and God has little to do with it.

Of course on the surface you are right. Once you get at the room of it your level of understanding will be intenser.

[skasian]

The word God did not create anything. God is beyond creation. Creation is a process that goes autonomously and God has little to do with it.

Of course on the surface you are right. Once you get at the room of it your level of understanding will be intenser.

God has little to do with creation? I dont mind what ever you think about God, but as a religious person, I do believe that God created the universe and everything organic in it. As energy is included in God's creation, everything he created is connected to Him like a Father.

[blazeofglory]

God has little to do with creation? I dont mind what ever you think about God, but as a religious person, I do believe that God created the universe and everything organic in it. As energy is included in God's creation, everything he created is connected to Him like a Father.

This is a fairy tale and nothing else. If you do not take every word in the bible literally you will understand the fact.

[skasian]

This is a fairy tale and nothing else. If you do not take every word in the bible literally you will understand the fact.

This is where our main differences in our thoughts of religion part our thoughts once again. It really depends on whether you believe in God or not, therefore accepting if there was a Creator or not. As you do not believe in God, you do not believe in a Creator, thus your thoughts of God creating all matters of the world probably is close to nil.

[blazeofglory]

This is where our main differences in our thoughts of religion part our thoughts once again. It really depends on whether you believe in God or not, therefore accepting if there was a Creator or not. As you do not believe in God, you do not believe in a Creator, thus your thoughts of God creating all matters of the world probably is close to nil.

Your inferential conclusion is flawed in point of fact. Do not dupe yourself with ideas that are not convincing.

[skasian]

Your inferential conclusion is flawed in point of fact. Do not dupe yourself with ideas that are not convincing.

Convincing or not, if it is the truth, it holds power.
If it was not, then you would of had disagreed.
The fact that you do not believe in God, it is natural for you to think He and His works are "fairy tale and nothing else".
I say once again, if one speaks the truth, then they dont require persuasion.

[blazeofglory]

Convincing or not, if it is the truth, it holds power.
If it was not, then you would of had disagreed.
The fact that you do not believe in God, it is natural for you to think He and His works are "fairy tale and nothing else".
I say once again, if one speaks the truth, then they dont require persuasion.

Not subscribing to your idea does not entail the fact that I am not a believer.

You need an internal eye to see things beyond the visible.