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Thread: D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

  1. #2596
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Virgil, I thought the same thing, when I saw the photos, about the color yellow, the bluish mountains, also; but Lawrence does emphasis these elements quite often in his description; therefore knowing something about Lawrence, I think he would take the color and observe it, but go beyond that and have it represent something deeper, if only a mood. I recall in "Lady Chatterly's Lover" she went to the woods to see the 'yellow' daffodils, behind the keeper's cottage. I believe her husband's nurse had suggested it, saying there was such a show of 'yellow' flowers there, she should see them. I know that was a prominent thing, in the story and feel it did indeed possess symbolism....she was going towards the light, the sun....as always Lawrence, himself, was seeking light and warmth throughout his life. I think he took the yellow field to mean the positive/warmth and the bluish cold mountains to mean the negative/cold...threatening aspects and forshadowing....afterall, in the dead of the cold night she is cold/shivering and lets Romero come into her bed, but then she rejects him...actually, her rejection comes in the morning, when there would be sunlight. Could the mountains represent the mystery of the man/the 'phallic mystery' in the night? Could the light represent the return to reality or reality as she knew it? Beyond that, I am not sure what they could respresent. Any ideas yourself?

    This is an edit about the photos I posted: Virgil, I checked a map of NM and Taos is situated in the north; also Santa Fe is not far from Taos. This part of the state would have been the part that Lawrence was familiar with. The southern regions are more dessert and barren. The north is more mountainous and woodsy, I believe.
    Last edited by Janine; 12-29-2008 at 01:53 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  2. #2597
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Is everyone lost here? Can we resume this discussion on Monday; what do you think? Hey, Virgil, Dark Muse, Quark, etc...where are you? Just checking the statis for now.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  3. #2598
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    I've completely forgotten. I'll post another section today.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  4. #2599
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    I've completely forgotten. I'll post another section today.
    haha...Virgil, you always come when I call you. I thought you had forgotten. Take your time, just wanted to remind you of the thread. Monday would be fine. Let everyone have their extended holiday.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  5. #2600
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Hey, Virgil, Dark Muse, Quark, etc...where are you?
    We're here, but not here. I've been checking in every once and awhile, but haven't been able to post until now. I was visiting family and friends over Christmas and New Years and couldn't find enough time to say anything substantial about the story--not that I do even when there is time, but you know what I mean.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  6. #2601
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    We're here, but not here. I've been checking in every once and awhile, but haven't been able to post until now. I was visiting family and friends over Christmas and New Years and couldn't find enough time to say anything substantial about the story--not that I do even when there is time, but you know what I mean.
    That is ok, even your simplist comments are fine now and then. I didn't meant imply that were 'simple' ..haha....

    So, Quark, how was your holidays with family and friends. I hope you had a relaxing time off from work and school.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  7. #2602
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    That is ok, even your simplist comments are fine now
    Good, the last thing I need is more work right now. I have a new class to teach semester, and I'm a little buried with preperations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    So, Quark, how was your holidays with family and friends.
    Oh, warm and fuzzy as usual. What about you? Did all your decorating come off without a hitch?
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  8. #2603
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Good, the last thing I need is more work right now. I have a new class to teach semester, and I'm a little buried with preperations.
    I can well understand that. Will we do another Chekhov a few months from now then? That would be fine with me. I need a rest right now in a dire way. BTW, did you get to listen to any of the CD's I send you? "In the Ravine" I thought was quite good but I can't really take that on this month.

    Oh, warm and fuzzy as usual. What about you? Did all your decorating come off without a hitch?
    Glad to hear it. No, actually we did no decorating here. We had huge family crisis and we have problems to solve. It just was sort of a lost Christmas, but hey, there is always next year, right? We did go to my son's and saw the baby most of Christmas day. That part was uplifting. Dinner was nice, too.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  9. #2604
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Ready for the next section. Here it is.

    When they were alone, Romero turned and looked at her curiously, in a way she could not understand, with such a hard glint in his eyes. And for the first time she wondered if she was rash.

    "I hope you don't mind going alone with me," she said.

    "If you want it," he replied.

    They emerged at the foot of the great bare slope of rocky summit, where dead spruce trees stood sparse and bristling like bristles on a grey dead hog. Romero said the Mexicans, twenty years back, had fired the mountains, to drive out the whites. This grey concave slope of summit was corpse-like.

    The trail was almost invisible. Romero watched for the trees which the Forest Service had blazed. And they climbed the stark corpse slope, among dead spruce, fallen and ash-grey, into the wind. The wind came rushing from the west, up the funnel of the canyon, from the desert. And there was the desert, like a vast mirage tilting slowly upwards towards the west, immense and pallid, away beyond the funnel of the canyon. The Princess could hardly look.

    For an hour their horses rushed the slope, hastening with a great working of the haunches upwards, and halting to breathe, scrambling again, and rowing their way up length by length, on the livid, slanting wall. While the wind blew like some vast machine.

    After an hour they were working their way on the incline, no longer forcing straight up. All was grey and dead around them; the horses picked their way over the silver-grey corpses of the spruce. But they were near the top, near the ridge.

    Even the horses made a rush for the last bit. They had worked round to a scrap of spruce forest near the very top. They hurried in, out of the huge, monstrous, mechanical wind, that whistled inhumanly and was palely cold. So, stepping through the dark screen of trees, they emerged over the crest.

    In front now was nothing but mountains, ponderous, massive, down-sitting mountains, in a huge and intricate knot, empty of life or soul. Under the bristling black feathers of spruce near-by lay patches of white snow. The lifeless valleys were concaves of rock and spruce, the rounded summits and the hog-backed summits of grey rock crowded one behind the other like some monstrous herd in arrest.

    It frightened the Princess, it was so inhuman. She had not thought it could be so inhuman, so, as it were, anti-life. And yet now one of her desires was fulfilled. She had seen it, the massive, gruesome, repellent core of the Rockies. She saw it there beneath her eyes, in its gigantic, heavy gruesomeness.

    And she wanted to go back. At this moment she wanted to turn back. She had looked down into the intestinal knot of these mountains. She was frightened. She wanted to go back.

    But Romero was riding on, on the lee side of the spruce forest, above the concaves of the inner mountains. He turned round to her and pointed at the slope with a dark hand.

    "Here a miner has been trying for gold," he said. It was a grey scratched-out heap near a hole--like a great badger hole. And it looked quite fresh.

    "Quite lately?" said the Princess.

    "No, long ago--twenty, thirty years." He had reined in his horse and was looking at the mountains. "Look!" he said. "There goes the Forest Service trail--along those ridges, on the top, way over there till it comes to Lucytown, where is the Goverment road. We go down there--no trail--see behind that mountain--you see the top, no trees, and some grass?"

    His arm was lifted, his brown hand pointing, his dark eyes piercing into the distance, as he sat on his black horse twisting round to her. Strange and ominous, only the demon of himself, he seemed to her. She was dazed and a little sick, at that height, and she could not see any more. Only she saw an eagle turning in the air beyond, and the light from the west showed the pattern on him underneath.

    "Shall I ever be able to go so far?" asked the Princess faintly, petulantly.

    "Oh yes! All easy now. No more hard places."

    They worked along the ridge, up and down, keeping on the lee side, the inner side, in the dark shadow. It was cold. Then the trail laddered up again, and they emerged on a narrow ridge-track, with the mountain slipping away enormously on either side. The Princess was afraid. For one moment she looked out, and saw the desert, the desert ridges, more desert, more blue ridges, shining pale and very vast, far below, vastly palely tilting to the western horizon. It was ethereal and terrifying in its gleaming, pale, half-burnished immensity, tilted at the west. She could not bear it. To the left was the ponderous, involved mass of mountains all kneeling heavily.

    She closed her eyes and let her consciousness evaporate away. The mare followed the trail. So on and on, in the wind again.

    They turned their backs to the wind, facing inwards to the mountains. She thought they had left the trail; it was quite invisible.

    "No," he said, lifting his hand and pointing. "Don't you see the blazed trees?"

    And making an effort of consciousness, she was able to perceive on a pale-grey dead spruce stem the old marks where an axe had chipped a piece away. But with the height, the cold, the wind, her brain was numb.

    They turned again and began to descend; he told her they had left the trail. The horses slithered in the loose stones, picking their way downward. It was afternoon, the sun stood obtrusive and gleaming in the lower heavens--about four o'clock. The horses went steadily, slowly, but obstinately onwards. The air was getting colder. They were in among the lumpish peaks and steep concave valleys. She was barely conscious at all of Romero.

    He dismounted and came to help her from her saddle. She tottered, but would not betray her feebleness.

    "We must slide down here," he said. "I can lead the horses."

    They were on a ridge, and facing a steep bare slope of pallid, tawny mountain grass on which the western sun shone full. It was steep and concave. The Princess felt she might start slipping, and go down like a toboggan into the great hollow.

    But she pulled herself together. Her eye blazed up again with excitement and determination. A wind rushed past her; she could hear the shriek of spruce trees far below. Bright spots came on her cheeks as her hair blew across. She looked a wild, fairy-like little thing.

    "No," she said. "I will take my horse."

    "Then mind she doesn't slip down on top of you," said Romero. And away he went, nimbly dropping down the pale, steep incline, making from rock to rock, down the grass, and following any little slanting groove. His horse hopped and slithered after him, and sometimes stopped dead, with forefeet pressed back, refusing to go farther. He, below his horse, looked up and pulled the reins gently, and encouraged the creature. Then the horse once more dropped his forefeet with a jerk, and the descent continued.

    The Princess set off in blind, reckless pursuit, tottering and yet nimble. And Romero, looking constantly back to see how she was faring, saw her fluttering down like some queer little bird, her orange breeches twinkling like the legs of some duck, and her head, tied in the blue and buff kerchief, bound round and round like the head of some blue-topped bird. The sorrel mare rocked and slipped behind her. But down came the Princess in a reckless intensity, a tiny, vivid spot on the great hollow flank of the tawny mountain. So tiny! Tiny as a frail bird's egg. It made Romero's mind go blank with wonder.

    But they had to get down, out of that cold and dragging wind. The spruce trees stood below, where a tiny stream emerged in stones. Away plunged Romero, zigzagging down. And away behind, up the slope, fluttered the tiny, bright-coloured Princess, holding the end of the long reins, and leading the lumbering, four-footed, sliding mare.
    I guess there are three points I'd like to make on this section.

    1. We see Romero say these words again:
    When they were alone, Romero turned and looked at her curiously, in a way she could not understand, with such a hard glint in his eyes. And for the first time she wondered if she was rash.

    "I hope you don't mind going alone with me," she said.

    "If you want it," he replied.
    I get a kick out of that. I would love to see this in a video version. Notice it's only the first time she finally feels the inpropriety of the situation. She was naive, and still is as we shall see.

    2. The landscape suddenly is associated with death: "This grey concave slope of summit was corpse-like." and
    The trail was almost invisible. Romero watched for the trees which the Forest Service had blazed. And they climbed the stark corpse slope, among dead spruce, fallen and ash-grey, into the wind. The wind came rushing from the west, up the funnel of the canyon, from the desert. And there was the desert, like a vast mirage tilting slowly upwards towards the west, immense and pallid, away beyond the funnel of the canyon. The Princess could hardly look.
    This is very interesting because I think it associates with my point number three, which I'll make here.

    3. I think this is the most important part of the story, when they reach the top of that ridge:
    In front now was nothing but mountains, ponderous, massive, down-sitting mountains, in a huge and intricate knot, empty of life or soul. Under the bristling black feathers of spruce near-by lay patches of white snow. The lifeless valleys were concaves of rock and spruce, the rounded summits and the hog-backed summits of grey rock crowded one behind the other like some monstrous herd in arrest.
    I think she is looking into the heart of eternity, " a huge, intricate knot." A knot I think symbolizes infinity and the mystery of ununderstandable deism, a deism of nature and of whatever deity runs through it. And her reaction is...
    It frightened the Princess, it was so inhuman. She had not thought it could be so inhuman, so, as it were, anti-life. And yet now one of her desires was fulfilled. She had seen it, the massive, gruesome, repellent core of the Rockies. She saw it there beneath her eyes, in its gigantic, heavy gruesomeness.
    Notice the several layers of life we have seen in this story so far. We have seen Dollie, a woman witha strong will, Romero, a man who does not seem to exert his will, we have seen their horses, whch are animals that bend their will to people's will, we have seen those yellow flowers that have no will other than to exist, and now we see infinte nature with a deism with no will, actually a vacuum of will. Dollie cannot understand this mystery. Actually even the horses cannot stand the mystery:
    Even the horses made a rush for the last bit. They had worked round to a scrap of spruce forest near the very top. They hurried in, out of the huge, monstrous, mechanical wind, that whistled inhumanly and was palely cold. So, stepping through the dark screen of trees, they emerged over the crest.
    And when she gets to the crest she repels from the mystery:
    In front now was nothing but mountains, ponderous, massive, down-sitting mountains, in a huge and intricate knot, empty of life or soul. Under the bristling black feathers of spruce near-by lay patches of white snow. The lifeless valleys were concaves of rock and spruce, the rounded summits and the hog-backed summits of grey rock crowded one behind the other like some monstrous herd in arrest.

    It frightened the Princess, it was so inhuman. She had not thought it could be so inhuman, so, as it were, anti-life. And yet now one of her desires was fulfilled. She had seen it, the massive, gruesome, repellent core of the Rockies. She saw it there beneath her eyes, in its gigantic, heavy gruesomeness.

    And she wanted to go back. At this moment she wanted to turn back. She had looked down into the intestinal knot of these mountains. She was frightened. She wanted to go back.
    She has been naive. All she wants to do is see nature, but when the spiritual myserty of it is in front of her, she panics and wants to run away from it. Notice how comfortable Romero is with it.
    But Romero was riding on, on the lee side of the spruce forest, above the concaves of the inner mountains. He turned round to her and pointed at the slope with a dark hand.

    "Here a miner has been trying for gold," he said. It was a grey scratched-out heap near a hole--like a great badger hole. And it looked quite fresh.

    "Quite lately?" said the Princess.

    "No, long ago--twenty, thirty years." He had reined in his horse and was looking at the mountains. "Look!" he said. "There goes the Forest Service trail--along those ridges, on the top, way over there till it comes to Lucytown, where is the Goverment road. We go down there--no trail--see behind that mountain--you see the top, no trees, and some grass?"
    "Not long ago--twenty, thirty years." What's 20 or 30 years when one is comfortable with eternity.

    And finally she reaches the religious climax of the moment:
    They worked along the ridge, up and down, keeping on the lee side, the inner side, in the dark shadow. It was cold. Then the trail laddered up again, and they emerged on a narrow ridge-track, with the mountain slipping away enormously on either side. The Princess was afraid. For one moment she looked out, and saw the desert, the desert ridges, more desert, more blue ridges, shining pale and very vast, far below, vastly palely tilting to the western horizon. It was ethereal and terrifying in its gleaming, pale, half-burnished immensity, tilted at the west. She could not bear it. To the left was the ponderous, involved mass of mountains all kneeling heavily.

    She closed her eyes and let her consciousness evaporate away. The mare followed the trail. So on and on, in the wind again.

    They turned their backs to the wind, facing inwards to the mountains. She thought they had left the trail; it was quite invisible.

    "No," he said, lifting his hand and pointing. "Don't you see the blazed trees?"

    And making an effort of consciousness, she was able to perceive on a pale-grey dead spruce stem the old marks where an axe had chipped a piece away. But with the height, the cold, the wind, her brain was numb.
    Notice the mountains are in a "kneeling" position, a religious image. And she loses consciousness, perhaps almost becoming like the flowers, a lack of will. But she cannot handle it and will experience it, a moment of transfiguration. And she almost has that transifguration:
    But she pulled herself together. Her eye blazed up again with excitement and determination. A wind rushed past her; she could hear the shriek of spruce trees far below. Bright spots came on her cheeks as her hair blew across. She looked a wild, fairy-like little thing.
    That is almost a transfiguration (spots across her face and the look of a wild fairy), but in the next section (that I haven't posted yet) she will pull back from it.
    Last edited by Virgil; 01-03-2009 at 11:40 PM.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  10. #2605
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    I read this all last night but was too tired to answer it. I guess we pretty much agree on all that you wrote here but maybe you are a tiny bit more set on her naivity than I am. I do however, agree she got to a point when she realised she had made the wrong decision to go and wanted to turn back or regretted it or got scared. I don't think one would have to be totally naive to feel that way but she certainly was naive in that she still was virginal, so she did not have a realistic notion of what she was in for, nor could she handle it at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    Ready for the next section. Here it is.

    I guess there are three points I'd like to make on this section.
    1. We see Romero say these words again:

    I get a kick out of that. I would love to see this in a video version. Notice it's only the first time she finally feels the inpropriety of the situation. She was naive, and still is as we shall see.
    You are starting to sound like me. It is a shame they didn't make this one into a production. It would have been real interesting I think.
    Anyway, I would agree with your assessment here.

    2. The landscape suddenly is associated with death: "This grey concave slope of summit was corpse-like." and

    This is very interesting because I think it associates with my point number three, which I'll make here.
    Yes, I agree and I think this is truly powerful and beautiful writing on L's part. The description of the mountains is truly awesome. They do evoke this feeling of a corpse, cold death.

    3. I think this is the most important part of the story, when they reach the top of that ridge:

    I think she is looking into the heart of eternity, " a huge, intricate knot." A knot I think symbolizes infinity and the mystery of ununderstandable deism, a deism of nature and of whatever deity runs through it. And her reaction is...
    Yes, that is excellent and a good observation on your part. I like that part about a "huge, intricate knot"...what an intriguing visual symbol. So true knots do symbolize infinity and mystery. Don't they also suggest the union of a man and woman? The Princess rejects that idea - she does not desire the true union or the transfiguration it would bring to her life. I think this knot could be viewed in many perspectives here.

    Notice the several layers of life we have seen in this story so far. We have seen Dollie, a woman witha strong will, Romero, a man who does not seem to exert his will, we have seen their horses, whch are animals that bend their will to people's will, we have seen those yellow flowers that have no will other than to exist, and now we see infinte nature with a deism with no will, actually a vacuum of will. Dollie cannot understand this mystery. Actually even the horses cannot stand the mystery:
    Yes, 'will' is a big thing here and with subsequent works from this period for Lawrence. "Dollie cannot understand this mystery" - that is absolutely true - she can't comprehend it.

    And when she gets to the crest she repels from the mystery:

    She has been naive. All she wants to do is see nature, but when the spiritual myserty of it is in front of her, she panics and wants to run away from it. Notice how comfortable Romero is with it.
    Yes, they are quite opposites in demeanor and attitude here. 'Panic' is a good word. After that also I think she just shuts down any feeling she may have had towards Romero. He begins to show his will over her now. He is in his own turf; she can't touch him here - he is one with nature.

    "Not long ago--twenty, thirty years." What's 20 or 30 years when one is comfortable with eternity.
    That is an interesting quote.

    And finally she reaches the religious climax of the moment:

    Notice the mountains are in a "kneeling" position, a religious image. And she loses consciousness, perhaps almost becoming like the flowers, a lack of will. But she cannot handle it and will experience it, a moment of transfiguration. And she almost has that transifguration:
    Hadn't noticed that 'kneeling' but I may have and forgotten it. That is good. So you do think she has a 'moment of transfiguration' when she lacks 'will'?

    That is almost a transfiguration (spots across her face and the look of a wild fairy), but in the next section (that I haven't posted yet) she will pull back from it.
    I agree. She retreats within herself; she pulls back from embracing it.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  11. #2606
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    I do not know if I have much I can add to Virgil's comments. I was struck by how much bleaker the scene is starting to become now that she is going off alone to her fate with Romero. Compared to how it was before. It had started out as a rather pleasant trip winding through the canyon, but after the point of the accident of Miss Cummins, it is becoming much more ominous.

    Haha, almost like in a horror story, when a family sets out on a trip together, and then their car breaks down, and everything goes bad from there.

    But this passage really jumped out at me.

    It frightened the Princess, it was so inhuman. She had not thought it could be so inhuman, so, as it were, anti-life. And yet now one of her desires was fulfilled. She had seen it, the massive, gruesome, repellent core of the Rockies. She saw it there beneath her eyes, in its gigantic, heavy gruesomeness.
    It seems to be the sum of The Princess' relations with Romero. The way she felt after the first time they were together, when she at first consented to it. How she was not moved by the experience, and it left her without desire to experience it again, she was unfulfilled by it.

    And she wanted to go back. At this moment she wanted to turn back. She had looked down into the intestinal knot of these mountains. She was frightened. She wanted to go back
    Now that she has reached the point of no-return so to speak, she no longer wants to continue. This is another reflection on her relations with Romero, after it was done, she wished it could be undone. She no longer wanted it, once she discovered just what it was.

    The Princess set off in blind, reckless pursuit, tottering and yet nimble. And Romero, looking constantly back to see how she was faring, saw her fluttering down like some queer little bird, her orange breeches twinkling like the legs of some duck, and her head, tied in the blue and buff kerchief, bound round and round like the head of some blue-topped bird. The sorrel mare rocked and slipped behind her. But down came the Princess in a reckless intensity, a tiny, vivid spot on the great hollow flank of the tawny mountain. So tiny! Tiny as a frail bird's egg. It made Romero's mind go blank with wonder.
    I loved this passage, and I think it does personify the Princess's actions to this point. Her going off with Romero, and her initial attraction or draw to him, had all been very reckless. She never really gave any forward thought to anything she did, but acted upon her initial whims and let them carry her.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  12. #2607
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I do not know if I have much I can add to Virgil's comments. I was struck by how much bleaker the scene is starting to become now that she is going off alone to her fate with Romero. Compared to how it was before. It had started out as a rather pleasant trip winding through the canyon, but after the point of the accident of Miss Cummins, it is becoming much more ominous.
    First time I read this story I felt exactly the same way when they got to these more bleak scenes; from then on things seemed darker and more cold, ominous. I agree with all the rest you wrote.

    Haha, almost like in a horror story, when a family sets out on a trip together, and then their car breaks down, and everything goes bad from there.
    Yes, that is a good one, Dark Muse! Maybe Lawrence missed his calling and would have been good at horror, as well.

    But this passage really jumped out at me.

    It seems to be the sum of The Princess' relations with Romero. The way she felt after the first time they were together, when she at first consented to it. How she was not moved by the experience, and it left her without desire to experience it again, she was unfulfilled by it.
    I totally agree with you here. I wonder too if she was more than just desireless but really repulsed by both - the cold hard mountains and by the man's phallis; the whole act of sex itself.

    Now that she has reached the point of no-return so to speak, she no longer wants to continue. This is another reflection on her relations with Romero, after it was done, she wished it could be undone. She no longer wanted it, once she discovered just what it was.
    Right. It seemed her pursuit mattered more to her than actually getting the experiences. She was quite determined and could not be diverted from her purpose to go.

    I loved this passage, and I think it does personify the Princess's actions to this point. Her going off with Romero, and her initial attraction or draw to him, had all been very reckless. She never really gave any forward thought to anything she did, but acted upon her initial whims and let them carry her.
    Definitely, 'reckless' and without real thought on the possible and probable consequences. Many people act this way, compulsively and so they don't realise the price they will pay in the end. For her, it was definitely a whim.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  13. #2608
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    I read this all last night but was too tired to answer it. I guess we pretty much agree on all that you wrote here but maybe you are a tiny bit more set on her naivity than I am. I do however, agree she got to a point when she realised she had made the wrong decision to go and wanted to turn back or regretted it or got scared. I don't think one would have to be totally naive to feel that way but she certainly was naive in that she still was virginal, so she did not have a realistic notion of what she was in for, nor could she handle it at all.
    I think the problem lies with Lawrence. I don't think Lawrence was clear within himself on this story. What I think happened was that he intuitively would have liked Dollie to be transfigured, but his linking her with Brett (the person the character is based on) made him ambivilent and so he mixed it up somewhat. Plus I don't think Lawrence ever truely figured out how to make a character fail in an attempt for transfiguration. His great works all have characters reach a transfiguration or at least an epiphany. These stories like this I think fall short of being great. One should compare this story with "The Woman Who Rode Away" and see how Lawrence handles that woman's journey of events.

    You are starting to sound like me. It is a shame they didn't make this one into a production. It would have been real interesting I think.
    Anyway, I would agree with your assessment here.
    This story would make a great short film. It's so visual.

    Yes, that is excellent and a good observation on your part. I like that part about a "huge, intricate knot"...what an intriguing visual symbol. So true knots do symbolize infinity and mystery. Don't they also suggest the union of a man and woman? The Princess rejects that idea - she does not desire the true union or the transfiguration it would bring to her life. I think this knot could be viewed in many perspectives here.
    The knot is a fabulous symbol. Too bad Lawrence doesn't use it elsewhere, at least that I'm aware of. If you ever find Lawrenceusing the knot symbol somewhere, please point it out to me, I would be very interested. It's so good I may have to steal it one day.

    Hadn't noticed that 'kneeling' but I may have and forgotten it. That is good. So you do think she has a 'moment of transfiguration' when she lacks 'will'?
    This is where I think Lawrence fails. I don't think he wants her to have a transfiguration, but he needs to have her come close to one and retract. It's too fine a balance that i don't think Lawrence successfully caries off. just my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I do not know if I have much I can add to Virgil's comments. I was struck by how much bleaker the scene is starting to become now that she is going off alone to her fate with Romero. Compared to how it was before. It had started out as a rather pleasant trip winding through the canyon, but after the point of the accident of Miss Cummins, it is becoming much more ominous.
    Actually I had never picked that up before until I posted this section. I didn't realize the corpse and dying around them, even though i must have read this story ten times. It's amazing what we pick up while going through a story tis way.

    Haha, almost like in a horror story, when a family sets out on a trip together, and then their car breaks down, and everything goes bad from there.
    That's a fabulous analogy. You're right. One day Muse you have to read "The Woman Who Rode Away." Even more of a horror story. Almost something Poe could have written.

    It seems to be the sum of The Princess' relations with Romero. The way she felt after the first time they were together, when she at first consented to it. How she was not moved by the experience, and it left her without desire to experience it again, she was unfulfilled by it.
    Yes that is exactly right, and I think your word "unfulfilled" is the perfect word, the one I think Lawrence would have used.

    I loved this passage, and I think it does personify the Princess's actions to this point. Her going off with Romero, and her initial attraction or draw to him, had all been very reckless. She never really gave any forward thought to anything she did, but acted upon her initial whims and let them carry her.
    Lots of excellent passages. I liked that one too.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  14. #2609
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    That's a fabulous analogy. You're right. One day Muse you have to read "The Woman Who Rode Away." Even more of a horror story. Almost something Poe could have written.
    I will have to see if that one is within one of the volumes of stories I have

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    Lots of excellent passages. I liked that one too.
    Yes, there were so many wonderful and vivid passages, full of some really intersting words and discriptions, and all so symbolic of Romero and the Princess. This was a very well crafted story.

    I too did not pick up how much the physical enviroment reflected on the events within the story until reviewing it over.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  15. #2610
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    See just my point, in taking it slowly and dissecting a story - one notices so much more. I am just a hopeless story dissector!

    Will answer the rest tomorrow...too tired out now.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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