The Christian Hell

[Zee.]

There is no such thing as right or wrong, Rush, only perspective.

[Zee.]

Rush:

1) what is your standpoint on Christianity? what is the purpose of it?
The purpose of christianity? Does it not depend on the individual? like i said, i know plenty of christians who neither think they need saving or condemn others to hell for not following their beliefs ( even saying that sounds so unbelievably ridiculous - burning in hell? give me a break ) these people believe in being the best that they can be, to others and to themselves, and that's good enough for them. It is my belief that people turn to religion for answers, hope, reassurance - whatever they can't find within themselves. Because they THINK that they cant find such answers within themselves.

2) what do you define good and bad as?
And again, if i did say good and bad, i meant the term very loosely. And probably just as a comparison. The whole good and bad thing - i assume you're questioning me in relation to people, i used to make the point that if what today's society considers to be unnatural - and for a lack of a better word "bad", can pass through to heaven, why can't someone who has done little harm to others and doesn't believe in Jesus?

Like i said, i used the terms very loosely - and i dont think i need to explain that to you for you to understand that. Both you and I know that people are far too complex to put into "good" or "bad" categories. But, like i said, perspective.

3) what are Christians copping out of?
Copping out of?
What point of mine are you referencing with this question? once i know, i can answer it.

4) what exactly are you looking for?
Too broad.

[Zee.]

You know, what bothers me about this whole discussion, is how not only my questions are being ignored - but those who hold similar ideas to me.
I feel like many of you are skipping the most logical questions - and when you are answering them, well , it's barely an answer. It makes me think that you believe in something that you're not even quite sure of yourself.

I mean - no one has explained to me how innocent people who don't believe in jesus will burn in hell, makes any sense?
That is such an extremist view - and there clearly is that belief shown within the posts of many of you here.

[Delta40]

Ha Ha Thanks Atheist. I'm trying to believe in what you say but it just ain't working for me!

However, I'm doing really well sitting here with my popcorn, enjoying the show....

Limajean - there is a need for direct answers but it will NEVER HAPPEN HERE!!! It's like watching The Young & the Restless over 30 years. Is enlightenment gonna happen or isn't it? Today? tomorrow? Who knows? Stay tuned.....(lol) Popcorn anyone?

[Rush_of_Blood]

No, but it is another frequent flyer fallacy. One of the more naive ones, at that.

This is an argument from incredulity - because you believe morals cannot exist outside of a god's determination, you refuse to accept they exist at all.

Whether or not you agree with it, the thousands of studies into morality, altruistic behaviour and genetic success belie the fact that your answer is the only one. You might be right, but there are non-divine alternative views, and quite authoritative ones in many cases.



And this one, the proof is simply in the pudding. If there were any truth in the assertion, jails would be chock full of atheists and secular criminals. Unluckily for the premise, they aren't.

As it happens, what statistical analysis there is of criminals, especially violent ones, tend to skew towards the theist side. But hey, don't let reality stand in the way of a good story.



I'm taking note of what you say, but you haven't been controversial enough for me to reply to yet!



In the above post, I'll agree wholeheartedly with with all human systems being flawed. Nobody's perfect, so no system designed by/for humans can be.

Where would we derive morals, if not from God?

[Rush_of_Blood]

There is no such thing as right or wrong, Rush, only perspective.

If there is no such thing as right or wrong, how can you say God is wrong for condemning?

[Rush_of_Blood]

You know, what bothers me about this whole discussion, is how not only my questions are being ignored - but those who hold similar ideas to me.
I feel like many of you are skipping the most logical questions - and when you are answering them, well , it's barely an answer. It makes me think that you believe in something that you're not even quite sure of yourself.

I mean - no one has explained to me how innocent people who don't believe in jesus will burn in hell, makes any sense?
That is such an extremist view - and there clearly is that belief shown within the posts of many of you here.

Please give me a list of what you would like answered, and i will respond.

[Zee.]

I'm saying that if he were to condemn such people, it would contradict the whole foundation of that religion! and that, right there, is my problem with the Christian faith - it is so incredibly weak at the knees. It can't support itself because their is such conflicting ideas within it.

Love thy neighbour, don't judge, etc etc, all are God's children

yet, condemning to an eternity of burning because they will not accept him, is illogical and like i said, greatly contradicts the faith itself!

I'm sick of repeating myself. I have made that point over and over again.

[Zee.]

I don't want to write you a list because even you can not provide me with such answers.

Plus, it is your beliefs that are on the table, not mine, how can i ask questions to a bias source? i cant.

We can talk and talk and talk, but the extent of our knowledge, in this case, yours, is limited to that of a book.

[Rush_of_Blood]

I don't want to write you a list because even you can not provide me with such answers.

Plus, it is your beliefs that are on the table, not mine, how can i ask questions to a bias source? i cant.

We can talk and talk and talk, but the extent of our knowledge, in this case, yours, is limited to that of a book.

If i can not provide with answers, others can. If you are actually interested in answering this, here are some books and sites that you can go to:

"Evidence for Christianity" by Josh McDowell

http://www.redeemer.com/news_and_eve...e_of_hell.html

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceL...f_Hell_Part_1/

http://www.dbu.edu/jeanhumphreys/Dea...achinghell.htm


as for being bias, you are just as bias for your opinion. i would be happy to see what you think, you just haven't laid it out yet. i am pretty familiar with world religions. so please, lay out what you do believe so that i know where you are exactly coming from.


knowledge is also not limited to a book. knowledge is limited, but not to books.

[The Atheist]

Where would we derive morals, if not from God?

Nature. It's clear that behaviour which can be described as morality is hard-wired into animals. Even birds protect their young.

[Delta40]

That's instinctive and does not require decision. Birds and animals don't decide it is the 'right' thing to do. Mother's naturally secrete hormones which make them more aggressive when they give birth. Men actually secrete hormones that make them less aggressive.

[Rush_of_Blood]

Nature. It's clear that behavior which can be described as morality is hard-wired into animals. Even birds protect their young.

It seems like it's called a moral because it's good. Interesting.......therefore anything in nature is justified. It benefits, therefore it is moral.

So if the birds start attacking their young, does that make it all of a sudden moral to attack the young? maybe the mother never wanted offspring. is that moral?

[The Atheist]

That's instinctive and does not require decision. Birds and animals don't decide it is the 'right' thing to do. Mother's naturally secrete hormones which make them more aggressive when they give birth. Men actually secrete hormones that make them less aggressive.

Exactly!

Evolution at work creates a perfectly natural phenomenon. That we take it a stage further and call it morality is the human construct part, but it doesn't change the fact that the morality is still geared towards evolutionary success. Without rules, human society cannot flourish. If we all kill each other, it's not going to help humans survive as a species.

[Redzeppelin]

If there is no such thing as right or wrong, how can you say God is wrong for condemning?

Bravo - good question, my friend.