The Christian Hell

[NikolaiI]

Skasian, I thought your posts were wonderful and illumating. Thank you for sharing, and I agree with you on many points. I don't believe in Hell - I do believe in Hellish worlds, hellish conditions, hellish suffering, etc. But the hell worlds are not the same as Hell. But I wanted to say I agree that we are not enslaved to destiny. We may have a destiny, but I think... our free will is part of what decides it? Arguging that God is responsible for our sufferings, if he exists, although it is clear they are dependent on our actions, seems to me a silly reason not to think God exists. After all, no one likes it if someone says "God is responsible for my actions," so why would non-believers use the "God is responsible for my actions - or would be, if he existed" as an argument? Silly.

[Zee.]

I'm not too bothered by any kind of "proof" either, but I don't like fallacies of any kind being promoted. Your faith is your affair.

I bet that child in The Atheist's avatar has been through hell quite a few times...
But i suppose..if they dont believe in jesus they deserve to stay there and rot with the rest of us, right?

Ridiculous. That whole religion is flawed.

[NikolaiI]

I would like to point out that not all Christians believe in Hell.

Also, no, the child's suffering is not a good thing. But would you also blame the sun, for giving life? God created, and he is present. The child's suffering is because we are not taking care of our responsibilities on this planet. It is not a reason for or against God.

[skasian]

That's got to be about the biggest piece of bull**** i've ever read.

That right there - that's scare tactics. Fear.

Yes when us non believers die we all go to dance with the devil in hell for all of eternity forever and ever and ever.

See that belief, which not all christians hold is insanely flawed and does not make sense of much at all.

Maybe your hell is my heaven.

Do you know anything called respect? You are rude and you hold no sense of competence when dealing with manners.
You are not welcome to rebuke the faith of Christianity, and especially rebuking other people's belief. How would you feel if someone spat on you just for believing in something that others don’t. Its like saying your belief of Buddhism is fake and your incompetence in living in this world is worthless. Feel good? Look at yourself before commenting on other peoples faces. Is this what your mother taught you? Treat other people that have different views with dirt? I feel sincerely sorry for you if she did not.

Rather than speaking your disagreeing views in lame statements, why dont you submit yourself in a DISCUSSION on why you believe so. If you need to learn the skill of discussing in an argument, go back to school and learn so. It would be tremendously beneficial to you.
And what induced you to think that I have "all the answers" and "knowing everything as facts", look at the thread title darling, its called CHRISTIAN HELL where Christians can have share their belief in their own hell. I simply shared the view of Christian hell as a Christian. Don’t ever make such pathetic assumptions when you have no support.
It is disagreeable people like you that are causing the suffering of children in third world countries. Not God. Open your eyes and stop your adamant reluctance to accept other people's views that differ from you especially in religion.
I pray to God that He will forgive your previous thoughts in Christianity and that someday you will think over the mistakes you have caused.

[skasian]

Skasian, I thought your posts were wonderful and illumating. Thank you for sharing, and I agree with you on many points. I don't believe in Hell - I do believe in Hellish worlds, hellish conditions, hellish suffering, etc. But the hell worlds are not the same as Hell. But I wanted to say I agree that we are not enslaved to destiny. We may have a destiny, but I think... our free will is part of what decides it? Arguging that God is responsible for our sufferings, if he exists, although it is clear they are dependent on our actions, seems to me a silly reason not to think God exists. After all, no one likes it if someone says "God is responsible for my actions," so why would non-believers use the "God is responsible for my actions - or would be, if he existed" as an argument? Silly.

Thank you Nik for sharing your views in hell and for agreeing with my thoughts in how we may have a destiny but how God is not responsible for our actions. Your inputs are always precious.

[skasian]

Time is the problem.

Linear time as we experience it – that is, in our Christian case – first sin then punishment, only happens when space moves. If nothing moved there would be no time.

Since we now realize that God isn't sitting up in the clouds with the angels, our conception of God is that He exists outside the universe, in a godlike spiritual dimension. Not in space. Therefore not in time.

So when He creates somebody He already knows is doomed to eternal torment, He takes no responsibility for that?

Must be nice to be God. No responsibility and all.

Yes, we must be nice to God, as God is our Father, it is true that like our biological fathers, we must be nice to them in order to make them happy, and in result, they reciprocate us with more love and with great awards. The relationship between us and our biological fathers are very similar to our relationship with God.

[skasian]

You must really be an idealist if you thought that a thread called Christian Hell would not provoke discussions on belief.

No, I do not consider myself as an idealist and I never thought this thread will provoke a discussion on belief. Actually, I am against the idea. The only reason why I wanted andrew to make a thread dedicated for discussion on belief was that I didnt want him to make a discussion on it in this thread which was what he intended.

[curlyqlink]

I'm interested in the origins of the Christian Hell. It is very different from the pagan Hades, particularly so as a place of punishment for a life lived ill. I'm guessing Hell was borrowed from earlier mystical traditions. Was it first synthesized by Tertullian? Are there other, earlier literary sources?

[The Atheist]

I'm interested in the origins of the Christian Hell. It is very different from the pagan Hades, particularly so as a place of punishment for a life lived ill. I'm guessing Hell was borrowed from earlier mystical traditions. Was it first synthesized by Tertullian? Are there other, earlier literary sources?

You familiar with this?

The need to have Hell as a place of eternal punishment has always interested me, and it's probably what started me asking questions when I was about 8.

What does it say about the sects which use it and the people who fervently believe their god is the type of being who would punish someone eternally for as little as failing to believe in him/her/it?

It's always seemed to me that the whole concept is based on misanthropy and I see no reason to change that view. It explains why fundamental sects look to impose cult-inclusiveness on their congregations; to remove themselves from the rest of humanity to enable the misanthropy to work.

[The Atheist]

Do you know anything called respect? You are rude and you hold no sense of competence when dealing with manners.
You are not welcome to rebuke the faith of Christianity, and especially rebuking other people's belief. How would you feel if someone spat on you just for believing in something that others don’t.

I'd just like to add a couple of things here, foremost of which is that while the description of your post wasn't all that polite, he hasn't attacked your character, so maybe it's a little premature to start attacking his?

Anyway, enough said, because this is an interesting thread and it would be a shame for it to be closed.

I want to look at your comment about "spitting on people's beliefs".

You have your views on Hell, which you're most welcome to, but I want you to stop and think about something for a second.

So far, in this thread, you've made 23 posts - almost half the thread.

Here is a selection:

Hell is governed by satan and devils and they inflict abhorrent terrors unimaginable.

... if you do not confess Jesus as your God then you go to Hell. Harsh, but true.

In order to be saved from hell, theres only one way, and that is Jesus once again. Jesus is the bridge between our world and Heaven, and without Him, you may not enter Heaven.

Have faith in God, then life in eternal happiness with him.

It is our God that makes our hearts, minds and soul stronger than any being in the world.

Christians, as this thread is dedicated to the Christians belief in Hell, believe that Jesus is the only way for salvation.

I have never made an assumption as for all Christians, it is the naked truth and the only truth we all need to have in this world.

If you do not accept any god as your savior, then you are still classified as an atheist.

I am not advocating or preaching Christianity, as I am providing the Christian view on hell.

Of course Jesus is not Christian, he is not a little of himself is he? He is the Son of God, a Healer, a Savour.

Kingdom of God holds perfection, and it always will.

The bible is indeed contains the Word of God and the truth He brings to our world.

That tends to create a sense of irony when added to this:

I am not advocating or preaching Christianity, as I am providing the Christian view on hell.

I'd just like to sit back for a few minutes and ask yourself what you are really doing. Evangelising is all very well, but your posts seems to be more like someone desperately needing confirmation. We know and understand your beliefs, so I'm a bit confused as to why you keep repeating them.

Also, you possibly need to understand that the constant chant of "believe in god or go to hell" can be irritating. It doesn't bother me, because I'm pretty thick-skinned, but try turning the other cheek, as it were, and consider how you'd feel if someone stoood constantly shouting at you, "You don't believe in the Great, Green Arkleseizure, you will spend the rest of eternity as a handkerchief, bwahaha!" Some people see that every bit as bad as spitting.

I trust you take this in the manner which I offer it - just a polite chat between two Kiwis.

[Zee.]

Do you know anything called respect? You are rude and you hold no sense of competence when dealing with manners.
You are not welcome to rebuke the faith of Christianity, and especially rebuking other people's belief. How would you feel if someone spat on you just for believing in something that others don’t. Its like saying your belief of Buddhism is fake and your incompetence in living in this world is worthless. Feel good? Look at yourself before commenting on other peoples faces. Is this what your mother taught you? Treat other people that have different views with dirt? I feel sincerely sorry for you if she did not.

Rather than speaking your disagreeing views in lame statements, why dont you submit yourself in a DISCUSSION on why you believe so. If you need to learn the skill of discussing in an argument, go back to school and learn so. It would be tremendously beneficial to you.
And what induced you to think that I have "all the answers" and "knowing everything as facts", look at the thread title darling, its called CHRISTIAN HELL where Christians can have share their belief in their own hell. I simply shared the view of Christian hell as a Christian. Don’t ever make such pathetic assumptions when you have no support.
It is disagreeable people like you that are causing the suffering of children in third world countries. Not God. Open your eyes and stop your adamant reluctance to accept other people's views that differ from you especially in religion.
I pray to God that He will forgive your previous thoughts in Christianity and that someday you will think over the mistakes you have caused.

See, now you're missing my point. If you worshipped flying seahorses, i wouldn't care. But i do start caring when you're telling people on this board that if they don't believe in Jesus Christ, they're going to hell.

So don't you dare try to tell me i'm the one without respect. I don't need you to pray for me. See that's the thing about so many of you extreme christians, you think everyone else in the world needs saving. I know of no other religion like yours, it is so unaccepting of other people's faith and condemns them to hell for not accepting it, and that is absolutely ridiculous.
I don't accept Jesus Christ, never will, my beliefs don't allow me too - so when you're telling me i'm going to hell for that, who then is the one spitting on someone else's beliefs?
I think that might be you.

Also i don't see you willing to talk about other people's beliefs - from what i can see, you seem pretty intent on shoving jesus down our throats.

[Rush_of_Blood]

Yes. Can you explain happy are the ignorant for they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven - doesn't this mean those that do not know about God shall be saved? I y the premise in order to believe you have to understand (SO NARROW MINDED) so these discussions piss me off actually but I ally clicked on the wrong post and accepted it as FATE!!! LOL

I believe you are quoting the sermon on the mount, but your quote from it is not anywhere in there. Here's the whole thing. Which one of these did you mean?

Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, and he began to teach them saying:
"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

[Maletbon]

Do you know anything called respect?

Skasian, you hold a belief that means everyone who disagrees with you burns in Hell for all eternity. And you blame others for not respecting you?

What happens when a fundamentalist-type or Christian person who goes strictly by scriptures disagrees with me? At worst, I insult his grandmaw.

What happens when I disagree with him? Oh, I just spend eternity with my eyeballs boiling in their sockets, my internal organs sizzling furiously in their own superheated blood, every single one of my long-gone nerve cells afire with the most hellish pain available, driven straight into me by my Creator forever and ever and ever, to no end, ever. Ever. Never ever. No end. It just keeps going. Never stops. Ever. Just goes and goes, but nobody knows why. Why? We don't know. Vengence, the book says, just like teenagers and really stupid people like. But it can't be that, that would be too silly. For it just goes and goes. More pain. For ever and ever more and more and never and never stop. Like this except ten bajillion times worse. Even worse than this. Forever. I mean ever. It doesn't stop. Never! And then it keeps going. And going. Wish there was a better word than etcetera....

I know I'm just a dumb ol' non-believer and all, and if I had a lick of sense I'd agree with you, but that just don't seem fair to me, or in any way respectful.

Seems more like cheating to me, since those ideas don't come from you but are from a book, or from what someone told you, or are a feeling you have. So you have no responsibility at all for what you believe. How godlike of you. I'm all for feelings and inner spiritual convictions, but it strikes me as weird when other people have to suffer for them.

I read the King James Edition cover-to-cover and didn't get very inspired by it at all. Bored, mostly. Call me strange, or damned, but I like spiritual writing that isn't about punishment and vengeance, but about love and forgiveness.

You have a Savior, but I ask why? What are we supposed to be saved from? From being human? Being stupid and bad more often than we should be? If God made us like this and expected us to act like more than darn fools most of the time, He's dumber than I think. Fella like that must have got lucky on this universe, what with gravity and all.

God is love. And that is that. We are already forgiven. I almost even forgive myself. Maybe someday. And I do forgive you, Skasian. I know you are a soul of Love, with all the best intentions, who had no idea how hurtful her creed was to others. You didn't realize when you entitled this thread Christian Hell, that you were making one for yourself. Oops. Don't blame us, you started it, believe it or not. Sometimes it is your responsibility, alas.

Please don't post any quotes from some book as a response, thanks. I would much rather hear you speak from your heart and mind, even if it is only anger.

[Delta40]

Lol Thanks Rush of Blood. I'm terrible at holding forth on these discussions. I figure nobody on this thread will have a definitive answer before their death, no matter the view. It is nice to get an insight of how other people feel and also how they communciate.

[Zee.]

You know - it seems to me that if all we need to do is accept what's written in a bible to score a ticket in to heaven, it's a little a bit of a cop out..

It's like believing that someone who has murdered, raped, and done terrible things deserves a place in heaven if they "just believe" whereas a good person, someone who has yeah, made mistakes - probably made some huge ones, but all in all has been a decent HUMAN being will burn in hell if they don't accept Jesus.

That is not only so morally backwards but, simply stupid. And i highly doubt a God that could create such beauty and mystery in our world, could be so stupid and cruel.