Revenge: good or bad?

[Dark Muse]

Your last quote "Because there is no way to ultimately declare which side is right and which side is wrong. It is subjective" also supports the fact that you do believe that revenge cannot be ultimately declared wrong.

Yes I thought I made myself quite clear that in my mind revenge in itself cannot be declared as wrong. That does not mean I support people who take it to the extrme, but the idea of revenge, and the act of getting revenge, I do not see as wrong.

In religion, people are prepared to do anything that is right in their religion therefore promote goodness in the world. In order to do this, they may indeed afflict harm to another. But it is for good reasons, prevent evil from overcoming the good.

So in your mind, it is ok to harm another person for thinking differently then you, for worshiping differently then you, and holding a different set of values, because it is "for a greater good" Religion has perpetrated some of the worst crimes against humanity, but that is justifiable, because they were acting in the name of God, and believed that they were killing and torturing others for good.

But it is wrong to retaliate against person who has actively and willfully done something to hurt you.

So you are not against revenge because you have moral qualms against hurting other people you just do not agree with the motive of revenge, but in certain circumstances you think it is justifiable to hurt another person.

By your logic, if someone rapes your mother, it would be wrong to kill them, but if your neighbors happen to be Hindu, it would be justifiable to burn their house down, if you happen to believe that their religion is evil.

[Mr. Vandemar]

Religion has perpetrated some of the worst crimes against humanity, but that is justifiable, because they were acting in the name of God, and believed that they were killing and torturing others for good.

If it is not okay for the Christian to attack the Muslim for "stealing" his homeland (Jerusalem), then why is it okay for you to passive-aggressively demonstrate your "wrath" on those that you think have harmed you? You are a hypocrite.

Revenge is the excuse for these horrible crimes that you speak of. Nobody ever says "let's attack the Jew because he's different", they always list ways (false or true) in which the Jew has hurt us. Revenge blinds people and leads to further conflict. Now that you've attacked the Jew, he has a reason for hurting you. Don't you see this endless cycle? Ever heard of the crimes of Atreus? Agamemnon?

[Dark Muse]

There is a difference between some sort of generalized revenge, and a direct retaliation for something that was done personally to you.

slaughtering an entire race, because of something that happened once upon a time ago, before you yourself was even born, is not the same, striking someone because they struck you first.

And wars started over religion, are never just about "revenge" there is always some other gain to be had from it, some political, or finical advantage. It is more about gaining power, then simply just wanting to avenge yourself because you feel wronged.

[Mr. Vandemar]

And wars started over religion, are never just about "revenge" there is always some other gain to be had from it, some political, or finical advantage. It is more about gaining power, then simply just wanting to avenge yourself because you feel wronged.

Tell that to the Israelis and the Palestinians. They feel that their homeland has been taken.

The state uses the war as a tool to gain power, yes you are right. But the soldier and the citizen support it because they support this notion of revenge. This leads to delusion and allows the state to further blind these people and use them (to gain more power from the other state).

[Dark Muse]

There is a difference between using the idea of revenge as a mask for alterior motives and comitting an act of revenge for revenge's sake.

The state uses the war as a tool to gain power, yes you are right. But the soldier and the citizen support it because they support this notion of revenge. This leads to delusion and allows the state to further blind these people and use them (to gain more power from the other state).

The exzact same thing can be said about religion. Religion is used in very much the same way. For the corrupt to blind the poeple with something they feel passionate about in order to futher thier own power and ambitions.

[Mr. Vandemar]

Yes, but instead of enlightenment or spiritual awakening, revenge leads to nothing.

[skasian]

Yes I thought I made myself quite clear that in my mind revenge in itself cannot be declared as wrong. That does not mean I support people who take it to the extrme, but the idea of revenge, and the act of getting revenge, I do not see as wrong.



So in your mind, it is ok to harm another person for thinking differently then you, for worshiping differently then you, and holding a different set of values, because it is "for a greater good" Religion has perpetrated some of the worst crimes against humanity, but that is justifiable, because they were acting in the name of God, and believed that they were killing and torturing others for good.

But it is wrong to retaliate against person who has actively and willfully done something to hurt you.

So you are not against revenge because you have moral qualms against hurting other people you just do not agree with the motive of revenge, but in certain circumstances you think it is justifiable to hurt another person.

By your logic, if someone rapes your mother, it would be wrong to kill them, but if your neighbors happen to be Hindu, it would be justifiable to burn their house down, if you happen to believe that their religion is evil.

I cannot believe that you just contradicted yourself so obviously!
"But it is wrong to retaliate against person who has actively and willfully done something to hurt you." This is, my friend, the definition of revenge. You said it yourself. Revenge is indeed wrong.

It seems that you have the wrong knowledge of religion, you have gone off in a complete opposite tangent from the truth. Being a Christian, I am advised to commit conflict in minimum amount as much as possible. No matter how the other religion contrasts from Christianity, it is against the Will of God to harm them just because of their non belief in Christianity. Mankind, regardless a Christian or not, are all children of God and God cherishes every single of us with unconditional love. The last thing that God wants to do is hurt us. But it is evident that in the Bible that God did eliminate many people. But that was God, not us. In closer past, there have been ongoing disturbance in civilisation such as the fight between Protestants and Catholics. They argued which of them was the more holy religion and fought to death. This was against God's Will, and it was mankind that was wrong, not religion itself. Therefore you are having the wrong idea about religion and its morality. I believe that most religion promote the idea that injuring an opposition in any way is wrong and therefore promote revenge is bad and should be avoided.

[0=2]

Nothing is only made in context to space and what your moral compass allows for.

Does it lead to an actual nothing, or is this place a blank spot you'd prefer better not to dwell in? Notice, there is a difference, and assuming the doorway itself is or isn't the door can be quite dangerous for those attempting to walk through it.

The nothing is imposed.

[Dark Muse]

I cannot believe that you just contradicted yourself so obviously!
"But it is wrong to retaliate against person who has actively and willfully done something to hurt you." This is, my friend, the definition of revenge. You said it yourself. Revenge is indeed wrong.

You misunderstood me. I was not stating that as my own personal beleif, sorry if I was unclear, but comparing your thoughts on revenge to your satatment that people who harm others in the name of religion are doing so for good, while those that are getting revenge is bad.

I was speaking of your own viewpoint on the subject, but not cliaming it as my own view.

[skasian]

You misunderstood me. I was not stating that as my own personal beleif, sorry if I was unclear, but comparing your thoughts on revenge to your satatment that people who harm others in the name of religion are doing so for good, while those that are getting revenge is bad.

I was speaking of your own viewpoint on the subject, but not cliaming it as my own view.

Nevertheless, your statement is indeed correct. I hope that your misunderstanding in religion is changed, and that it cannot be compared in the same line as revenge. Mankind acting evil in the name of religion is wrong whereas religion is not. Religion opposes revenge and defines it as evil.

[blazeofglory]

Nevertheless, your statement is indeed correct. I hope that your misunderstanding in religion is changed, and that it cannot be compared in the same line as revenge. Mankind acting evil in the name of religion is wrong whereas religion is not. Religion opposes revenge and defines it as evil.

Followers of a particular faith at times succumb to acts of violence and as today people fight for idealism.

[skasian]

Followers of a particular faith at times succumb to acts of violence and as today people fight for idealism.

Religion promotes the sense of morality, sense of right and wrong. As religion promotes that revenge is a branch of violence, advocates that it is wrong.

[0=2]

Right and wrong solidifying our... sense of self formed in... opposition to other which makes... agreement impossible because... the world view of one simply does not permit?

Religion, or rather monotheism, is simply too easy to debunk. There are very few Christians who really understand hteir own religion, and those who do usually belong to Gnostic sects and worry themselves not with PROVING the righteousness of their religion. Most that I have conversed with are in understanding and agreement that religion does not automatical install a benevolent demeanor into the believer, nor does it redeem, and nor has it always acted as "just".

In fact it is only the Gnostics and hardcore Orthodox ministers that seem to understand and even accept my absolute disdain for their faith.

As always, the enlightened few lead, and the rest waddle behind, arguing totemic responses and knee jerk quips as if it were essence. Or absolute.

[Infinitefox]

I haven't read the whole thread, but here's my opinion:

A couple years ago, when I had just turned fourteen, this girl sorta wronged me. It wasn't some terrible thing that would take a very evil person to do, it was just something that girls do. So, anyways, I was very stupid and immature at the time, and my stupidity and immaturity led me to really try to mess up her life. I harassed her, called her with blocked numbers, tried to break up her and her boyfriend(I think I played a part in that happening, because they did break up), and harassed her friends.

My actions caused her to be afraid. At the time I just thought, "Oh well, she brought it on herself!", and I didn't think that what I was doing was wrong. I had fun doing it. But after I did it, I realized how wrong it was, and I confessed to her that it was me.

My point is, revenge might seem like the best course of action, but all it does is breed evil in yourself, and you might regret what you do out of revenge.

It's hard, very hard, for me to practice what I preach. I try not to think vengeful thoughts, but I do. After you fulfill your idea of revenge, it doesn't make you feel good. There's nothing there. No pot of gold at the end of your quest for revenge, just emptiness, and you realize your time was wasted.

[skasian]

I haven't read the whole thread, but here's my opinion:

A couple years ago, when I had just turned fourteen, this girl sorta wronged me. It wasn't some terrible thing that would take a very evil person to do, it was just something that girls do. So, anyways, I was very stupid and immature at the time, and my stupidity and immaturity led me to really try to mess up her life. I harassed her, called her with blocked numbers, tried to break up her and her boyfriend(I think I played a part in that happening, because they did break up), and harassed her friends.

My actions caused her to be afraid. At the time I just thought, "Oh well, she brought it on herself!", and I didn't think that what I was doing was wrong. I had fun doing it. But after I did it, I realized how wrong it was, and I confessed to her that it was me.

My point is, revenge might seem like the best course of action, but all it does is breed evil in yourself, and you might regret what you do out of revenge.

It's hard, very hard, for me to practice what I preach. I try not to think vengeful thoughts, but I do. After you fulfill your idea of revenge, it doesn't make you feel good. There's nothing there. No pot of gold at the end of your quest for revenge, just emptiness, and you realize your time was wasted.

I agree. May I ask what is that you preach?