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Thread: D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

  1. #2536
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    Ok Janine, your second post.
    Thanks, Virgil, I really appreciate you taking the time to address what I wrote. I am learning more about the story paragraph by paragraph - now the whole thing makes more sense to me. Last night I read a chapter in this book I bought about Lawrence called "The Minoan Distance"; apparently Lawrence wrote a poem late in is life, using that word phrase. The book is written from the point of view of Lawrence in relation to the idea of 'place'. I think this story is a very good example of that. One could go up into the mountains mentally (or even physically), as surely Lawrence did in both senses. One could revisit this area of NM which inspired this story and perhaps feel the power of nature and the mountains. The 'place' in this story is a vital to the story - a character in it's own right - 'nature' and people can embrass this place and the natural world and be as one. Romero is intune with the place - with nature; he is one with nature....the Princess longs for that connection, but she cannot get intune with it...in essense she cannot get intune with her own self; her own womanhood; not the true connection to another human being - a man on the level of intimacy. Also, interesting in this book that I am reading, is that the author points out the descrepancies and conflicts, within Lawrence himself and his writing...even the comflicts of male and female - gender conflicts within Lawrence himself. This makes perfect sense to me because here he even describes Romera as tender or delicate and elegant - almost woman-like in aspect. It is not till later that Romero shows a more aggressive manly side and this further frightens the Princess and makes her retreat within herself.

    That is a rather strange statement. I don't know if I would agree that he's impossible for her; actually it says "possible." It suggests a attraction toward death
    .

    I will look for the exact line quote but I believe she did say "impossible" at one part of the text. I can't look now, I have to go out today and will not have the time; I will find it tonight. Yes, it does suggest a spiritual death and a rebirth - The Princess cannot embrass this. She is repelled by it. She maintains her power. Romero wants the ultimate power as do many of Lawrence's male characters. But there is a good reason for this and I am seeing it more clearly from this new book I am reading on L. Truly, it was first born from his parental problems - mother/father....Lawrence was a very mixed up man and as I said before he did waver often.

    Haha, it's no accident her horse is a mare. That's one of those shots that Lawrence takes at women. You see why the feminists hate him.
    I would imagine it is totally intensional that it is a mare and female. Females always do figure more prominently in Lawrence's work. In the story I just read about Australia, I believe the protagonist also has a mare - you see in this way the man can master the female; but actually, this is not to say the male is secure in his maleness in all ways - a mastering of the female may actually be a way of Lawrence (who felt deficient in sexual ways or genders), to live throught his stories as lord and master. The feminists don't really see this or understand Lawrence - the whole thing goes way deeper and is much more complex. I guess the more I know and understand about him the more forgiving I am about this whole gender thing.

    Quite right. I wonder why I never noticed that. What exactly is a transfiguring smile? Yes he would normally be the means for her transfiguration.
    Exactly....at anyrate it does prefigure the events to come.

    You're right about that phrase. Second time it comes up. Good observation. I think it's to suggest the sub conscious talking that is going on between the two. That dark beam is to suggest phallic power, and it's "thrilling" for her.
    Yes, I totally agree....and the dark beam as well. Those appear in his later writings athough the church spires dominate his early works and one sees where that will lead.

    Dark flame, dark beam, it's his symbol for phallic power, and with flame he adds the suggestion of life itself, the flame of life, and the rising phoenix that Lawrence so identifies with.
    Very good. I like you whole explanation here. Yes, the phoenix does play into this idea.

    That's quite obvious the sub conscious communication that is going on.
    Yes it is.

    idée fixe is actually a musical term I think started by the French composer Berlioz. It's a recurring motif that is to suggest an obssession or neurosis. Here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-b...pl?Aug.22.2008. She has this fixed obssesion for marriage. But notice it's in "her strange little brain," which is a way of saying it's like a childish notion of hers.
    I didn't have time to look that up online, but will if I find the time. I was super busy last night, catching up with emails, etc. However, I get the idea from what you wrote and that makes sense enough for me....in fact that fits perfectly. Thanks for the definition. Now that line makes more sense.

    Good point, she has this fixed obsession for marriage and yet it is a childish notion, the way she sees marriage....yep, in "her strange little brain." I like that phrase - sounds like something Lawrence would blurt out, doesn it? haha...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    Well I have liked this one better then the previous ones we have read thus far. Not that I did not like the others, but this one just sticks out more to me.
    Dark Muse, you said that same thing about a couple other ones, way back; but maybe it is the fact that whatever we come up with is even better than the story before...This is a later story so maybe you would like his later work better. Some people prefer his earlier work, but actually I like both.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  2. #2537
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    I do not recall saying that. I may have said I liked this story better then that story. But before I had not declared any to be particular favorites.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  3. #2538
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    You're third post. Will I ever catch up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    This inevitable separation for the two now really spurs them on..actually she is doing the pursuing whether she know it consciously or subconsciously…she is luring him, like one does when fishing….
    I agree there is a subconscious luring and pursuing going on. I think the separation is just a trun to the narrative to push the events further. I don't think there is any thematic reason for it.

    “ The won’t let you come close” - that is interesting since she won’t let him come close later on.
    Very interesting. It also plays off the "distance" motif you found. I do think there is something Lawrence is suggesting with the notion of distance, the distance between Romero and Dollie and the distance between the wild animals and Dollie.

    Wow, do you notice this subtle power play going on between them? It is almost like one could interpret it like this. Lots of hidden meanings here and subtext.
    Yes, and the "naive impulse of recklessness" is what the whole story is based on. With that, the events would never have taken place.

    Well, what do you want? (now that is a loaded question)… wait till they come….(wait till he comes to her? Hummm…..)
    Yes, that is definitely loaded. I didn't notice that.

    She says with no hesitation “Yes” (now how would most guys take that?…again very suggestive…) …goes onto say…. “With sudden naïve impulse of recklessness”…so the fact, that Lawrence adds the word ‘naïve‘, does that mean Lawrence paints a picture of her as truly naïve or just pretending to be?
    I think she's truly naive. Don't forget the notion of rape has changed over the years. Men used to blame the woman for rape. I think Lawrence is doing that. She naively doesn't realize what her actions are causing in Romero.

    He is pre-warning her of the cold and the need of a house or shelter. But even this does not deter her.
    More important I think is that he's facing the reality of nature - its brutal aspect - while she's romanticizing it.

    I find this curious also “his black eyes were focussed on the distance, his face impassive, but as if in pain--” - so ‘in pain’…does he then sense his death in the mountains if he takes her there? It is certainly foreshadowing.
    I think there is tuly something to the theme of distance that you pointed out. It's here again. I should read the story again looking for all the distance references. But it's too long a story. Some other time.
    “red like gore” - wow, what a way to say that…kind of gothic and dark, gore, blood…what a sense of foreshadowing in that statement. I love this whole description - the massive, heavy-sitting , beautiful bulk of the Rocky Mountains….a lot of power in those words and that phrase - also sort of menacing. The aspens were already losing their gold leaves - even that seems forboding and winter like - one thinks of bare branches and death. A brilliant description….so telling…
    The massive heavy rock becomes significant when she's faced with the potentially transfiguring moment. We'll get to that.

    So that first statement is the what is central to it and her persistence. “Obstiniacy” pretty much spells it out and Lawrence goes as far as using the word ‘madeness’….which he points out had “taken hold of her.” So her thinking is far from logical or even sane. She is letting her fascination rule her being and not thinking of what consequences there might be in the end or on top of the mountains. It is all romantic to her and she does not look on it realistically at all. Words to describe what she seeks, like the mountain’s “secret heart” make this notion even more clear - all romantic and unreal….”tarn of green water” sounds fairy-like, doesn’t it? Seeing the animals in their “wild unconsciousness”…yet she is in a sort of unconscious state herself ….a sort of dream-state….“A Midsummer Night’s Dream” - fairy-like…
    Obstinency is will, and Lawrence does not like will, especially in women. I know this is philosophical, but will for him blocks one from the religious transfiguring moment. Remember his ideal state is a flower, lacking will and just being. Will exerts a consciousness, which is what a flower doesn't do.

    He is even pre-warning he that Miss Cummins might not hold up. He says it is a hard trip. Romero all the time is being quite honest with the Princess. In a way she is baiting him and playing him for all he is worth. I am starting to see Romero quite differently now that I am looking at the individual text and seeing so much more in it. I sort of feel for him now. He is trying to warn her of the danger and she is determined.
    Not question that Lawrence's sympathies are with Romero.

    She really begins to have the upper hand here, she takes the reigns and makes the final decision - it is now in her hands, not his. He tried to dissuade her, but she is on a mission now and can’t be stopped at this point…she lords the power over him now, and he conceeds. He finally gives into her…much like her father probably did.
    That is an interesting comparison. I think there are elements of her father in Romero and I think there are elements of her father in herself.

    Power - she really likes this bit of power over Romero. She is one determined woman at this point and doesn’t treat him very amicably - she feels piqued and is sort of irritated towards him. She is really like a spoiled brat used to getting her own way - obviously, her father did so, with her and she learned to be that way and get what she wanted.
    A willful woman. Oh how Lawrence hates that.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  4. #2539
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Thanks Virgil - good comments and post. I will answer it later on. Have to go start wash and get my dinner....just leftovers - easy.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    You're third post. Will I ever catch up?
    Hopefully, you are doing so good here; I think this is the last one and then you can post more text.

    I agree there is a subconscious luring and pursuing going on. I think the separation is just a trun to the narrative to push the events further. I don't think there is any thematic reason for it.
    You mean when Romero takes Miss Cummins back down the mountainside - is that the separation you speak of?

    Very interesting. It also plays off the "distance" motif you found. I do think there is something Lawrence is suggesting with the notion of distance, the distance between Romero and Dollie and the distance between the wild animals and Dollie.
    Yes, strange I should start reading that book; I have had it for year or so now. It is good so far and approaches L's work from a different perspective. distance is an interesting motif....yes, how true the distance between the individuals and the distance up the mountainside....and the distance between Dollie and the wild animal world she longs to encounter or experienced. Didn't she point out that 'Romero could see he over the distance' or was the word across or to the other side?...something like that....

    Yes, and the "naive impulse of recklessness" is what the whole story is based on. With that, the events would never have taken place.
    I am still not totally convinced of her naivity. First off, didn't she read novels that explored sex and just look on them sort of benignly? I thought it said she was aware from the novels she read. I will have to refer back and check that part. Surely she knew the potennial a man could have for desire. I don't know if Dollie was totally naive.

    Yes, that is definitely loaded. I didn't notice that.
    Yes, it is very suggestive.

    I think she's truly naive. Don't forget the notion of rape has changed over the years. Men used to blame the woman for rape. I think Lawrence is doing that. She naively doesn't realize what her actions are causing in Romero.
    Yes, true.... but was it rape, at first? I didn't see it as that exactly. I saw her going along with him one night, then rejecting him after - following that and the deflation of his male ego then blantant rape did take place. He held all the power over her, at that point but not really - only physically. At that time, she just made herself (emotionally) impervious to his actions and the rapes. Oh, I think she realises what her flirting or her double meanings could lead to. Woman can flirt with their eyes and gestures and it can be subtle. I think she was egging him on from the start of this mountain trip. She was glad Miss Cummins had to go back and leave them alone. If she wasn't driven to be alone with him she also would have retreated at that moment. I don't think she was as naive as you say she was.

    More important I think is that he's facing the reality of nature - its brutal aspect - while she's romanticizing it.
    True. I believe I agree.

    I think there is truly something to the theme of distance that you pointed out. It's here again. I should read the story again looking for all the distance references. But it's too long a story. Some other time.
    I should do that also. I read the story already twice but I will take a peek at it and see if 'distance' stands out to me. I will also look up the year he wrote that poem with the words in the line '...Minoan distance'...maybe they coincide someway.

    The massive heavy rock becomes significant when she's faced with the potentially transfiguring moment. We'll get to that.
    Yes, I would imagine that would be very significant.

    Obstinency is will, and Lawrence does not like will, especially in women. I know this is philosophical, but will for him blocks one from the religious transfiguring moment. Remember his ideal state is a flower, lacking will and just being. Will exerts a consciousness, which is what a flower doesn't do.
    I agree...you stated that well and accurately, I believe.

    No question that Lawrence's sympathies are with Romero.
    Yes, I felt it, too.

    That is an interesting comparison. I think there are elements of her father in Romero and I think there are elements of her father in herself.
    In one of my reference books the author mentions the story and the connection of the father to Romero. I think that is highly significant. Yes, she also has elements of her father, as well as Romero.

    A willful woman. Oh how Lawrence hates that.
    Haha - Lawrence would hate me. I can be a willful woman sometimes...haha.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  6. #2541
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    I'm a little over half way through the story, now. The beginning was quite interesting, but I'm not sure where they're going with this whole New Mexico--mountain expedition thing. I'll keep reading. Thankfully, I'm not too far behind the discussion. It seems like I've already past the last part of the story posted. Once I finish, I'll join the conversation.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  7. #2542
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Finished.

    Let me start with this point:
    I am still not totally convinced of her naivity.
    Yeah, naive seems like the wrong word. She appears to be cognizant of her situation and what Romero represents, but she willfully represses that knowledge. If she wasn't aware, she couldn't be so manipulative throghout the expedition. The ending wouldn't make sense, either. We get the sense that she lost something at the end. She's is never quite the same after that. If she never had the sexuality, vitality, or whatever, she wouldn't change after this experience. More likely, she has all this, but pushes it away and projects it onto some strange Mexican guy who she can treat apprehensively as some "other."
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  8. #2543
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Finished.

    Let me start with this point:


    Yeah, naive seems like the wrong word. She appears to be cognizant of her situation and what Romero represents, but she willfully represses that knowledge. If she wasn't aware, she couldn't be so manipulative throghout the expedition. The ending wouldn't make sense, either. We get the sense that she lost something at the end. She's is never quite the same after that. If she never had the sexuality, vitality, or whatever, she wouldn't change after this experience. More likely, she has all this, but pushes it away and projects it onto some strange Mexican guy who she can treat apprehensively as some "other."
    Glad to see you here, Quark. What you wrote her is exactly my own sentiments. I don't think she is truly naive. She acts childish, but that does not always go hand in hand with being naive. I like the other points you brought out.

    I am going through a family crisis today, so I won't be on much. But post more comments, and I will try to read them when I can. I am sure Virgil will respond tonight as well, maybe Dark Muse...where did she run off to anyway...probably knee-deep in Poe.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  9. #2544
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    I hate to disagree with you guys, but I do think she is naive. She has a fixed thought of goinng to the mountains to see the wild animals, but does she realize she will have to spend the night with a man. This is not the year 2008, where even if two people of the opposite sex agree to be platonic, can just go off together. This is prior to the sexual revolution and such a situation implies some sort of sexual possibility, and yet it doesn't even enter into calculation. No she really wants to go to see the wild animals and that in itself is a naivete.

    I'll post some more tonight. I could not believe I was able to get into lit net at work today.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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    Could someone please let me know when you all begin the next story, or what story is being discussed now. I could wade through all the posts, but I can't swim....
    J.H.S.

  11. #2546
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortstoryfan View Post
    Could someone please let me know when you all begin the next story, or what story is being discussed now. I could wade through all the posts, but I can't swim....
    Absolutely shortstory. We're in the middle of this rather long story. Probably by mid to the end of January. I fyou wish you culd catch up with this one. The electronic version is here: http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks04/0400311h.html#s12. You probably only need to read a few pages of this thread back on this story.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  12. #2547
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Ok, the next section.

    He knew that if he started with the pack on Sunday at dawn he would not be back until late at night. But he consented that they should start on Monday morning at seven. The obedient Miss Cummins was told to prepare for the Frijoles trip. On Sunday Romero had his day off. He had not put in an appearance when the Princess retired on Sunday night, but on Monday morning, as she was dressing, she saw him bringing in the three horses from the corral. She was in high spirits.

    The night had been cold. There was ice at the edges of the irrigation ditch, and the chipmunks crawled into the sun and lay with wide, dumb, anxious eyes, almost too numb to run.

    "We may be away two or three days," said the Princess.

    "Very well. We won't begin to be anxious about you before Thursday, then," said Mrs. Wilkieson, who was young and capable: from Chicago. "Anyway," she added, "Romero will see you through. He's so trustworthy."

    The sun was already on the desert as they set off towards the mountains, making the greasewood and the sage pale as pale-grey sands, luminous the great level around them. To the right glinted the shadows of the adobe pueblo, flat and almost invisible on the plain, earth of its earth. Behind lay the ranch and the tufts of tall, plumy cottonwoods, whose summits were yellowing under the perfect blue sky.

    Autumn breaking into colour in the great spaces of the South-West.

    But the three trotted gently along the trail, towards the sun that sparkled yellow just above the dark bulk of the ponderous mountains. Side-slopes were already gleaming yellow, flaming with a second light, under coldish blue of the pale sky. The front slopes were in shadow, with submerged lustre of red oak scrub and dull-gold aspens, blue-black pines and grey-blue rock. While the canyon was full of a deep blueness.

    They rode single file, Romero first, on a black horse. Himself in black, made a flickering black spot in the delicate pallor of the great landscape, where even pine trees at a distance take a film of blue paler than their green. Romero rode on in silence past the tufts of furry greasewood. The Princess came next, on her sorrel mare. And Miss Cummins, who was not quite happy on horseback, came last, in the pale dust that the others kicked up. Sometimes her horse sneezed, and she started.

    But on they went at a gentle trot. Romero never looked round. He could hear the sound of the hoofs following, and that was all he wanted.

    For the rest, he held ahead. And the Princess, with that black, unheeding figure always travelling away from her, felt strangely helpless, withal elated.

    They neared the pale, round foot-hills, dotted with the round dark piñon and cedar shrubs. The horses clinked and trotted among the stones. Occasionally a big round greasewood held out fleecy tufts of flowers, pure gold. They wound into blue shadow, then up a steep stony slope, with the world lying pallid away behind and below. Then they dropped into the shadow of the San Cristobal canyon.

    The stream was running full and swift. Occasionally the horses snatched at a tuft of grass. The trail narrowed and became rocky; the rocks closed in; it was dark and cool as the horses climbed and climbed upwards, and the tree trunks crowded in the shadowy, silent tightness of the canyon. They were among cottonwood trees that ran straight up and smooth and round to an extraordinary height. Above, the tips were gold, and it was sun. But away below, where the horses struggled up the rocks and wound among the trunks, there was still blue shadow by the sound of waters and an occasional grey festoon of old man's beard, and here and there a pale, dripping crane's-bill flower among the tangle and the débris of the virgin place. And again the chill entered the Princess's heart as she realised what a tangle of decay and despair lay in the virgin forests.

    They scrambled downwards, splashed across stream, up rocks and along the trail of the other side. Romero's black horse stopped, looked down quizzically at the fallen trees, then stepped over lightly. The Princess's sorrel followed, carefully. But Miss Cummins's buckskin made a fuss, and had to be got round.

    In the same silence, save for the clinking of the horses and the splashing as the trail crossed stream, they worked their way upwards in the tight, tangled shadow of the canyon. Sometimes, crossing stream, the Princess would glance upwards, and then always her heart caught in her breast. For high up, away in heaven, the mountain heights shone yellow, dappled with dark spruce firs, clear almost as speckled daffodils against the pale turquoise blue lying high and serene above the dark-blue shadow where the Princess was. And she would snatch at the blood-red leaves of the oak as her horse crossed a more open slope, not knowing what she felt.

    They were getting fairly high, occasionally lifted above the canyon itself, in the low groove below the speckled, gold-sparkling heights which towered beyond. Then again they dipped and crossed stream, the horses stepping gingerly across a tangle of fallen, frail aspen stems, then suddenly floundering in a mass of rocks. The black emerged ahead, his black tail waving. The Princess let her mare find her own footing; then she too emerged from the clatter. She rode on after the black. Then came a great frantic rattle of the buckskin behind. The Princess was aware of Romero's dark face looking round, with a strange, demon-like watchfulness, before she herself looked round, to see the buckskin scrambling rather lamely beyond the rocks, with one of his pale buff knees already red with blood.

    "He almost went down!" called Miss Cummins.

    But Romero was already out of the saddle and hastening down the path. He made quiet little noises to the buckskin, and began examining the cut knee.

    "Is he hurt?" cried Miss Cummins anxiously, and she climbed hastily down.

    "Oh, my goodness!" she cried, as she saw the blood running down the slender buff leg of the horse in a thin trickle. "Isn't that awful?" She spoke in a stricken voice, and her face was white.

    Romero was still carefully feeling the knee of the buckskin. Then he made him walk a few paces. And at last he stood up straight and shook his head.

    "Not very bad!" he said. "Nothing broken."

    Again he bent and worked at the knees. Then he looked up at the Princess.

    "He can go on," he said. "It's not bad."

    The Princess looked down at the dark face in silence.

    "What, go on right up here?" cried Miss Cummins. "How many hours?"

    "About five!" said Romero simply.

    "Five hours!" cried Miss Cummins. "A horse with a lame knee! And a steep mountain! Why-y!"

    "Yes, it's pretty steep up there," said Romero, pushing back his hat and staring fixedly at the bleeding knee. The buckskin stood in a stricken sort of dejection. "But I think he'll make it all right," the man added.

    "Oh!" cried Miss Cummins, her eyes bright with sudden passion of unshed tears. "I wouldn't think of it. I wouldn't ride him up there, not for any money."

    "Why wouldn't you?" asked Romero.

    "It hurts him."

    Romero bent down again to the horse's knee.

    "Maybe it hurts him a little," he said. "But he can make it all right, and his leg won't get stiff."

    "What! Ride him five hours up the steep mountains?" cried Miss Cummins. "I couldn't. I just couldn't do it. I'll lead him a little way and see if he can go. But I couldn't ride him again. I couldn't. Let me walk."

    "But Miss Cummins, dear, if Romero says he'll be all right?" said the Princess.

    "I know it hurts him. Oh, I just couldn't bear it."

    There was no doing anything with Miss Cummins. The thought of a hurt animal always put her into a sort of hysterics.

    They walked forward a little, leading the buckskin. He limped rather badly. Miss Cummins sat on a rock.

    "Why, it's agony to see him!" she cried. "It's cruel!"

    "He won't limp after a bit, if you take no notice of him," said Romero. "Now he plays up, and limps very much, because he wants to make you see."

    "I don't think there can be much playing up," said Miss Cummins bitterly. "We can see how it must hurt him."

    "It don't hurt much," said Romero.

    But now Miss Cummins was silent with antipathy.

    It was a deadlock. The party remained motionless on the trail, the Princess in the saddle, Miss Cummins seated on a rock, Romero standing black and remote near the drooping buckskin.

    "Well!" said the man suddenly at last. "I guess we go back, then."

    And he looked up swiftly at his horse, which was cropping at the mountain herbage and treading on the trailing reins.

    "No!" cried the Princess. "Oh no!" Her voice rang with a great wail of disappointment and anger. Then she checked herself.

    Miss Cummins rose with energy.

    "Let me lead the buckskin home," she said, with cold dignity, "and you two go on."

    This was received in silence. The Princess was looking down at her with a sardonic, almost cruel gaze.

    "We've only come about two hours," said Miss Cummins. "I don't mind a bit leading him home. But I couldn't ride him. I couldn't have him ridden with that knee."

    This again was received in dead silence. Romero remained impassive, almost inert.

    "Very well, then," said the Princess. "You lead him home. You'll be quite all right. Nothing can happen to you, possibly. And say to them that we have gone on and shall be home tomorrow--or the day after."

    She spoke coldly and distinctly. For she could not bear to be thwarted.
    I'm rather tired tonight, so I won't post any comments. I will do so tomorrow night.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  13. #2548
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    I don't exactly know how to interpret this episode. It's dominated by Romero and Miss Cummins, but we don't care about the latter and it does little to develop the former. Perhaps Miss Cummins is supposed to represent an alternative to Dollie. She could get squeemish as Miss Cummins does and turn around. Instead, she impetuously forges on, but the episode reminds us that she was aware of other options--and that she may have been conflicted at this point.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  14. #2549
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    I hate to disagree with you guys, but I do think she is naive. She has a fixed thought of goinng to the mountains to see the wild animals, but does she realize she will have to spend the night with a man. This is not the year 2008, where even if two people of the opposite sex agree to be platonic, can just go off together. This is prior to the sexual revolution and such a situation implies some sort of sexual possibility, and yet it doesn't even enter into calculation. No she really wants to go to see the wild animals and that in itself is a naivete.

    I'll post some more tonight. I could not believe I was able to get into lit net at work today.
    I still don't buy that she was going on the trip 'just to see wild animals'. I recall a passage about her and a cab driver or cab drivers in Italy or Europe; I thought there it said she knew what they wanted and laughed them off or ignored them...something like that. Well, I need to quote the exact lines, so I will look for it in my book, tonight. I think she was quite aware of sex. I don't know if she ventured into the mountains alone with a man thinking, thinking it would be totally platonic. I just can't buy that....sorry..

    I will check out your other long segment of text tomorrow or the next day. Thanks for posting it.

    This line stood out to me so far

    "He won't limp after a bit, if you take no notice of him," said Romero. "Now he plays up, and limps very much, because he wants to make you see."
    Then:
    "I don't think there can be much playing up," said Miss Cummins bitterly. "We can see how it must hurt him."
    "It don't hurt much," said Romero.
    Could this fortell how he will later treat the Princess....if he does not cater to her, he believes she will come around, like the horse? It won't hurt her much, just like the horse. This seems to indicate how Romero thinks, in animalistic terms.
    Last edited by Janine; 12-18-2008 at 01:33 AM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  15. #2550
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Let me address this section of the story first. I found this passage absolutely beautiful.

    The sun was already on the desert as they set off towards the mountains, making the greasewood and the sage pale as pale-grey sands, luminous the great level around them. To the right glinted the shadows of the adobe pueblo, flat and almost invisible on the plain, earth of its earth. Behind lay the ranch and the tufts of tall, plumy cottonwoods, whose summits were yellowing under the perfect blue sky.

    Autumn breaking into colour in the great spaces of the South-West.

    But the three trotted gently along the trail, towards the sun that sparkled yellow just above the dark bulk of the ponderous mountains. Side-slopes were already gleaming yellow, flaming with a second light, under coldish blue of the pale sky. The front slopes were in shadow, with submerged lustre of red oak scrub and dull-gold aspens, blue-black pines and grey-blue rock. While the canyon was full of a deep blueness.

    They rode single file, Romero first, on a black horse. Himself in black, made a flickering black spot in the delicate pallor of the great landscape, where even pine trees at a distance take a film of blue paler than their green. Romero rode on in silence past the tufts of furry greasewood. The Princess came next, on her sorrel mare. And Miss Cummins, who was not quite happy on horseback, came last, in the pale dust that the others kicked up. Sometimes her horse sneezed, and she started.

    But on they went at a gentle trot. Romero never looked round. He could hear the sound of the hoofs following, and that was all he wanted.
    Lawrence is an absolute master at describing nature.

    And some more:

    The stream was running full and swift. Occasionally the horses snatched at a tuft of grass. The trail narrowed and became rocky; the rocks closed in; it was dark and cool as the horses climbed and climbed upwards, and the tree trunks crowded in the shadowy, silent tightness of the canyon. They were among cottonwood trees that ran straight up and smooth and round to an extraordinary height. Above, the tips were gold, and it was sun. But away below, where the horses struggled up the rocks and wound among the trunks, there was still blue shadow by the sound of waters and an occasional grey festoon of old man's beard, and here and there a pale, dripping crane's-bill flower among the tangle and the débris of the virgin place. And again the chill entered the Princess's heart as she realised what a tangle of decay and despair lay in the virgin forests.

    They scrambled downwards, splashed across stream, up rocks and along the trail of the other side. Romero's black horse stopped, looked down quizzically at the fallen trees, then stepped over lightly. The Princess's sorrel followed, carefully. But Miss Cummins's buckskin made a fuss, and had to be got round.

    In the same silence, save for the clinking of the horses and the splashing as the trail crossed stream, they worked their way upwards in the tight, tangled shadow of the canyon. Sometimes, crossing stream, the Princess would glance upwards, and then always her heart caught in her breast. For high up, away in heaven, the mountain heights shone yellow, dappled with dark spruce firs, clear almost as speckled daffodils against the pale turquoise blue lying high and serene above the dark-blue shadow where the Princess was. And she would snatch at the blood-red leaves of the oak as her horse crossed a more open slope, not knowing what she felt.
    Let me say that many years ago, oh about fifteen I'm not sure exactly we took a vacation to the Grand Canyon and they have a expedition with mule rides down, camp the night, and mule ride up. Lawrence describes that ride just like we experienced it in the Grand Canyon. I don't have any pictures electronically to share but I pulled some off of google images. This is what it was like:









    And then Miss Cummins's horse gets hurt:
    They were getting fairly high, occasionally lifted above the canyon itself, in the low groove below the speckled, gold-sparkling heights which towered beyond. Then again they dipped and crossed stream, the horses stepping gingerly across a tangle of fallen, frail aspen stems, then suddenly floundering in a mass of rocks. The black emerged ahead, his black tail waving. The Princess let her mare find her own footing; then she too emerged from the clatter. She rode on after the black. Then came a great frantic rattle of the buckskin behind. The Princess was aware of Romero's dark face looking round, with a strange, demon-like watchfulness, before she herself looked round, to see the buckskin scrambling rather lamely beyond the rocks, with one of his pale buff knees already red with blood.
    Interesting how Romero's demon-ness comes out and the that for the second paragraph in a row blood is mentioned.

    Now the whole incident that forces Miss Cummins to go home s curious. Lawrence could have handled the plot by never bring up Miss Cummins and have Dollie and Romero go off on their own. But he takes great pains to have Miss C tag along, only to contrive an incident immediately to have her go home. The only thing I can think of is that Lawrence is showing how everyone would be appalled if Romero and Dollie went off together, and I'm referring to the impropriaty of a man and a woman being alone in the wild. Check this little scene:
    It was a deadlock. The party remained motionless on the trail, the Princess in the saddle, Miss Cummins seated on a rock, Romero standing black and remote near the drooping buckskin.

    "Well!" said the man suddenly at last. "I guess we go back, then."

    And he looked up swiftly at his horse, which was cropping at the mountain herbage and treading on the trailing reins.

    "No!" cried the Princess. "Oh no!" Her voice rang with a great wail of disappointment and anger. Then she checked herself.

    Miss Cummins rose with energy.

    "Let me lead the buckskin home," she said, with cold dignity, "and you two go on."

    This was received in silence. The Princess was looking down at her with a sardonic, almost cruel gaze.

    "We've only come about two hours," said Miss Cummins. "I don't mind a bit leading him home. But I couldn't ride him. I couldn't have him ridden with that knee."

    This again was received in dead silence. Romero remained impassive, almost inert.
    "Dead silience." The silence is an indication that the situation is inappropriate and no one wants to acknowledge it. Except that it never dawns on Dollie what the implication is:
    Very well, then," said the Princess. "You lead him home. You'll be quite all right. Nothing can happen to you, possibly. And say to them that we have gone on and shall be home tomorrow--or the day after."

    She spoke coldly and distinctly. For she could not bear to be thwarted.
    Lawrence provides a little irony: "Nothing can happen to you," he has Dollie say, and yet it is to Dollie that something will happen.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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