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Thread: The Idiot or The Possessed/Demons

  1. #16

    Crime and Punishment

    Just by reading my name you can tell which position I'm going to take on this issue, but, with that being said, I think you should not overlook Dostoevsky's greatness as an author.
    I'm going to use Svidrigaylov from Crime and Punishment to make my point.
    Svidrigaylov is a character quite unlike any other in literature. He is a despicable scoundrel and is mentioned a few times in the novel as possibly "ruining a poor girl's life." The girl, whom he possibly molested, which caused her to commit suicide. Moving on, in the Act V, Svidrigaylov has his series of dreams, one of which is where he approaches a young girl (I believe she was described as being around 8 years old), who is presumably trying to seduce him, and starts to "have desires" for her (this is obviously not a quote from the book, but for a lack of better diction to describe this scene). He recoils in his dream and wakes up in a sweat. He then proceeds to exit the room and in the early morning, finds "Achilles" and proceeds to "go to America" (I don't want to ruin the novel for anyone who hasn't read it, but if you HAVE read it, you'll understand exactly what I'm saying).
    My point: Svidrigaylov is not only a horrible person, but a child molester (these are especially horrible people, I'm not willing to argue about this, but to put it in short: I think most people would rather hang out with a murderer than a pedophile...). With that being said, the final scene in which he "goes to America" is an incredible scene in literature because it is here, that Svidrigaylov, the character who has been described as being a horrible, remorseless person, finally regains the thing that is unique to us humans, a conscience, and realizes his wrongs. Here he is finally "redeemed" through "suffering" as Raskolnikov soon does, but in an incredibly different fashion.
    Anyway, the point of that whole spiel is that Dostoevsky tackles issues like child molestation in such a way that is very mature and well-done. He is WAY ahead of his contemporary authors, and, I'd argue better than Tolstoy for this.
    And for a brief point: Dostoevsky wrote most of his work in the 1840's and 1860's-1870's. His novel Notes From Underground displays an understanding of the human subconscious in a way that is unprecedented in literature. Keep in mind that Sigmund Freud didn't receive his M.D. until Dostoevsky had already died (1881). Friedrich Nietzsche was extremely impressed by the novel, claiming that "Dostoevsky is one of the few psychologists from whom I have learned something," and that Notes from Underground "cried truth from the blood".

    So, in short: Stop ripping on Dostoevsky. He's the man.

  2. #17
    oops... meant to post this in "Fyodor Dostoevsky - Idiot"

  3. #18
    Actually, no I didn't.... ignore my second post!!

  4. #19
    the beloved: Gladys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DostoevskyFTW View Post
    Svidrigaylov, the character who has been described as being a horrible, remorseless person, finally regains the thing that is unique to us humans, a conscience, and realizes his wrongs. Here he is finally "redeemed" through "suffering" as Raskolnikov soon does, but in an incredibly different fashion.
    Svidrigaylov does feels guilt at the end and in this sense suffers. I hadn't before seen his 'works of love' to Sonia and the wandering five-year-old girl as repentance. But, of course you're right.

    But is suicide by revolver redemptive?

  5. #20
    Evelyn is not real Bumbeli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kafka's Crow View Post
    Two blasphemies in one post, I am amazed! I don't know about you but Dostoevsky changed my life. Tolstoy wrote a lot of forgettable stuff (I have read Anna Karenina thrice, all I can remember is the train station!) I have never forgotten anything written by Dostoevsky. He is GOD (with all three capital letters). We, who read in translation, can not judge the stylistic merits of his writing. I do like Tugenev and Lermontov though but they are no gods when it comes to that. Because of the linguistic constraints we will have to do with the philosophical dimension of Russian writing and nobody can even come near Dostoevsky in that respect, nobody in the entire world literature. I know there are objections concerning his style but I can't read Russian therefore can't comment on that. I don't find any loose-ends in the plots of his great novels. He shows the Russian soul at its worst and at its best. This is the great joy of being able to read good books: they show you humanity in its amazing diversity and complexity.
    Quote for truth.
    Dostoevsky changes lifes, Tolstoy provides excellent literature.
    Dostoevsky can depress you, but it can also cheer you up, I remember reading the Idiot, I was on my holiday in france, it was devastating. It took me about two days to read that, I never went to the beach, to the city or anywhere outside my house. When I was done, I didn't leave for another week, it was like something crushed down on me. I loved it, still love it and reading that book made me realize some things, widened my horizon.
    The Possesed on the other hand, didn't really get to me in such a way. It is amazing, but I'd pick the Idiot over it anytime.

  6. #21
    the beloved: Gladys's Avatar
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    Widened horizons

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumbeli View Post
    ...but it can also cheer you up, I remember reading the Idiot...
    The novel radiates warmth but, on finishing, I felt let down for a couple of days. Then, like the sun rising, I began to intuit the majesty of those closing pages: a love sublime.

    A month ago, Arundhati Roy’s 'The God of Small Things', left a similar delayed impact.

  7. #22
    Critical from Birth Dr. Hill's Avatar
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    Dostoevsky is eons ahead of Tolstoy as a philosopher. I enjoy Tolstoy to a great extent, but Dostoevsky's intelligence is so much more apparent, and if I were to take a guess, I'd say he was more intelligent than Tolstoy.
    The salvation of the world is in man's suffering. - Faulkner

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