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Thread: Poe Short Story Discussion Group

  1. #121
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    This line tells me three things:
    1) She showed her terrors on her face.
    2) She was becoming dangerously thin.
    3) Married a month and already sleeping in separate beds. This marriage may not have been consummated. He might have meant something else when he wrote, “in a bridal chamber such as this --I passed, with the Lady of Tremaine, the unhallowed hours of the first month of our marriage…” I think this is another sign to show us that he did not love her, but he was beside her doing this time. However, the story could not move forward if he just let her die in another room.
    It was also not uncommon in that period of time, for the wealthy for the man and wife to have seperate bedrooms, where they would sleep apart from each other, exepct on nights when the woman was called to the mans chamber, and usually only for the sake of attempting to reproduce. As this was the time when women were not suppose to be truly passionate or enjoy sex. Sex was intended for primararily procreation.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    I think the narrator is telling us a storm was approaching (or had arrived). We all know something is coming, but at this time it is just the storm outside moving the tapestries. That storm will have its apex in the conclusion of the story. I think this is also a point to the reader that her visions could have been the irregular patterns in the tapestries that were moving due to the wind. This is to cast doubt on her visions as merely the figures on the tapestry seeming to be alive.
    Yes, I agree, as well the reader will recall what he had told us about the cloth at the very begining when he described the chamber to us. And the way they did appear to have strange characertics and life of their own. So this puts the reader in mind to suspect that Rowena's mind is just playing tricks upon her, particuarly in her current state.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    The narrator tried to show Rowena that there was nothing to be afraid of, but he could not convince her. I liked the use of ‘fruitless’ here by Poe. It is a word that could also be used to describe their marriage (both metaphorically and physically)
    Yes, that is a good point, the word frutiless here could have a double meaning and refelct the state of thier marraige.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    Thus we cannot rule out the strong dose of a terrible substance that dulls the scenes. The footsteps could have been a servant, but by the time the narrator registered the sounds, the servant was already out of the door.
    This also brings to mind what he told us at the very beigning about the footfall of Ligeia.

    I would in vain attempt to portray the majesty, the quiet ease, of her demeanor, or the incomprehensible lightness and elasticity of her footfall.
    I think it was a very clever device of Poe's to try and lesson the supernatural possiblity of this story by giving the reader a rational out, if you will. I think by controling the doubt, of the readers mind, it does lead one more to question. If he had gone straight for the supernatural it might not have had as strong as effect, and may have proven even less beliveable, but by Poe being the one to plant the doubt, it creates far more mystery.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    One interesting point to me was this is the first time he calls his wife by her first name ONLY. This shows to me a familiarity that was absent from the last few paragraphs. Maybe he was beginning to like her since he had been there with her.
    I am not sure I think he is truly growing to care for her, but I think one of the reasons perhaps for his use of her first name, I think is because of her suffering condition, though he does not love her, and even said he had loathed her, he does not seem to be so completely cruel, I think he is sorry that she is dying and has some compassion inspite of the nature of thier relationship.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    Rowena’s body reminded him of Ligeia. It may have the shroud, the material, the grief, or the angle. Not only did he remember Ligeia in death, but also a ton of memories of Ligeia when she was alive. This moment could have tainted him even more than the opium, or the feeble memory, or the intervening years than even he wanted to admit.
    I do not think it was the body itself that made him think of Ligeia here, I think it was just her death in general which brought him back to mind of Ligeia's own death. And I think seeing Rowena lying dead, brought him to mind the memory of wittnissing the death of his true love. I think it was just the process to experincing death again which made him think of Ligeia.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  2. #122
    Fan of Norman, Poe, Doyle LC_Lancer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10-03-2008, 04:18 PM
    Though we know he does not care nor love his wife, he he does seem to at least care for her as a general human being. He does attend to her during her illness, and expresses anxiety over her condidtion.
    He could have just had to be with her since she was sick in the turret. I mentioned this in my post. He could not just send her away because the story would have less of an effect if she died in a different room. Even if he did not love (or even like) her, as a woman of her status she needed to remain in the chamber. I have speculated that this room may have been the only one finished and now I think it could be the only one in the turret.

    +++
    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    The wind was rushing hurriedly behind the tapestries, and I wished to show her (what, let me confess it, I could not all believe) that those almost inarticulate breathings, and those very gentle variations of the figures upon the wall, were but the natural effects of that customary rushing of the wind.
    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10-03-2008, 04:18 PM
    So is there really something there, or is Rowena hallucinating within her sickly state, being locked away within such a place that would end the mind even of a healty person to wild fancies.
    I agree. Anyone who was well would not have seen the same things as she did. It also could be because she was actually sick and close to death. She might have been able to see through the veil of life and death, but the narrator could not.

    +++

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    But, as I stepped beneath the light of the censer, two circumstances of a startling nature attracted my attention. I had felt that some palpable although invisible object had passed lightly by my person; and I saw that there lay upon the golden carpet, in the very middle of the rich lustre thrown from the censer, a shadow --a faint, indefinite shadow of angelic aspect --such as might be fancied for the shadow of a shade
    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10-03-2008, 04:18 PM
    Here is an intersting passage. Whatever it is which has been disturbing Rowena, now seems to come to the attention of the narrator. He feels the pressence of an unseend object, and then the shadow.
    He only sees the shadow after it passed through him. I think that is important. If it is Ligeia, she could have been trying to touch or kiss him. She might have needed a connection to this world to complete the return. I also think it is important that he was in the center of the room when it happened. Since it would be in the center of the pentagon (or pentagram), it would have been the strongest place in the room.

    +++

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10-03-2008, 04:18 PM
    It interesting that here he does use the word angelic to speak of this shadow of which he catches sight of. As the word was one he so often linked to his discritions of Ligiea.
    Not just Ligeia, but of a supernatural being. To me, this part of the sentence brought the idea that the shadow was above the ground (as on wings), but at least floating in the air with no visible way of touching the ground. Since Ligeia was dead, then she would fit that description. Ligeia wrote about angels, but I think he describes her closer to a shadow than an angel. From a literary point of view, I think Poe is placing a doubt for those people who thought at this point that Ligeia was trying to return. Dark Muse said it best, “…always always inserting that seed of doubt”

    +++

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10-06-2008 at 02:58 PM
    I am not sure I think he is truly growing to care for her, but I think one of the reasons perhaps for his use of her first name, I think is because of her suffering condition, though he does not love her, and even said he had loathed her, he does not seem to be so completely cruel, I think he is sorry that she is dying and has some compassion inspite of the nature of thier relationship.
    I agree that he has “compassion” and he has sympathy for her, but the ‘loathing’ could have been replaced in the intermitted four days. I would not go as far to say that he ‘loved’ her, I said that maybe he was beginning to’ like’ her. Since Ligeia poured out her heart on her death bed, maybe he was changing his opinion about Rowena on her death bed.

    As for the rest of the post, I agree with Dark Muse. It is good that we are on the same page again.
    LC Lancer
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    My breast her shield in wintry weather-
    And when the friendly sunshine smil'd,
    And she would mark the opening skies,
    I saw no Heaven- but in her eyes.

    Tamerlane

  3. #123
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    I do not have anything new to add to what you have stated above. I agree with much of what you said, and so I will go ahead and post the last chunk of the story so we can get this story wrapped up.

    It might have been midnight, or perhaps earlier, or later, for I had taken no note of time, when a sob, low, gentle, but very distinct, startled me from my revery. --I felt that it came from the bed of ebony --the bed of death. I listened in an agony of superstitious terror --but there was no repetition of the sound. I strained my vision to detect any motion in the corpse --but there was not the slightest perceptible. Yet I could not have been deceived. I had heard the noise, however faint, and my soul was awakened within me. I resolutely and perseveringly kept my attention riveted upon the body. Many minutes elapsed before any circumstance occurred tending to throw light upon the mystery. At length it became evident that a slight, a very feeble, and barely noticeable tinge of color had flushed up within the cheeks, and along the sunken small veins of the eyelids. Through a species of unutterable horror and awe, for which the language of mortality has no sufficiently energetic expression, I felt my heart cease to beat, my limbs grow rigid where I sat. Yet a sense of duty finally operated to restore my self-possession. I could no longer doubt that we had been precipitate in our preparations --that Rowena still lived. It was necessary that some immediate exertion be made; yet turret was altogether apart from the portion of the abbey tenanted by the servants --there were none within call --I had no means of summoning them to my aid without leaving the room for many minutes --and this I could not venture to do. I therefore struggled alone in my endeavors to call back the spirit ill hovering. In a short period it was certain, however, that a relapse had taken place; the color disappeared from both eyelid and cheek, leaving a wanness even more than that of marble; the lips became doubly shrivelled and pinched up in the ghastly expression of death; a repulsive clamminess and coldness overspread rapidly the surface of the body; and all the usual rigorous illness immediately supervened. I fell back with a shudder upon the couch from which I had been so startlingly aroused, and again gave myself up to passionate waking visions of Ligeia.

    An hour thus elapsed when (could it be possible?) I was a second time aware of some vague sound issuing from the region of the bed. I listened --in extremity of horror. The sound came again --it was a sigh. Rushing to the corpse, I saw --distinctly saw --a tremor upon the lips. In a minute afterward they relaxed, disclosing a bright line of the pearly teeth. Amazement now struggled in my bosom with the profound awe which had hitherto reigned there alone. I felt that my vision grew dim, that my reason wandered; and it was only by a violent effort that I at length succeeded in nerving myself to the task which duty thus once more had pointed out. There was now a partial glow upon the forehead and upon the cheek and throat; a perceptible warmth pervaded the whole frame; there was even a slight pulsation at the heart. The lady lived; and with redoubled ardor I betook myself to the task of restoration. I chafed and bathed the temples and the hands, and used every exertion which experience, and no little. medical reading, could suggest. But in vain. Suddenly, the color fled, the pulsation ceased, the lips resumed the expression of the dead, and, in an instant afterward, the whole body took upon itself the icy chilliness, the livid hue, the intense rigidity, the sunken outline, and all the loathsome peculiarities of that which has been, for many days, a tenant of the tomb.

    And again I sunk into visions of Ligeia --and again, (what marvel that I shudder while I write,) again there reached my ears a low sob from the region of the ebony bed. But why shall I minutely detail the unspeakable horrors of that night? Why shall I pause to relate how, time after time, until near the period of the gray dawn, this hideous drama of revivification was repeated; how each terrific relapse was only into a sterner and apparently more irredeemable death; how each agony wore the aspect of a struggle with some invisible foe; and how each struggle was succeeded by I know not what of wild change in the personal appearance of the corpse? Let me hurry to a conclusion.

    The greater part of the fearful night had worn away, and she who had been dead, once again stirred --and now more vigorously than hitherto, although arousing from a dissolution more appalling in its utter hopelessness than any. I had long ceased to struggle or to move, and remained sitting rigidly upon the ottoman, a helpless prey to a whirl of violent emotions, of which extreme awe was perhaps the least terrible, the least consuming. The corpse, I repeat, stirred, and now more vigorously than before. The hues of life flushed up with unwonted energy into the countenance --the limbs relaxed --and, save that the eyelids were yet pressed heavily together, and that the bandages and draperies of the grave still imparted their charnel character to the figure, I might have dreamed that Rowena had indeed shaken off, utterly, the fetters of Death. But if this idea was not, even then, altogether adopted, I could at least doubt no longer, when, arising from the bed, tottering, with feeble steps, with closed eyes, and with the manner of one bewildered in a dream, the thing that was enshrouded advanced boldly and palpably into the middle of the apartment.

    I trembled not --I stirred not --for a crowd of unutterable fancies connected with the air, the stature, the demeanor of the figure, rushing hurriedly through my brain, had paralyzed --had chilled me into stone. I stirred not --but gazed upon the apparition. There was a mad disorder in my thoughts --a tumult unappeasable. Could it, indeed, be the living Rowena who confronted me? Could it indeed be Rowena at all --the fair-haired, the blue-eyed Lady Rowena Trevanion of Tremaine? Why, why should I doubt it? The bandage lay heavily about the mouth --but then might it not be the mouth of the breathing Lady of Tremaine? And the cheeks-there were the roses as in her noon of life --yes, these might indeed be the fair cheeks of the living Lady of Tremaine. And the chin, with its dimples, as in health, might it not be hers? --but had she then grown taller since her malady? What inexpressible madness seized me with that thought? One bound, and I had reached her feet! Shrinking from my touch, she let fall from her head, unloosened, the ghastly cerements which had confined it, and there streamed forth, into the rushing atmosphere of the chamber, huge masses of long and dishevelled hair; it was blacker than the raven wings of the midnight! And now slowly opened the eyes of the figure which stood before me. "Here then, at least," I shrieked aloud, "can I never --can I never be mistaken --these are the full, and the black, and the wild eyes --of my lost love --of the lady --of the LADY LIGEIA."

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  4. #124
    Fan of Norman, Poe, Doyle LC_Lancer's Avatar
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    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    It might have been midnight, or perhaps earlier, or later, for I had taken no note of time, when a sob, low, gentle, but very distinct, startled me from my revery. --I felt that it came from the bed of ebony --the bed of death. I listened in an agony of superstitious terror --but there was no repetition of the sound. I strained my vision to detect any motion in the corpse --but there was not the slightest perceptible. Yet I could not have been deceived. I had heard the noise, however faint, and my soul was awakened within me. I resolutely and perseveringly kept my attention riveted upon the body. Many minutes elapsed before any circumstance occurred tending to throw light upon the mystery. At length it became evident that a slight, a very feeble, and barely noticeable tinge of color had flushed up within the cheeks, and along the sunken small veins of the eyelids.

    He said “revery” term for daydream. But at night, he could have been in deep sleep or REM. He said that he was snapped back to life with the moan, but then he describes the happenings of the room. I am wondering if he took a few minutes to wake up fully.
    This was the first vision or attempt at life for the lifeless Rowena. He could see her skin and veins of her eye lids through the shroud. That is very fine detail to see, but it could be a dream (if he was asleep). It could have been that Rowena’s face was uncovered while the rest of her remained wrapped. Very uncommon. Most likely it was wrapped fewer times than the rest of her head.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    Through a species of unutterable horror and awe, for which the language of mortality has no sufficiently energetic expression, I felt my heart cease to beat, my limbs grow rigid where I sat. Yet a sense of duty finally operated to restore my self-possession..

    He was ‘scared stiff’ or it could have been a dream where he could not move since his body was on the ottoman. This section could be based on Poe actual life. Virginia was sick at this time so Poe may be projecting his own wishes and desires into the story.



    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    It was necessary that some immediate exertion be made; yet turret was altogether apart from the portion of the abbey tenanted by the servants --there were none within call --I had no means of summoning them to my aid without leaving the room for many minutes --and this I could not venture to do.

    He had no way to get a servant “without leaving the room for many minutes”. The turret must have been high. Or the servant quarters were not near the base of the turret. This also set the situation that there was not other witnesses to the event that is about to happen.



    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    I therefore struggled alone in my endeavors to call back the spirit ill hovering. In a short period it was certain, however, that a relapse had taken place; the color disappeared from both eyelid and cheek, leaving a wanness even more than that of marble; the lips became doubly shrivelled and pinched up in the ghastly expression of death; a repulsive clamminess and coldness overspread rapidly the surface of the body; and all the usual rigorous illness immediately supervened. I fell back with a shudder upon the couch from which I had been so startlingly aroused, and again gave myself up to passionate waking visions of Ligeia.

    This is the end of the second attempt. Since Rowena was dead, it may have been Ligeia was not strong enough to make the complete connection. Or something else. He use the term “aroused” and “passionate” here and he even mentioned having visions of Ligeia. I think they were used for a reason: to remind us of this devotion and longing for Ligeia.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    An hour thus elapsed when (could it be possible?) I was a second time aware of some vague sound issuing from the region of the bed. I listened --in extremity of horror. The sound came again --it was a sigh. Rushing to the corpse, I saw --distinctly saw --a tremor upon the lips. In a minute afterward they relaxed, disclosing a bright line of the pearly teeth.

    Here is another indication that he could have fallen asleep. Another attempt, but again failure. Poe even describes the way the body face was here.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    Amazement now struggled in my bosom with the profound awe which had hitherto reigned there alone.

    I love this sentence. He is telling us that ‘amazement’ joined ‘awe’ in his heart. Why? A myriad of reasons come to mind.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    I felt that my vision grew dim, that my reason wandered; and it was only by a violent effort that I at length succeeded in nerving myself to the task which duty thus once more had pointed out.

    He was still affects of the opium or he had an illness, or just the lack of sleep, but he did bring himself back into the present.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    There was now a partial glow upon the forehead and upon the cheek and throat; a perceptible warmth pervaded the whole frame; there was even a slight pulsation at the heart. The lady lived; and with redoubled ardor I betook myself to the task of restoration. I chafed and bathed the temples and the hands, and used every exertion which experience, and no little. medical reading, could suggest.

    He tried to coax her back. I do not know if he thought his actions would be the sole reason for life to enter Rowena’s body or if it was just the narrator wanted do something instead of just waiting. He might have fallen asleep again and missed the ending.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    And again I sunk into visions of Ligeia --and again, (what marvel that I shudder while I write,) again there reached my ears a low sob from the region of the ebony bed. But why shall I minutely detail the unspeakable horrors of that night? Why shall I pause to relate how, time after time, until near the period of the gray dawn, this hideous drama of revivification was repeated; how each terrific relapse was only into a sterner and apparently more irredeemable death; how each agony wore the aspect of a struggle with some invisible foe; and how each struggle was succeeded by I know not what of wild change in the personal appearance of the corpse? Let me hurry to a conclusion.

    This one paragraph did not move the story forward. It is a series of questions. It may have been inserted to slow the reader, or Poe was making sure the reader is on the same page that he was on; with his intention of the story. Or simply to fill in the needed space on the printed page or it was too short. I don’t know.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    The greater part of the fearful night had worn away, and she who had been dead, once again stirred --and now more vigorously than hitherto, although arousing from a dissolution more appalling in its utter hopelessness than any. I had long ceased to struggle or to move, and remained sitting rigidly upon the ottoman, a helpless prey to a whirl of violent emotions, of which extreme awe was perhaps the least terrible, the least consuming.

    He indicates that it is early morning, but not yet dawn. The saying “it is darkest just before the dawn” came to my mind when I re-read this passage, but not the first time. Maybe the veil between death and life is the thinnest at that time. The narrator was scared stiff, again. I think this time he wanted to see what was happening. If he left, there would be no one there to see it. If he thought it was Ligeia, then he wanted to be the first to greet her.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    The corpse, I repeat, stirred, and now more vigorously than before. The hues of life flushed up with unwonted energy into the countenance --the limbs relaxed --and, save that the eyelids were yet pressed heavily together, and that the bandages and draperies of the grave still imparted their charnel character to the figure, I might have dreamed that Rowena had indeed shaken off, utterly, the fetters of Death. But if this idea was not, even then, altogether adopted, I could at least doubt no longer, when, arising from the bed, tottering, with feeble steps, with closed eyes, and with the manner of one bewildered in a dream, the thing that was enshrouded advanced boldly and palpably into the middle of the apartment.

    Eyelids were clamped shut and face could still be seen. The shroud was transparent especially around the face.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    I trembled not --I stirred not --for a crowd of unutterable fancies connected with the air, the stature, the demeanor of the figure, rushing hurriedly through my brain, had paralyzed --had chilled me into stone.

    He did not move, but he was not scared. He recognized the body and realized that some things he had hoped about could be coming true. However, this could be his mind set. Then the interpretation the events that follow is suspect. If it was his mind set before he slept, then this part is suspect. But more on that later.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    I stirred not --but gazed upon the apparition. There was a mad disorder in my thoughts --a tumult unappeasable. Could it, indeed, be the living Rowena who confronted me? Could it indeed be Rowena at all --the fair-haired, the blue-eyed Lady Rowena Trevanion of Tremaine? Why, why should I doubt it? The bandage lay heavily about the mouth --but then might it not be the mouth of the breathing Lady of Tremaine?

    He stopped calling Rowena in the familiar and returned to her formal title.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    And the cheeks-there were the roses as in her noon of life --yes, these might indeed be the fair cheeks of the living Lady of Tremaine. And the chin, with its dimples, as in health, might it not be hers? --but had she then grown taller since her malady? What inexpressible madness seized me with that thought?

    The new person in the room is different. She is taller, she has dimples now and even her facial features have changed. But he is unwilling to make the last step to hope is Ligeia, but he did move to her; maybe out of fear.


    ===

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    One bound, and I had reached her feet! Shrinking from my touch, she let fall from her head, unloosened, the ghastly cerements which had confined it, and there streamed forth, into the rushing atmosphere of the chamber, huge masses of long and dishevelled hair; it was blacker than the raven wings of the midnight! And now slowly opened the eyes of the figure which stood before me. "Here then, at least," I shrieked aloud, "can I never --can I never be mistaken --these are the full, and the black, and the wild eyes --of my lost love --of the lady --of the LADY LIGEIA."

    He knelt at her feet, but she walked away from him to the center of the room. I thought it interesting that she moved away from his touch. Maybe the transformation was not complete yet or she wanted to punish him for some transgression.
    If the face could be seen, but her hair could not, then the shroud may have been wrapped around her head more times then her face. Since she kept her eyes closed, the narrator could not see them. When she opened them, he recognized Ligeia by her eyes that were now in Rowena’s body.

    This whole scene could have been a dream that he had while sitting beside Rowena’s dead body in the waiting for the servants to get her all the time wishing Ligeia could come back to him.



    Nah!!!! Ligeia returned in Rowena’s body to be with him!!!
    LC Lancer
    ____________________________________________
    My breast her shield in wintry weather-
    And when the friendly sunshine smil'd,
    And she would mark the opening skies,
    I saw no Heaven- but in her eyes.

    Tamerlane

  5. #125
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    [color=blue]
    He said “revery” term for daydream. But at night, he could have been in deep sleep or REM. He said that he was snapped back to life with the moan, but then he describes the happenings of the room. I am wondering if he took a few minutes to wake up fully.
    It is interesting his use of that particular word. No doubt it is another way of suggesting doubt to the reader to put the idea in thier mind that it may have all been but a dream.

    The way it says he was "startled" from his revery to me seems to suggest that his waking was instant.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post

    He had no way to get a servant “without leaving the room for many minutes”. The turret must have been high. Or the servant quarters were not near the base of the turret. This also set the situation that there was not other witnesses to the event that is about to happen.
    To me it is interesting the way in which he states that he could not leave the room even to summon one of the servants. He thinks here that she might in fact still be alive, and yet he cannot leave even to go and fetch some help.

    I agree it is also imporant to note, that here the only proof of what is going on is what the narrator is telling us. There is no one else whom can validate this experince for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post

    This is the end of the second attempt. Since Rowena was dead, it may have been Ligeia was not strong enough to make the complete connection. Or something else. He use the term “aroused” and “passionate” here and he even mentioned having visions of Ligeia. I think they were used for a reason: to remind us of this devotion and longing for Ligeia.
    I too found it interesting how the words arroused and passionate appear together in the same scentence as the name Ligeia, and his stating of his visions of her.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    This is the end of the second attempt
    This is still part of the fist attempt, the second attempt had not yet happend yet, as seen in the next quoted part of the text where he says

    I was a second time aware of some vague sound issuing from the region of the bed.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post

    Here is another indication that he could have fallen asleep. Another attempt, but again failure. Poe even describes the way the body face was here.
    Yes these first lines

    An hour thus elapsed when (could it be possible?)
    The way in which he ueses the words elapsed and is surprsied by how much time has passed suggests there is a chance he had yet again slipped into sleep when once more awakend by some stirring from the corpse.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post

    I love this sentence. He is telling us that ‘amazement’ joined ‘awe’ in his heart. Why? A myriad of reasons come to mind.
    Yes I agree, it is interesting that when before he seemed to be purely struck with horror, now the feeling of amazement comes over him.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    [
    He was still affects of the opium or he had an illness, or just the lack of sleep, but he did bring himself back into the present.
    I would say either it is the opium, or the late hour, and his struggle between waking and sleeping. There is nothing to suggest that he is ill.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post

    He tried to coax her back. I do not know if he thought his actions would be the sole reason for life to enter Rowena’s body or if it was just the narrator wanted do something instead of just waiting. He might have fallen asleep again and missed the ending.
    I think at this point, he simply feels the obligation to do something. He belives that she is still alive and he cannot bring it to himself to just stand by and watch, as we saw when she was ill in spite of his feelings about her, he still showed some compassion toward her condition.

    Suddenly, the color fled, the pulsation ceased, the lips resumed the expression of the dead, and, in an instant afterward, the whole body took upon itself the icy chilliness, the livid hue, the intense rigidity, the sunken outline, and all the loathsome peculiarities of that which has been, for many days, a tenant of the tomb.
    I found it interesting that each time life fades again within her, it is almost as if she is dying all over again.

    the whole body took upon itself the icy chilliness
    This line in particular I found to be interesting. Also I think the use of the words "intense rigidity" is an interesting pairing.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post

    This one paragraph did not move the story forward. It is a series of questions. It may have been inserted to slow the reader, or Poe was making sure the reader is on the same page that he was on; with his intention of the story. Or simply to fill in the needed space on the printed page or it was too short. I don’t know.
    I think in someways it serves to remind the reader that this is being written long after the fact of it happening. This feels to me like the narrator reflecting upon his current thoughts of just what happend that night. Becasue of his feeble memory maybe he needed a moment to regather his thoughts before he proceeded. This feels like a sort of aside of personal reflection.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post

    He indicates that it is early morning, but not yet dawn. The saying “it is darkest just before the dawn” came to my mind when I re-read this passage, but not the first time. Maybe the veil between death and life is the thinnest at that time. The narrator was scared stiff, again. I think this time he wanted to see what was happening. If he left, there would be no one there to see it. If he thought it was Ligeia, then he wanted to be the first to greet her.
    It is believed by some that 3am is the true "witching hour" and that is the moment in which spirits truly are most active.

    I also found it interesting here how he comes to simply submit to what is happening now. He gives into it, and remains fixed where he is, no longer does he try and move or revive the corpse. This could suggest the change that is about to come, even if he does not fully realize it yet. Or perhaps it is suggesting to the reader what happens. As it reaminds me of the way he was always submissive to Ligeia in thier life together.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post

    He did not move, but he was not scared. He recognized the body and realized that some things he had hoped about could be coming true. However, this could be his mind set. Then the interpretation the events that follow is suspect. If it was his mind set before he slept, then this part is suspect. But more on that later.
    I would somewhat disagree with you here. To me the use of the words "paralyzed, and "chilled to the bone" could be a suggestion of fear.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    He knelt at her feet, but she walked away from him to the center of the room. I thought it interesting that she moved away from his touch. Maybe the transformation was not complete yet or she wanted to punish him for some transgression.
    Yes it is interesting how she moved away from this touch. And the fact that it comes back to eyes again, which play such an important role thoughout this whole story. It is ultimately her eyes which causes him to make the final realization that he is facing Ligeia.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

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    Fan of Norman, Poe, Doyle LC_Lancer's Avatar
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    I have only four points.

    Originally Posted by LC_Lancer on 10-06-2008 at 08:55 PM
    He was still affects of the opium or he had an illness, or just the lack of sleep, but he did bring himself back into the present.
    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10-06-2008 at 10:28 PM
    I would say either it is the opium, or the late hour, and his struggle between waking and sleeping. There is nothing to suggest that he is ill.

    This was speculative on my part. Since we do not know the nature of Rowena’s illness, it is not out of the realm of possibility that she was contagious. He MIGHT have been ill. When I factored in the drafty turret, it opened up several more possibilities. Thus that opens another possibility that he was sick and saw things that were not there.


    +++

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10-06-2008 at 10:28 PM
    This is still part of the fist attempt, the second attempt had not yet happend yet,

    I thought I counted three times that Ligeia tried to get into Rowena’s body, but when I was proofreading my post, I counted four. My original post also indicated that Poe readers would know and understand the meaning of three. Thus I think he did the two previous attempts on purpose to increase the suspense and to touch the readers.


    +++

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10-06-2008 at 10:28 PM
    It is believed by some that 3am is the true "witching hour" and that is the moment in which spirits truly are most active.

    Put me in that category. I have called it ‘the soul’s midnight hour’ since reading Something Wicked This Way Come in the eighth grade. I had thought of that time when creating my last post, but I got the impression it was later; closer to dawn.


    +++

    Ligeia by Edgar Allan Poe
    I trembled not --I stirred not --for a crowd of unutterable fancies connected with the air, the stature, the demeanor of the figure, rushing hurriedly through my brain, had paralyzed --had chilled me into stone.
    Originally Posted by LC_Lancer 08:55 PM
    He did not move, but he was not scared. He recognized the body and realized that some things he had hoped about could be coming true.
    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10-06-2008 at 10:28 PM
    I would somewhat disagree with you here. To me the use of the words "paralyzed, and "chilled to the bone" could be a suggestion of fear.

    I will also disagree here with you somewhat. I agree the terms "paralyzed, and "chilled to the bone" could be used to suggest fear. However, the narrator said, “I trembled not”. I took that to mean that he was not nervous, scared, or frightened. The part that did ‘paralyze’ him was the thoughts that either Rowena was alive again or Ligeia had returned; not what was happening in front of him. Since she began to change in to a familiar person, he would not have bee frightened especially if he had been following her orders to prepare the sight.

    Your ''sacrifice of Rowena'' idea could be a valid point if one believes he was following Ligeia’s orders all along.
    LC Lancer
    ____________________________________________
    My breast her shield in wintry weather-
    And when the friendly sunshine smil'd,
    And she would mark the opening skies,
    I saw no Heaven- but in her eyes.

    Tamerlane

  7. #127
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Well I think that is a wrap for this story. It was interesting. So now onward.

    Though it can easily be argued and agreed upon that pretty much all of Poe's stories are Halloween appropriate the next story I have in mind I think is a touch more seaonsable I shall say then the others. For it features one of the most common Halloween icons. If you have not guessed.

    Yes, I speak of The Black Cat

    Online text: http://classiclit.about.com/library/...e-blackcat.htm


    Not as long or as detailed as Ligeia, but I think it is a "fun" read, and an interesting story.

    On Friday I will post the offical introduction, that should give people enough time to read it, and after the Inroduction discussion may begin.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  8. #128
    Caddy smells like trees caddy_caddy's Avatar
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    oops! I am late.
    May I post my comment on the story;actually I read it in a completely different way!!

  9. #129
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Yes, you may post your thoughts on Ligeia

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

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    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    The Black Cat



    Online text: http://classiclit.about.com/library/...e-blackcat.htm

    In a lot of Poe's work elements of his own personal life, his fears, and experiences can be seen, but in many ways The Black Cat can be viewed as his most "autobiographical" story. Though of course it is still steeped in the fantastic and highly dramatized.

    A lot of parallels can be seen between the narrator of this story and Poe's own personal life. In spite of his stories, Poe was known to be a rather mild mannered gentle-natured man. He loved his wife Virginia very much, and was tender to her, he also had a love for animals,

    But when he did give way to drinking, he was what is known commonly as a "mean drunk" when under the influence of school, he was not pleasant to be around and became fowl tempered, and was disliked.

    This story can be seen as Poe's own struggles with the drink, it has also been suggested that it is the story of his overwhelming imagination and his struggle with the vivid images, feelings, thoughts, which inspire his stories but also haunted and tormented him.

    Overview of the story

    Warning: You may not want to read if you have not read the story yet. It does contain some spoilers.

    The Black Cat is the story of a man who begins as a decent and gentle-souled individual with great love and tenderness for his dear wife, and a caring and loving nature toward the many pets they have. In particular he loves their black cat, who is a favorite of his wife. But something takes hold of him and with the help of alcohol he becomes gradually more ill-tempered, and begins to mistreat both the pets and his wife. He begins to fantasize that the cat grows to resent him, and this further insights his anger. The cat starts to become an almost supernatural presence in his life, and with his growing downward spiral he is eventually driven to committing a most heinous act of murder.
    Discussion may now begin!
    Last edited by Dark Muse; 10-10-2008 at 02:24 PM.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

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    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    I want to start off with the opening paragraph, it helps "introduce" the Narrator to us, and gives clues to information about him, and the nature of the story to follow which may effect the way we interpret the events as they unravel before us.

    For the most wild, yet most homely narrative which I am about to pen, I neither expect nor solicit belief. Mad indeed would I be to expect it, in a case where my very senses reject their own evidence. Yet, mad am I not --and very surely do I not dream. But to-morrow I die, and to-day I would unburden my soul. My immediate purpose is to place before the world, plainly, succinctly, and without comment, a series of mere household events. In their consequences, these events have terrified --have tortured --have destroyed me. Yet I will not attempt to expound them. To me, they have presented little but Horror --to many they will seem less terrible than baroques. Hereafter, perhaps, some intellect may be found which will reduce my phantasm to the common-place --some intellect more calm, more logical, and far less excitable than my own, which will perceive, in the circumstances I detail with awe, nothing more than an ordinary succession of very natural causes and effects.
    The reliability or unreliability of a narrator is almost always important in a Poe story, because the stories are really quite fantastic, there needs to be a certain trust of the person telling these events to believe they actually have occurred. Also when the story is being recounted (as a past event, or as it is happening) and the state the narrator is in during the telling also usually plays an important role in the story itself.

    For the most wild, yet most homely narrative which I am about to pen, I neither expect nor solicit belief. Mad indeed would I be to expect it, in a case where my very senses reject their own evidence.
    First of all, interesting use of both "wild" and "homely" he uses both these contradictory words to describe the tale he is about to tell.

    Also he is trying in elicit the trust of the reader by telling us, that he himself admits that what he is going to say will sound crazy, in this way he is trying to set himself up for being sane, by acknowledging how outlandish the events are.

    Yet, mad am I not --and very surely do I not dream. But to-morrow I die, and to-day I would unburden my soul.
    Here he tries to reassure the reader of his mental state, as well we now know that the story is an account of something that happened in the past, and it is being told as a confessional.

    My immediate purpose is to place before the world, plainly, succinctly, and without comment, a series of mere household events. In their consequences, these events have terrified --have tortured --have destroyed me. Yet I will not attempt to expound them.
    This helps set up a greater feeling of fear in the reader. For it is suggesting the things which he is about to tell us, is something which could happen to anyone. They are ordinary, everyday events, that somehow caused some great and horrible consequence. It also helps set up a certain feeling of suspense.

    The last line

    Yet I will not attempt to expound them.
    Is another plea that the reader take him at his word. He is assuring us, that he is going to tell the story just as it happened, that nothing he is about to say is an embellishment of the truth.

    Hereafter, perhaps, some intellect may be found which will reduce my phantasm to the common-place --some intellect more calm, more logical, and far less excitable than my own, which will perceive, in the circumstances I detail with awe, nothing more than an ordinary succession of very natural causes and effects.
    Here he is seeking some validation, some hope, that perhaps the events which occurred truly were not so horrible as he thinks them to be, that perhaps it is only his nerves which make them seem so bad. This could be the plea of his conscious sense we already know this is a death bed confessional, something of which he does feel guilt about. Perhaps he is seeking absolution from the reader.

    But the mention of his excitable nerves, and his suggestion that he himself is not very logical might suggest that we are not dealing with a very reliable narrator after all.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  12. #132
    Fan of Norman, Poe, Doyle LC_Lancer's Avatar
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    I have looked at this passage without the benefit of reading Dark Muse posting except to see where she stopped writing. I see it was the first paragraph.
    The Black Cat by Edgar Allan Poe (1843)
    FOR the most wild, yet most homely narrative which I am about to pen, I neither expect nor solicit belief. Mad indeed would I be to expect it, in a case where my very senses reject their own evidence. Yet, mad am I not--and very surely do I not dream.
    The narrator uses the term “Mad” to place us in doubt if we can trust him. It is said that people who question their sanity are actually sane, but this narrator does not question it. He states that he is not “Mad” thus he might in fact be “Mad”. However he does allow that some readers will disbelieve any of the events.


    The Black Cat by Edgar Allan Poe (1843)
    But to-morrow I die, and to-day I would unburden my soul.
    This is the very first mention of death, but no further details at this time. The reader is placed on noticed that something has lead the narrator to this tragic point. I was left wondering if he meant he was ill (possible linked to ‘Madness’), contemplating suicide, or punishment.

    The Black Cat by Edgar Allan Poe (1843)
    My immediate purpose is to place before the world, plainly, succinctly, and without comment, a series of mere household events.
    The narrator is trying to tell of the events without showing emotion and he succeeds mostly. He tries to place the reader at ease about the narrative to come by reducing the events to something that take place anywhere. One of the ways Poe accomplished this was not to have any mention the setting’s place or time anywhere within the story. That makes me curious as to if the events have happened again. And it makes me concerned that it could happen again. I am already, at this point in the story, at the edge of my seat.

    The Black Cat by Edgar Allan Poe (1843)
    In their consequences, these events have terrified--have tortured--have destroyed me.
    I have loved this sentence since first reading it. I even began to write like this until broken by my English teacher in High School. When I speak off the cuff, I tend to speak like this sentence. Enough about me, the sentence works because it shows the mind of the narrator; he is editing and adding to the narrative as he is writing. I love the way each sequential verb is worse than the one before it. This could indicate that he did not have to proofread it before death.

    The Black Cat by Edgar Allan Poe (1843)
    Yet I will not attempt to expound them. To me, they have presented little but Horror--to many they will seem less terrible than baroques.
    The narrator is promising here that he will not attempt to give too many details or expand the narrative beyond the details because he still wants history to judge the events that have caused his distress. He is warning the readings that the events will seem less horrific than the bizarre events he lived through.

    The Black Cat by Edgar Allan Poe (1843)
    Hereafter, perhaps, some intellect may be found which will reduce my phantasm to the commonplace--some intellect more calm, more logical, and far less excitable than my own, which will perceive, in the circumstances I detail with awe, nothing more than an ordinary succession of very natural causes and effects.
    The narrator is still disturbed by the events (or just disturbed). I noticed here that he wanted to write of the events that took place so people could read it later and possible come to some sort of conclusion (such as us on this board). This is the same way historians have done it: try to look at events without the emotions of the moment to analyze the meaning and causes of the event.
    LC Lancer
    ____________________________________________
    My breast her shield in wintry weather-
    And when the friendly sunshine smil'd,
    And she would mark the opening skies,
    I saw no Heaven- but in her eyes.

    Tamerlane

  13. #133
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    The narrator uses the term “Mad” to place us in doubt if we can trust him. It is said that people who question their sanity are actually sane, but this narrator does not question it. He states that he is not “Mad” thus he might in fact be “Mad”. However he does allow that some readers will disbelieve any of the events.
    Yes that is quite true, the very fact that he declares he is not mad, could be an indicator that just the oppisite might be true. As it is unatural within itself for a person to declare to another that they are not mad, unless they know they are indeed about to sound quite crazy and are seeking some validation.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    This is the very first mention of death, but no further details at this time. The reader is placed on noticed that something has lead the narrator to this tragic point. I was left wondering if he meant he was ill (possible linked to ‘Madness’), contemplating suicide, or punishment.
    That is a good point, here the mention of his death could be linked to some mental illness as at this point we are given no information about the reason and cause for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    I have loved this sentence since first reading it. I even began to write like this until broken by my English teacher in High School. When I speak off the cuff, I tend to speak like this sentence. Enough about me, the sentence works because it shows the mind of the narrator; he is editing and adding to the narrative as he is writing. I love the way each sequential verb is worse than the one before it. This could indicate that he did not have to proofread it before death.
    You should not let other people tell you how you should or should not write. There are all sorts of creative things going on with writing.

    But onward to the story, I think this secentence can also show a progression in growing emotion with the recollection of the events. As it gradually increases to something even worse, perhaps it is the memory of what happend starting to extite him.

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    The narrator is still disturbed by the events (or just disturbed). I noticed here that he wanted to write of the events that took place so people could read it later and possible come to some sort of conclusion (such as us on this board). This is the same way historians have done it: try to look at events without the emotions of the moment to analyze the meaning and causes of the event.
    Yes that is true, but in spite of what he tells us, considering he is the one telling us of events that have acutally happend to him, can we really trust he will be able to keep his emotions out of it. Even a "normal" person would have difficulty telling a personal story without emotion, let alone someone who now has quesionable sanity.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  14. #134
    Fan of Norman, Poe, Doyle LC_Lancer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/12/08 at 06:05 PM
    The reliability or unreliability of a narrator is almost always important in a Poe story, because the stories are really quite fantastic, there needs to be a certain trust of the person telling these events to believe they actually have occurred. Also when the story is being recounted (as a past event, or as it is happening) and the state the narrator is in during the telling also usually plays an important role in the story itself.
    The state the narrator is in when he wrote it is also important.

    +++

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/12/08 at 06:05 PM
    First of all, interesting use of both "wild" and "homely" he uses both these contradictory words to describe the tale he is about to tell.
    I took it to mean that even though it might be wild, the story still has a basis in innocence or that since everyone has a place to feel at home, then he is toying with the idea that all is safe until that one moment when it changes forever.

    +++

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/12/08 at 06:05 PM
    This helps set up a greater feeling of fear in the reader. For it is suggesting the things which he is about to tell us, is something which could happen to anyone. They are ordinary, everyday events, that somehow caused some great and horrible consequence. It also helps set up a certain feeling of suspense.
    This is also the second time he used the term ‘home’ within four sentences. I think it is to ground the reader in a “certain” innocence to be played off later.

    +++

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/12/08 at 06:05 PM
    Here he is seeking some validation, some hope, that perhaps the events which occurred truly were not so horrible as he thinks them to be, that perhaps it is only his nerves which make them seem so bad. This could be the plea of his conscious sense we already know this is a death bed confessional, something of which he does feel guilt about. Perhaps he is seeking absolution from the reader.
    The narrator may simply want to warn against the things that got him into the mess and ultimately paying with his life.
    On second thought, I think it is a way to connect the reader to the story. The reader will read the events and instead of just placing the story down dispassionately, these lines help the reader dig a little deeper because they will be looking for the “cause and effect” that he mentioned.

    +++

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/12/08 at 06:05 PM
    But the mention of his excitable nerves, and his suggestion that he himself is not very logical might suggest that we are not dealing with a very reliable narrator after all.
    I saw it as a way to cover some details that might have been left out. The narrator indicates his “excitable nerves” to ask the reader’s forgiveness at the missing details the narrator might have not included. Maybe another indication he did not have time to proofread it.
    ***************

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/13/08 at 11:51 AM
    You should not let other people tell you how you should or should not write. There are all sorts of creative things going on with writing.
    I only did it because she was the teacher and had control of the grade. I wrote the way she taught to get the better grade in class. I just did not switch back after leaving her class. There is some validly in both her instance and your comment. I am thinking of trying one of your exercise and see if it will be there when I write creatively.

    +++

    Originally Posted by Dark Muse on 10/13/08 at 11:51 AM
    But onward to the story, I think this secentence can also show a progression in growing emotion with the recollection of the events. As it gradually increases to something even worse, perhaps it is the memory of what happend starting to extite him.
    Yes, I agree. You said it better than I did.
    LC Lancer
    ____________________________________________
    My breast her shield in wintry weather-
    And when the friendly sunshine smil'd,
    And she would mark the opening skies,
    I saw no Heaven- but in her eyes.

    Tamerlane

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    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    I took it to mean that even though it might be wild, the story still has a basis in innocence or that since everyone has a place to feel at home, then he is toying with the idea that all is safe until that one moment when it changes forever.
    Yes, that is a good point. As this story is not going to be as surreal as Ligeia was, there is some base in reality. As well instead of taking place in some far away place, it takes place within a domestic everyday sort of situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    This is also the second time he used the term ‘home’ within four sentences. I think it is to ground the reader in a “certain” innocence to be played off later.
    Yes, that is a gooe way to put it. Everything does start out "innocently" enough and progresses from there.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    The narrator may simply want to warn against the things that got him into the mess and ultimately paying with his life.
    On second thought, I think it is a way to connect the reader to the story. The reader will read the events and instead of just placing the story down dispassionately, these lines help the reader dig a little deeper because they will be looking for the “cause and effect” that he mentioned.
    I like the warning idea, sense he writing his as a sort of confessional, and we know that he is about to die, and the in which he does say that it destoryed his life, we can presume the events he tells may be related to his death, so it could be meant to perhaps prevent others from suffering so.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    I saw it as a way to cover some details that might have been left out. The narrator indicates his “excitable nerves” to ask the reader’s forgiveness at the missing details the narrator might have not included. Maybe another indication he did not have time to proofread it.
    Yes, that could be as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Lancer View Post
    I only did it because she was the teacher and had control of the grade. I wrote the way she taught to get the better grade in class. I just did not switch back after leaving her class. There is some validly in both her instance and your comment. I am thinking of trying one of your exercise and see if it will be there when I write creatively.
    Ahh yes, I can understand that.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

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