Poetry Bookclub 2

[Virgil]

Ok here's my vote:

First: Montale
Second: Plath
Third: Tate

[Jozanny]

Ok here's my vote:

First: Montale
Second: Plath
Third: Tate

I know I am asking for trouble, but how can such a discerning reader like yourself prefer Plath before Tate Virgil? I have only recently discovered the man, but my poet's nose certainly knows the difference between a Pinto and a Thoroughbred.

[Virgil]

I know I am asking for trouble, but how can such a discerning reader like yourself prefer Plath before Tate Virgil? I have only recently discovered the man, but my poet's nose certainly knows the difference between a Pinto and a Thoroughbred.

I probably have read Tate somewhere but I can't remember any of his work. I didn't say that I prefered Plath over anyone. I just said her work was not bad. Plus I picked Plath second because it would be a fiesty discussion.

[Jozanny]

I probably have read Tate somewhere but I can't remember any of his work. I didn't say that I prefered Plath over anyone. I just said her work was not bad. Plus I picked Plath second because it would be a fiesty discussion.

And here I thought you and I had both learned a thing or two about thriving on conflict.

Seriously, Plath is so close to Bukowski in motivational impetus that your defense surprises me. JBI's astute objections aside, from what I know of the literary criticism out there, her reputation is in decline, deservedly, but I will make that case later.

[quasimodo1]

First let me admit my vote: Tate (1), McGuckian (2), Montale (3). Members...Bitterfly, Il Penseroso, Petrarch's Love, Quark, Sofia 82, Epistemophile, Dapper Drake, Mortalterror and Kafka's Crow have not gone to the poll.

[stlukesguild]

I picked Plath second because it would be a fiesty discussion.

Perhaps... If JBI or I... or JoZ were to participate it might be more along the line of a feeding frenzy.

[quasimodo1]

Right now, unless some of the slacker members vote, (I mean that respectfully), we are in a dead heat for first...Montale and Tate. The illustrious and embattled Plath is third or second.

[Virgil]

Seriously, Plath is so close to Bukowski in motivational impetus that your defense surprises me.

No I disagree with that. She may be sensational like Bukowski but that's neither here nor there. Shakespeare was sensational. Bukowski's use of language is like a buffoon; Plath has a fine writing voice and really stresses the language for tension. I agree she can be juvinile at times, but she did not fully mature as a writer. She was young. But sometimes she hits it.

JBI's astute objections aside, from what I know of the literary criticism out there, her reputation is in decline, deservedly, but I will make that case later.

Well, evaluations go up and down. All I'm saying is she belongs in the canon of American poetry of the post WWII era. Hemingway's reputation goes up and down and he's still in the canon.

[Jozanny]

Right now, unless some of the slacker members vote, (I mean that respectfully), we are in a dead heat for first...Montale and Tate. The illustrious and embattled Plath is third or second.

I have faith that Petrarch Love's discrimination will save us from disaster.

[stlukesguild]

I have faith that Petrarch Love's discrimination will save us from disaster.

Yes... but then there's always MortalTerror who may just vote for Plath simply because JBI and I have expressed a dislike for her work.

[quasimodo1]

More Sonnets At Christmas
by Allen Tate

(1942)

To Denis Devlin


I


Again the native hour lets down the locks
Uncombed and black, but gray the bobbing beard;
Ten years ago His eyes, fierce shuttlecocks,
Pierced the close net of what I failed: I feared
The belly-cold, the grave-clout, that betrayed
Me dithering in the drift of cordial seas;
Ten years are time enough to be dismayed
By mummy Christ, head crammed between his knees.


Suppose I take an arrogant bomber, stroke
By stroke, up to the frazzled sun to hear
Sun-ghostlings whisper: Yes, the capital yoke—
Remove it and there’s not a ghost to fear
This crucial day, whose decapitate joke
Languidly winds into the inner ear.



II


The day’s at end and there’s nowhere to go,
Draw to the fire, even this fire is dying;
Get up and once again politely lying
Invite the ladies toward the mistletoe
With greedy eyes that stare like an old crow.
How pleasantly the holly wreaths did hang
And how stuffed Santa did his reindeer clang
Above the golden oaken mantel, years ago!



Then hang this picture for a calendar,
As sheep for goat, and pray most fixedly
For the cold martial progress of your star,
With thoughts of commerce and society,
Well-milked Chinese, Negroes who cannot sing,
The Huns gelded and feeding in a ring.



III


Give me this day a faith not personal
As follows: The American people fully armed
With assurance policies, righteous and harmed,
Battle the world of which they’re not at all.
That lying boy of ten who stood in the hall,
His hat in hand (thus by his father charmed:
“You may be President”), was not alarmed
Nor even left uneasy by his fall.



Nobody said that he could be a plumber,
Carpenter, clerk, bus-driver, bombardier;
Let little boys go into violent slumber,
Aegean squall and squalor where their fear
Is of an enemy in remote oceans
Unstalked by Christ: these are the better notions.
{excerpt}

[JBI]

I have faith that Petrarch Love's discrimination will save us from disaster.

Yes... but then there's always MortalTerror who may just vote for Plath simply because JBI and I have expressed a dislike for her work.

If Petrarch votes Montale or Tate though, Plath cannot win unless there are other voters.

[Dark Muse]

I will pull for Montale between those two. Never read any of his work but I am not much of a fan of Tate. I suppose some of his stuff is somewhat interesting but all in all don't care for him.

[Petrarch's Love]

I have faith that Petrarch Love's discrimination will save us from disaster.

Goodness! My vote seems to unexpectedly have become a topic of discussion. I could become corrupted by this unexpected power and perversely vote Plath. Of course, that might mean I would have to discuss her work, which, I'm not particularly tempted by. Thus my vote stands:

1. Montale
2. Bishop
3. Tate

[quasimodo1]

update on the vote: Paz=1.00/ Akhmatova=0.50/ Montale=3.66/ McGuckian=0.50/ Bishop=1.33/ Plath=2.00/ Tate=2.66. Somebody get another registered voter out here. The poet in the lead at midnight will win the day. Zarathustra thus spake.