Poetry Bookclub 2

[Dark Muse]

With all his talk about birds, particuarly herons and water I thought he may have grown up near the water somewhere. He does have a poem called Child On Top of a Greenhouse

[quasimodo1]

One of the poets Roethke read while institutionalized was "that sweet man John Clare.":

FIRST LOVE

I ne’er was struck before that hour
With love so sudden and so sweet,
Her face it bloomed like a sweet flower
And stole my heart away complete.


My face turned pale as deadly pale,
My legs refused to walk away,
And when she looked, what could I ail?
My life and all seemed turned to clay.


And then my blood rushed to my face
And took my eyesight quite away,
The trees and bushes round the place
Seemed midnight at noonday.


I could not see a single thing,
Words from my eyes did start—
They spoke as chords do from the string,
And blood burnt round my heart.


Are flowers the winter’s choice?
Is love’s bed always snow?
She seemed to hear my silent voice,
I never saw so sweet a face
As that I stood before.
My heart has left its dwelling-place
And can return no more.

[Dark Muse]

Now that it seems like I Knew A Woman is wrapping up, Quasi said I could pick the next poem for disuccion. I was really struck by the poem Genesis. It is not a very long poem, but out of all I have read so far, something about it just really sticks out in my mind the most.

[Kafka's Crow]

Ok! Let's do it stanza by stanza.

Genesis
This elemental force
Was wrested from the sun;
A river's leaping source
Is locked in narrow bone.

An utterly biblical title and an utterly scientific opening! What's going on here? The universal force is channelized into creating a small planet (the narrow bone). I am amazed by the six syllables. I think only a couple of lines or three in the whole poem are written in less than six syllabus and none exceeds six. Did he rest on the seventh? The poem is being created as well as the universe.

[Dark Muse]

Yes it is quite interesting that he choose the word Genisis as the titile of this poem, though the poem is riddled with biblical references, there is also something very "natural" about it.

This elemental force

This is a great opeening line. It enstnatly grabbed my attention in my first reading of the poem, and it never fails to effect me and I have read this poem over several times now. It does open the poem with a "bang" I think.

Was wrested from the sun

I think this is an interesting line. It is the idea of some struggle, a conflict of energy, a pushing and pulling force. It is a very scientific take on creation coupled with the title of the poem.

A river's leaping source
Is locked in narrow bone

Bones seem to come up a lot in Roethke's poems. I think the mention of the river, has a sort of calming effected compared with the violence of the first two lines. Though I was not sure what to make of the "narrow bone"

[Kafka's Crow]

Is this 'river' with a 'leaping source' the universal time and 'narrow bone' is the microcosmic or the earthly time, days and nights, hours, months and years, what Wordsworth calls 'earth's diurnal course'. I can be wrong here but I think he is talking about the creation of time.

[Bitterfly]

I think this is an interesting line. It is the idea of some struggle, a conflict of energy, a pushing and pulling force. It is a very scientific take on creation coupled with the title of the poem.

Why do you think the idea of conflict is "scientific"? I see strife more as "pre-scientific"(as in Greek cosmogonies, or in Ovid's account of Creation). The presence of natural elements (fire, water, which oppose each other) also make me think that. And "wrested from the sun" strangely reminds me of Prometheus...

Bones seem to come up a lot in Roethke's poems. I think the mention of the river, has a sort of calming effected compared with the violence of the first two lines. Though I was not sure what to make of the "narrow bone"

The very regular rhythm (perfect iambic trimeters) also contributes to the calming effect (and contrasts with the violence of the beginning), I find.

If I knew what the rest of the poem was about (didn't find it on the net), it would be easier for me to understand, I think, but the "narrow bone" gives me the impression that all that energy is being poured into man, there to be bounded ("locked").

[Dark Muse]

Is this 'river' with a 'leaping source' the universal time and 'narrow bone' is the microcosmic or the earthly time, days and nights, hours, months and years, what Wordsworth calls 'earth's diurnal course'. I can be wrong here but I think he is talking about the creation of time.

Ahh yes, that does make sense.

[Dark Muse]

Why do you think the idea of conflict is "scientific"? I see strife more as "pre-scientific"(as in Greek cosmogonies, or in Ovid's account of Creation). The presence of natural elements (fire, water, which oppose each other) also make me think that. And "wrested from the sun" strangely reminds me of Prometheus...

Though the poem might be touched with elements of mythology, it seems to me, that inspite of the title of the poem. At least those first opening lines seems to refelct more the idea of the "Big Bang" rather than Biblical Creation. The elements expressed within the poem contradict "Geneisis"

[quasimodo1]

Kafka's Crow will forgive me for jumping to the last stanza... "A pearl within the brain,
Secretion of the sense;
Around a central grain
New meaning grows immense." My take on this poem is much more personal, personal for Roethke that is. All the references come together if he is writing of his own unique source for a poem. How "meaning grow immense" once his mind has created that "seed" or concept.

[Bitterfly]

Though the poem might be touched with elements of mythology, it seems to me, that inspite of the title of the poem. At least those first opening lines seems to refelct more the idea of the "Big Bang" rather than Biblical Creation. The elements expressed within the poem contradict "Geneisis"

Ah, Ok, I hadn't understood that that was what you were emphasizing. Pretty interesting idea!

Erm, I'd love to see the rest of the poem, now my curiosity has been sparked!

[Dark Muse]

I could not find it anywhere online, so I just PMed it to you, sense for legal reasons I cannot post it in its enterity here.

[Bitterfly]

Thanks a ton!
Now that I can see the whole poem, the meaning is a tad clearer!

First stanza: Creative forces: sun, water, "source" (reminiscent of the river in the garden of Eden). There's strife - as for all creative activity. The "narrow bone" has "locked" the force in - that's perhaps why it threatens to break out again in the second stanza?

Second stanza: I can understand the link with Genesis at least, now - there's a reference to the fruit of the garden of Eden. What's interesting is that it's not exactly the "fruit of good" in the Bible, is it? Isn't it rather the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? And why is the "wisdom" (positive connotations) associated with "floods" and "invades" (pejorative, the flood which came to punish mankind); likened to an almost destructive force ("swells", "burst"). Is creation both beneficial and destructive? One has the impression this force is going to break, to burst the mind that harbours it.

Third stanza: something hidden and secretive ("pearl", "secretion" which contains the word "secret") which you therefore have to go and look for? How come it hasn't burst out? It "grows immense" yet is still "within". Maybe the mind has found a way to control the elemental force of the beginning. More intellectual vocabulary (sense", "meaning", "brain" rather than "mind").
I find this stanza a bit of a letdown, actually...

[Dark Muse]

This wisdom floods the mind,
invades quiescent blood;
a seed that swells the rind
to burst the fruit of good

The second stanza is quite interesting. I think the frist two lines

This wisdom floods the mind,
invades quiescent blood;

Could be linked to poetic creativity and its effect upon a person. The way in which it says "wisdom floods the mind" from what information I have gleamed about Roethke by reading the other posts here, and his struggles with sanity, I think this line is quite fitting. It is something that comes overwhelming upon a person.

As I found the second line here

invades quiescent blood

To be quite interesting. I admit I had to look up quiescent

marked by inactivity or repose : tranquilly at rest

Now this is interesting, when pared with the line "invade" it seems to me to suggest one who is at rest, suddnely being sparked into activity again. It also toys with the early ideas of chaos seen in the first stanza.

a seed that swells the rind
to burst the fruit of good

These lines, paricuarly the mention of the seed that swells and than bursts into fruit, I could not help but to have the imagery of a woman impregnated, which would tie into ideas of creation.

[Virgil]

I have to apologize. I was away on a business trip and could not get an internet connection. I need to catch up.