D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[Janine]

Maybe, in asking him to come to their home to christen the child, this being not very usual or accepted, they also asked him to be a godfather to sort of get him to comply with coming to the house to perform this sacred rite. He seems to be the type to be easily flattered or feel honored and would have easier accepted their request.

[Dark Muse]

Yes that could be. I got the impression that by his constnatly being nervous or "frightend" that perhaps he was not completely comftrable with the situation and perhaps did not really approve of the family.

[Virgil]

It would have to be the pastor. Maybe it's a local custom.

[Dark Muse]

Maybe it was something common in that period of time

[Janine]

When I reviewed this part, I did not see it as distracting at all. The story does not have a lot of plot and I think suddenly, to shift our attention to the brother, makes sense. It breaks into this very emotional scene, as the youngest daughter sees it and yet brings out her full anger, at both him, the parson and the emotional aspect of this scene, which she is witnessing which revolves around her own past actions.

Here is the passage again:

Just then heavy footsteps were heard coming up the path, ceasing at the window. The young mother, glancing up, saw her brother, black in his pit dirt, grinning in through the panes. His red mouth curved in a sneer; his fair hair shone above his blackened skin. He caught the eye of his sister and grinned. Then his black face disappeared. He had gone on into the kitchen. The girl with the child sat still and anger filled her heart. She herself hated now the praying clergyman and the whole emotional business; she hated her brother bitterly. In anger and bondage she sat and listened.

Those last lines are the ones that most spoke to me "She herself hated now the praying clergyman and the whole emotional business; she hated her brother bitterly. In anger and bondage she sat and listened."

By the brother breaking in so rudely, it breaks up the emotion and turns the story a different direction. The tone now changes back to one of anxiety, and resentment, so that the peaceful scene of the baby actually being christened (even the baby is quiet), suddenly reverts back to the antagonism that plagued the family and parson in the beginning of the story. During the christening all kneel, except the young mother, who is said to bend over her child. When the brother enters the scene, he looks directly at her and she alone sees him first through the glass and then all hear his commotion in the kitchen and know of his presense.

[Dark Muse]

I have to admit, though the brother was quite annoying, in someways I could not help but to find him somewhat amusing. Though I know this was not the intent, his character was like comic releif to me, and made me kind of laugh.

[Janine]

Yes, he was rather devious and annoying, but someone in a strange way perhaps amusing. Still I don't think the sister's would have viewed his little song in that light. He is being disrespectful and intrusive, during what should be a serious and holy ceremony..

Here is the next part of the text:

Suddenly her father began to pray. His familiar, loud, rambling voice made her shut herself up and become even insentient. Folks said his mind was weakening. She believed it to be true, and kept herself always disconnected from him.

"We ask Thee, Lord," the old man cried, "to look after this childt. Fatherless he is. But what does the earthly father matter before Thee? The childt is Thine, he is Thy childt. Lord, what father has a man but Thee? Lord, when a man says he is a father, he is wrong from the first word. For Thou art the Father, Lord. Lord, take away from us the conceit that our children are ours. Lord, Thou art Father of this childt as is fatherless here. O God, Thou bring him up. For I have stood between Thee and my children; I've had my way with them, Lord; I've stood between Thee and my children; I've cut 'em off from Thee because they were mine. And they've grown twisted, because of me. Who is their father, Lord, but Thee? But I put myself in the way, they've been plants under a stone, because of me. Lord, if it hadn't been for me, they might ha' been trees in the sunshine. Let me own it, Lord, I've done 'em mischief. It could ha' been better if they'd never known no father. No man is a father, Lord: only Thou art. They can never grow beyond Thee, but I hampered them. Lift 'em up again, and undo what I've done to my children. And let this young childt be like a willow tree beside the waters, with no father but Thee, O God. Aye an' I wish it had been so with my children, that they'd had no father but Thee. For I've been like a stone upon them, and they rise up and curse me in their wickedness. But let me go, an' lift Thou them up, Lord . . ."

[Dark Muse]

This was an interesting speech by the father, in which he is blaming himself for the way his children now act. In a way in doing so he is taking the responsibility for their neglect of him away from them. He is forgiving them of their treatment to him, by putting it upon his shoulders, and saying it is because of him that they are now so corrupt. He does not seem to harbor any true bitter feelings towards them in this speech.

He does seem to truly wish the best for them, as well it seems he sees within the child a hope that the boy might have a better life or a chance, though I do not see how the child could turn out any differently under Emma and Bertha.

Considering the way the women in the house act toward the father, and the fact that the father of Emma's baby is completely excluded from the child's life, perhaps it is understnable why the brohter might behave in the way he does, I can imagine he hardly gets treated any better by the women, as they do not even treat each other well. I can understand him being bitter toward his sisters, as I cannot see them having any resepct for him.

[Janine]

This was an interesting speech by the father, in which he is blaming himself for the way his children now act. In a way in doing so he is taking the responsibility for their neglect of him away from them. He is forgiving them of their treatment to him, by putting it upon his shoulders, and saying it is because of him that they are now so corrupt. He does not seem to harbor any true bitter feelings towards them in this speech.

Dark Muse, glad to see you comment, so we can move along towards the ending. I agree, it as an interesting speech by the father and he did seem to be putting the blame finally upon himself. I felt sorry for him and felt he was so downtrodden by then it seemed the only thing he knew to do. He was trying to alleviate the tension and in actuality it only made things worse. I don't know if I felt he was feeling also totally sorry for himself in stating all of these things and his blame as to the way the family has turned out. I suppose you are right, he is trying in his own way to forgive them for their abuse of himself and maybe each other. Right - he does not say this in a bitter tone but one of being resigned to the position he has fallen into. It so sad to me to hear him go on like this.

He does seem to truly wish the best for them, as well it seems he sees within the child a hope that the boy might have a better life or a chance, though I do not see how the child could turn out any differently under Emma and Bertha.

I will have to review that part. I don't recall him mentioning the child but I guess it is just my failure right now of memory. I think he asks for the child to be blessed. Yes, maybe the child is his only hope for a better future, when he is gone.

Considering the way the women in the house act toward the father, and the fact that the father of Emma's baby is completely excluded from the child's life, perhaps it is understnable why the brohter might behave in the way he does, I can imagine he hardly gets treated any better by the women, as they do not even treat each other well. I can understand him being bitter toward his sisters, as I cannot see them having any resepct for him.

Wait a minute. How can you assume the mother is completely excluded from the child's life? I don't quite see it that extreme. She is nursing the child and said she felt a burning love for him, even though he is a symbol of her wrong- doing.

I would not imagine the son would be treated any better and he is surrounded by women and probably has built up his own defenses, don't you think. He is merely striking out at all of them in the only way he knows how to be. He does not directly criticise them but used the little song to make his scathing demeaning point. Ironic also that the song is a baby/child song, one commonly played with them.

[Dark Muse]

Dark Muse, I will have to review that part. I don't recall him mentioning the child but I guess it is just my failure right now of memory. I think he asks for the child to be blessed. Yes, maybe the child is his only hope for a better future, when he is gone.

Well in his speach he implies the child will be better off becasue it will only have its heavenly father, and not be corrupted by the pride of a mortal father.

[Wait a minute. How can you assume the mother is completely excluded from the child's life? I don't quite see it that extreme. She is nursing the child and said she felt a burning love for him, even though he is a symbol of her wrong- doing.

I said the child's father is completely excludeded

and the fact that the father of Emma's baby is completely excluded from the child's life,

[Janine]

Well in his speach he implies the child will be better off becasue it will only have its heavenly father, and not be corrupted by the pride of a mortal father.

Ok, I get it now. I did not consider that part. You are right.

I said the child's father is completely excludeded

Sorry, I mistook that for the mother.

[Virgil]

Hey gals, I was on a business trip and cold not get onto the internet. I have a lot of catching up to do.

[Dark Muse]

Welcome back

[Janine]

Virgil, welcome back; glad you are home safely. We are almost done this story, but can hold up, until you post some more comments. I only have one more segment of text to post and hope to wrap this one up by the end of Sept. I need that October break we all discussed.

[Virgil]

If there is any doubt that the paternity of the child is important to the story, then the father's speech should relieve one of that doubt. Notice how everything in the speech is about fatherhood:

"We ask Thee, Lord," the old man cried, "to look after this childt. Fatherless he is. But what does the earthly father matter before Thee? The childt is Thine, he is Thy childt. Lord, what father has a man but Thee? Lord, when a man says he is a father, he is wrong from the first word. For Thou art the Father, Lord. Lord, take away from us the conceit that our children are ours. Lord, Thou art Father of this childt as is fatherless here. O God, Thou bring him up. For I have stood between Thee and my children; I've had my way with them, Lord; I've stood between Thee and my children; I've cut 'em off from Thee because they were mine. And they've grown twisted, because of me. Who is their father, Lord, but Thee? But I put myself in the way, they've been plants under a stone, because of me. Lord, if it hadn't been for me, they might ha' been trees in the sunshine. Let me own it, Lord, I've done 'em mischief. It could ha' been better if they'd never known no father. No man is a father, Lord: only Thou art. They can never grow beyond Thee, but I hampered them. Lift 'em up again, and undo what I've done to my children. And let this young childt be like a willow tree beside the waters, with no father but Thee, O God. Aye an' I wish it had been so with my children, that they'd had no father but Thee. For I've been like a stone upon them, and they rise up and curse me in their wickedness. But let me go, an' lift Thou them up, Lord . . ."

"We ask Thee, Lord," the old man cried, "to look after this childt. Fatherless he is.

And so I think this is the central question of the novel. A fatherless child before God. What is this story about but a bastard child getting babtized. How is the child going to get on?

But what does the earthly father matter before Thee? The childt is Thine, he is Thy childt. Lord, what father has a man but Thee? Lord, when a man says he is a father, he is wrong from the first word. For Thou art the Father, Lord. Lord, take away from us the conceit that our children are ours. Lord, Thou art Father of this childt as is fatherless here. O God, Thou bring him up.

This is certainly more inspirationaly religious than the pastor's speech. It links the father with religious elements.

For I have stood between Thee and my children; I've had my way with them, Lord; I've stood between Thee and my children; I've cut 'em off from Thee because they were mine. And they've grown twisted, because of me.

Yes he takes the blame for the daughters, but notice the rationale, because he has cut them off from God.

Who is their father, Lord, but Thee? But I put myself in the way, they've been plants under a stone, because of me. Lord, if it hadn't been for me, they might ha' been trees in the sunshine. Let me own it, Lord, I've done 'em mischief. It could ha' been better if they'd never known no father. No man is a father, Lord: only Thou art. They can never grow beyond Thee, but I hampered them. Lift 'em up again, and undo what I've done to my children. And let this young childt be like a willow tree beside the waters, with no father but Thee, O God. Aye an' I wish it had been so with my children, that they'd had no father but Thee. For I've been like a stone upon them, and they rise up and curse me in their wickedness. But let me go, an' lift Thou them up, Lord . . ."

And notice that metaphors. By cutting the daughters off they have grown twisted and could have grown as "trees in the sunshine," and by freeing the child he will be like a " willow tree beside the waters." The tree metaphor is a variation of the recurring Lawrentian flower imagery of perfect life.

So is it a good thing then that the child is fatherless? Or is this ironic?