Don Quixote Reading Group

[J.D.]

I'm still up for talking about Quixote. I read it this summer, along with a lengthy biography about Cervantes. What I found most interesting is that everyone who thought Don Quixote was mad eventually took part in his fantasy out of his or her own free will--whether it was for a laugh, like the Duke and Duchess, or to cure Quixote, which was the goal of the barber, priest, and bachelor. It was as if they, too, wished this world of knight-errantry and chivalry really existed, as if they, too, wanted to take part in it subconsciously and so used Quixote as an excuse to do so.

As for himself, he wasn't crazy at all in part two, in my opinion. There are a couple of points that confirm this, hints that he consciously upholds the fantasy. The bottom line is this: He simply refused to give in to the fact that the world was what it was--he figured if he kept acting like his world existed, he could will it to be--and, if you look at how the other characters fall into his world, he was right. I admire him because he didn't let the fact that the world couldn't uphold its end of the bargain affect what he did with his life--at least until the end. The message is that just because there is a sad, cruel, corrupt world around us doesn't mean we have to become sad, cruel, or corrupt.

The other characters begin to learn this from Don Quixote. Consider the end of the book, when Quixote is dying. The priest, the barber, and the bachelor all call him Don Quixote again to try to coax the old enthusiasm out of him. I would argue they do this not only to try to help him fight illness, but because they too realize they don't actually want Don Quixote to end--despite all they've done to "cure him". They, too, wish that the world could be based on principles, that there were such things as true heroes. They want Don Quixote back.

Some might say Don Quixote was a fool who died of his own unrealistic expectations. I say it was the world's fault; Don Quixote was noble and upstanding, brave and wise. The world let Don Quixote down by failing to reach its potential.

[Gracewings]

I finally finished Don Quixote!

I very much enjoyed your post, JD, especially this:

Some might say Don Quixote was a fool who died of his own unrealistic expectations. I say it was the world's fault; Don Quixote was noble and upstanding, brave and wise. The world let Don Quixote down by failing to reach its potential.

[grace86]

I am glad you finished Don Quixote, Gracewings. Sometimes it takes awhile but I hope it was definitely worth the read for you.

Yes, J.D. your post was fantastic and I agree with your observations fully. He didn't let the world get him down on what he wanted to do. Quixote definitely made the best with what he had and made his world a wonderful place to live. I think what happened also was that maybe those around Don Quixote began to enjoy his world and would miss it when it was gone. He grasped at something they perhaps couldn't grasp on their own. Some people went to such extreme lengths to pretend his world existed, but it was definitely real to Don Quixote himself.

It was nice to see new posts here.

[Gracewings]

I am glad you finished Don Quixote, Gracewings. Sometimes it takes awhile but I hope it was definitely worth the read for you.

It definitely was worth my time. I feel very fortunate that I had the Edith Grossman translation. It was easy to keep reading through the text with the footnotes to help with the many Latin phrases; also, it was amazing how well she translated little rhyming poems and Sancho's many mix-ups. For instance, you can see this section in Google books: the passage starts near the bottom of p. 497 with:

"Convinced is what you mean, Sancho..."

and ends with:

"I'll bet," said Sancho, "you knew what I was saying and understood me from the beginning, but wanted to mix me up so you could hear me make another two hundred mistakes."

That seems to set the tone for the latter part of the book when they are with the Duke and Duchess who seem to delight in every aspect of their characters. It was somewhat unsettling though that they went to such trouble to set them up while also appearing to genuinely care for the two.

[Basil Valentine]

I read this earlier this year (the Grossman version) having had it sitting on a shelf for some time. I must admit, the sheer size of it intimidated me a bit, but once I started it I found it extremely easy to read. I had intended to read the first half, then take a break but ended up reading right through as I enjoyed it so much. I would echo the comment about how well Grossman translated the many lingual puns, rhymes and so on - if anything the translation was so good it made the book seem too modern and easy to read!

I've always been interested in chivalric literature (I even slogged my way through Von Eschenbach's Parzival last year) and this probably helped propel me through the heavier parts.

I would heartily recommend it to anyone thinking about reading it.

[grace86]

That seems to set the tone for the latter part of the book when they are with the Duke and Duchess who seem to delight in every aspect of their characters. It was somewhat unsettling though that they went to such trouble to set them up while also appearing to genuinely care for the two.

Perhaps the Duke and Duchess really did care for the two and so fed into their adventures? But another aspect could be that they really did care for them because of the enjoyment Don Quixote and Sancho brought to their lives?

Hmm...maybe they aided in their adventures because the Duke and Duchess could still enjoy the "insanity" of it all without having to be seen as insane themselves? I don't know, it is confusing, I will admit that much. But then I ask these questions of most the characters in the book.

I will have to check out the Grossman translation one of these days. I read the Penguin edition and so it had a different translator which I mentioned early on. It wasn't all that bad to read though.

[nessgavin]

I'm glad I just found this forum. I have been reading Don Quixote for a couple of weeks. I'm up to chapter 23. I'm in love with this book. I think it has so many ideas and themes, it's like a kalaidoscope, an illusion itself.

I am taking a class on this and find my reactions to be different than most of the people in the class. I'd love to bounce my ideas off of someone else.

[nessgavin]

I'm enjoying everyone's posts although I'm a bit late. I've just begun reading Part 2. Don Quixote is obsessing me and I think it may be the greatest novel I've ever read. Trying to determine what is real and what is illusion...that's life, isn't it?

I've been reading my whole life and I think that sometimes that can remove you from the truth. Movies as well. Any art. Life is not a story, a painting or a movie. There are times in my life when the unexpected catastrophe left me confused. Doesn't there have to be a happy ending? Sometimes it seems life is one long process of disillusionment, exactly like this book.

[Virgil]

Welcome to lit net Ness. I'm glad you're enjoying it. It really was a wonderful book.

[nessgavin]

Glad I found this thread. I had totally forgotten that he'd killed someone! No wonder my classmates don't like him. This is a very complicated book and can't be read quickly.

[grace86]

Glad I found this thread. I had totally forgotten that he'd killed someone! No wonder my classmates don't like him. This is a very complicated book and can't be read quickly.

Glad you found the thread too! Welcome to LitNet. I saw you were reading Don Quixote from one of the other threads, and Janine told you to head this way. Anything you feel like discussing on Don Quixote of course is welcomed. I am interested in hearing your thoughts and reactions that seem to be different than your classmates'! I read it the summer before this one, but I will be happy to go back to it!

[nessgavin]

I not only feel that I'm reading DonQuixote, I'm living it. I see him every day in myself and in others and the world in general.

I was very upset about the election results. It hit me harder than any other election. Somehow it meshed with my reading of DQ. Then, it occurred to me, last saturday night, that I'd lost my mind, just as DQ had! The beginning of the book says that if you read too much you will lose your mind. In one moment I realized that I had lost my mind as I was reading DQ as history. It was real to me. But there is no DQ or Sancho. This is fiction. Then I realized the point Cervantes was making. I had gotten sucked in, just as DQ had. The poems, the historical tidbits (the battle of Lepanto, etc), the Arab translator, helped me to believe the story was true. But it's not. When we read enough books and see enough movies and tv shows, we start to believe that real life has "rules". Like the rules of "knight errantry". We apply the rules to real life as though real life has to conform to them. And when they don't, we're shocked and disillusioned.
That's where the election comes in. The war hero is supposed to win. The man who dedicated his life to his country and held up honor above self-interest, who honored his contract to limit campaign funds, refused to be released from a prison camp early, etc. is supposed to win. But this is not a story. this is real life and the man who broke the contract won. I don't want to get too political about this, but it put me in a funk for over a week. I did not realize that part of the reason was my disillusionment. As has happened at other times in my life I've had expectations based on literature or movies and when the happy ending doesn't happen, it's more than disappointment or saddness, it's a kind of confusion that sets in. I feel like saying "Wait! That can't be right! This is not how it happens!" and, of course, that's exactly what DQ would say!

My class got it today. I think there are endless threads in this novel. I think it might be the best novel I have ever read as it never stops revealing it's secrets.

One more thing. Last week's class discussion brought Machiavelli to mind. His book (The Prince) was published some years before DQ and I think that it is reflected in the book. Machiavelli basically said that real life has no moral rules. Breaking the contract is the way to win. Honor is pointless. The ends justify the means. I think that Cervantes idealism was crushed by the world. He was a war hero. He got no reward. His disillusionment and possibly his understanding of and acceptance of Machiavelli's truth is reflected in the this book. I should mention that I have not yet finished the book so I can't really make any final conclusions.

[Joe Beamish]

I want to read Quixote for the first time, but am confused about which translation to proceed with.

John Updike says he prefers the Motteux translation for its "peppery stew", next to which the most recent translations seem "watery". However, this same Motteux translation was famously dubbed "worthless" by a later translator, John Ormsby.

Should I just go forward with Grossman? Or what? There are at least three English translations even in the last decade....

Thanks
JB

[Virgil]

I want to read Quixote for the first time, but am confused about which translation to proceed with.

John Updike says he prefers the Motteux translation for its "peppery stew", next to which the most recent translations seem "watery". However, this same Motteux translation was famously dubbed "worthless" by a later translator, John Ormsby.

Should I just go forward with Grossman? Or what? There are at least three English translations even in the last decade....

Thanks
JB

Read through this thread from the beginning. We discuss translations.

[nessgavin]

I'm reading the Raffel translation.