Which do you believe is the best Dostoevsky novel?
Which do you believe is the best Dostoevsky novel?
Between the two you listed, I'd say The Idiot is far better. I don't think it's his best work though.
Noću, u intimnom, poluglasnom razgovoru sa samim sobom, nikako ne mogu zapravo logički opravdati zašto se u posljednje vrijeme toliko uzrujavam zbog ljudske gluposti.
Miroslav Krleža
Haven't read The Demons yet, only The Idiot. I did like The Idiot.
It's hard to pick between them because they are very different books. It's hard for me to say I loved The Idiot because it was just such a devastating book, it was well written, incredibly thought provoking but it's not something I would ever put myself through again. On the other hand, I loved The Posessed! It's like a snapshot of the era, you see the beginnings of the revolution, the unrest and social chaos leading up to it, I loved the characters, the plot, it is a book that I will read again and in fact, have read multiple times. If I was recommending one or the other, I would recommend The Posessed over The Idiot simply because of the overwhelming emotional response I had to the later...but maybe that in and of itself speaks to it's genius.
the luminous grass of the prairie hides
feet lovely and still as sleeping doves,
porcelain bones strong enough to carry a life,
but weighty and unmovable
As black Dakota hills. ~ Riesa
I believe that Dostevsky is the greatest of the great Russian writers and The Idiot is one of his best books, if not the best. You do need patience to go through it as it is a slow and a bit laborious read. Don't start it unless you are sure that you are in a mood to read such a thought-provoking but slow book. I would start with Notes from the Underground (a full blast of Dostoevskian angst in a little tiny parcel) and work my way up towards The Brothers Karamazov. I would recommend reading The Possessed before The Idiot but the latter book is a major, major achievement not only in Dostoevsky's works but in the world literature.
On another note, I read Russian folk-tale called Ivanoshka the Idiot yesterday. This notion of a holy, simple, artless, sinless yet perceptive, courageous and daring persona is deeply rooted in the Russian psyche. I have read quite a number of Russian folk-tales where the simple, unassuming person rises up to the occasion when all heroes either flee or fall. So very different from our celebrity-obsessed fake age. The Idiot changed my life for good. I read it 18 years ago at the tender age of 20, it sealed my fate and decided for me the more laborious, less profitable but more (spiritually) fulfilling path for the rest of my life.
"The farther he goes the more good it does me. I don’t want philosophies, tracts, dogmas, creeds, ways out, truths, answers, nothing from the bargain basement. He is the most courageous, remorseless writer going and the more he grinds my nose in the sh1t the more I am grateful to him..."
-- Harold Pinter on Samuel Beckett
'The Idiot' is a rather abysmal novel, Dostoevskii's wors, actually C&P is his worst novel. The Brothers Karamazov and The Double are his best novels, though the former is overly-long and, like almost all Dostoevskii, tendentious. The 'Grand Inquisitor' chapter is extraordinary however. I always like to think that Dostoevskii is a brilliant philosopher, but a over-rated author-he is certainly nowhere near the level of the other great Russian prose-writers (in this order) Tolstoi, Bely, Gogol, Turgenev, Lermentov.
Surely you are not referring to the great, A la recherche du temps perdu?So very different from our celebrity-obsessed fake age
Last edited by Inderjit Sanghe; 07-28-2008 at 09:17 AM.
The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness.-Vladimir Nabokov
human speech is like a cracked kettle on which we tap crude rhythms for bears to dance to, while we long to make music that will melt the stars-Flaubert
Two blasphemies in one post, I am amazed! I don't know about you but Dostoevsky changed my life. Tolstoy wrote a lot of forgettable stuff (I have read Anna Karenina thrice, all I can remember is the train station!) I have never forgotten anything written by Dostoevsky. He is GOD (with all three capital letters). We, who read in translation, can not judge the stylistic merits of his writing. I do like Tugenev and Lermontov though but they are no gods when it comes to that. Because of the linguistic constraints we will have to do with the philosophical dimension of Russian writing and nobody can even come near Dostoevsky in that respect, nobody in the entire world literature. I know there are objections concerning his style but I can't read Russian therefore can't comment on that. I don't find any loose-ends in the plots of his great novels. He shows the Russian soul at its worst and at its best. This is the great joy of being able to read good books: they show you humanity in its amazing diversity and complexity.Originally Posted by Inderjit Sanghe
'The Idiot' is a rather abysmal novel, Dostoevskii's wors, actually C&P is his worst novel. The Brothers Karamazov and The Double are his best novels, though the former is overly-long and, like almost all Dostoevskii, tendentious. The 'Grand Inquisitor' chapter is extraordinary however. I always like to think that Dostoevskii is a brilliant philosopher, but a over-rated author-he is certainly nowhere near the level of the other great Russian prose-writers (in this order) Tolstoi, Bely, Gogol, Turgenev, Lermentov.
Surely you are not referring to the great, A la recherche du temps perdu?
"The farther he goes the more good it does me. I don’t want philosophies, tracts, dogmas, creeds, ways out, truths, answers, nothing from the bargain basement. He is the most courageous, remorseless writer going and the more he grinds my nose in the sh1t the more I am grateful to him..."
-- Harold Pinter on Samuel Beckett
Speaking personally, which is to say personally speaking (but let's not descend into glib Carollian puns) no work of fiction has ever changed my life.I don't know about you but Dostoevsky changed my life.
Tolstoi- forgettable?! Now that is blasphemy! Anna Karenin is far superior to anything which Dostoevskii ever wrote, but then again, Tolstoi does not descend into the platitudes and plenitudes of human existence, or into soporific solemnisations on spurious subjects, such as the 'human condition' via deranged, toally fake, totally forced. Deranged sociopaths, noble prostitutes, proto-Nazi intellectuals and other such trash. If all you can remember is the train station then why on earth did you read it again? The art of Tolstoi is eternal, whilst the art of Dostoevskii is ephermeal and unoriginal, by it's very nature. Dostoevskii's characters are, by and large, poorly and banally characterised, spouting philsophical persiflage like nothing else.Tolstoy wrote a lot of forgettable stuff (I have read Anna Karenina thrice, all I can remember is the train station!)
Tolstoi, of course, has his weak points, the final 20 or so pages of 'Anna' are as banal as anything out of Dostoevskii, as are his sententious religious meanderings-but the preceding pages are the work of a genius.
I also dislike glib, catch-all phrases such as "show the Russian soul at it's worst and best" and "show you humanity" etc. etc., which so often precede praise of Dostoevskii.
Last edited by Inderjit Sanghe; 07-28-2008 at 12:42 PM.
The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness.-Vladimir Nabokov
human speech is like a cracked kettle on which we tap crude rhythms for bears to dance to, while we long to make music that will melt the stars-Flaubert
I don't think I've come across a comment on LitNet with which I disagreed more. Not looking to start a "fight", just saying.
Umm... Didn't you just answer your own question?If all you can remember is the train station then why on earth did you read it again?
By the way, it's Anna Karenina, Karenin would be the last name of a man, while women in Russia get that "a" at the end. (a very banal example: Marat Safin, Dinara Safina)
Noću, u intimnom, poluglasnom razgovoru sa samim sobom, nikako ne mogu zapravo logički opravdati zašto se u posljednje vrijeme toliko uzrujavam zbog ljudske gluposti.
Miroslav Krleža
So its got to be:
1) Tolstoy
2) Tolkien
3) ??? JK Rowling
I read great books. Some of them work for me, some don't. I still can't find anything by Tolstoy that works for me, except War and Peace which, I think (for all that it's worth!), is the grandest creation of human imagination along with King Lear and Michelangelo's work in the Sistine Chapel.
I don't think I need to defend a writer against charges which are just not right, in fact they are too wrong to be dealt with in any manner. I will leave it at that!
And yes books change lives, books change history. Ideas have consequences!
Last edited by Kafka's Crow; 07-30-2008 at 10:49 AM.
"The farther he goes the more good it does me. I don’t want philosophies, tracts, dogmas, creeds, ways out, truths, answers, nothing from the bargain basement. He is the most courageous, remorseless writer going and the more he grinds my nose in the sh1t the more I am grateful to him..."
-- Harold Pinter on Samuel Beckett
Levin is probably the most complex Tolstoy's character, and he and Anna Karenina are his only truly well made characters. But still, they are uncomparable with Raskolnikov, Myshkin, Underground Man, Ivan Karamazov, maybe Alyosha also.
Do you think Natasha is similar with Kitty? Alyosha-Andrew, Anatol-Veslovsky, Levin-Pierre...? Too many similar characters and happenings; there are too many similarities between War and Peace and Anna Karenina.
Don't get me wrong, but this is the stupidest opinion I ever seen on this forum. I am sorry.I always like to think that Dostoevskii is a brilliant philosopher, but a over-rated author-he is certainly nowhere near the level of the other great Russian prose-writers (in this order) Tolstoi, Bely, Gogol, Turgenev, Lermentov.
At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.
To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
If you need me urgent, send me a PM
Vronsky takes my fancy. Towards the end, he seems more nuanced than Anna and more human than Levin.
Actually, Dostoevsky does have a lot of leitmotivs in his characters, notably the women characters and not exclusively. I've said in another topic that I believe Dostoevsky is overrated, I do not however agree with Sanghe's opinion, although I do think he as some points, his conclusions are far from mine (less radical would be the right term).
I do not think his opinion his devoid of value. Dostoevsky's strength is obviously his great insight in the human mind, his weakness, the very unpolished and sometimes sketchy nature of his novels.Don't get me wrong, but this is the stupidest opinion I ever seen on this forum. I am sorry.
And remember that I am not trying to say that Dostoevsky is not good, I've read quite a few books from him and will read more, I love Dostoevsky, and he is without a doubt one of the great pillars of literature. I just don't think he is GodRabelais is
.
Last edited by Etienne; 08-24-2008 at 07:58 PM.
Et l'unique cordeau des trompettes marines
Apollinaire, Le chantre
Notes From the Underground changed my life. It was the best for me, because it turned me on to Dostoevsky himself
"real
loneliness
is not
necessarily
limited to
when
you are
alone"
-C. Bukowski
Unpolished and sketchy? Having read half a dozen novels, I haven't noticed this defect. Do other lovers of Dostoevsky agree with this criticism? I thought 'The Idiot' exquisite.
I look forward to reading the book.
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