Good point about why Milton need to soften Evil. Maybe he was gay man?Originally Posted by JBI
Good point about why Milton need to soften Evil. Maybe he was gay man?
No he was not.
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
Wow, border line bigotry.
Either way, a) his sexual persuasion has nothing to do with this discussion, b) what does that have to do with Milton being sympathetic to the devil.
Milton didn't soften evil, he just mixed Shakespeare's sympathies in there. The same way Shakespeare makes Macbeth sympathetic, Milton tried to make Satan sympathetic, as to, I guess, sell more copies, or go down as a literary genius.
MacBeth is sympathetic? Where? And what bigotry are you talking about. If anyone knows anything about Milton's life he was in no way gay.
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about Hypercrit. By associated the softening of evil with homosexuality, one is essentially correlating evil sympathies (in this case talking about the devil, who is an icon of evil in the world) with homosexuality.
Ok, it seemed you were responding to me.You should quote the person you're responding to.
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
Would Satan DIE for you?
Jesus died for you. Satan is nothing but a liar and the father of lies. To "rebel" against God is like a child "rebelling" against his father by playing in traffic.
... Or a partisan standing up to a Nazi, or perhaps an American standing up to British forces? Was not the American revolution a satanic overthrowing of the Mother Country. But of course, when its politics we can act, but when it is religion we cannot act.
Milton essentially took a reoccuring myth, that of the overthrowing of the old by the new, as seen in many diverse forms of mythology, though he seems to have got it from the Greek creation cycle, and then later heroic cycles, and adapted it to an interpretation of the Bible. The story itself is as old as literature, though it is not really rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition until Milton. In truth, the classical Jewish literary tradition doesn't have much of a heroic background. The closest thing to a hero is Samson, and he really isn't much of a hero, as compared to Achilles. King David versus Goliath isn't representing David's strength, but merely God's favor.
The heroic tradition enters later, brought in from the surrounding areas, especially Rome, who was constantly at war with the nation of Judea, culminating in the Bar Kockbah Revolt, which essentially ended the classical period of Judaism, and set off the exile of both the Christians and the Jews from Judea, then renamed Palestine.
The actual traditional makeup of Satan is believed by some to come from Zarathustrian sources, from Persia, and to have clashed with Judaic prophetic thought, predominantly Jeremiah, and then mixed in with the Roman religious traditions.
That being said, it is fine to believe Jesus died for your sins, and the devil is evil, but it is also possible to believe the devil sympathetic. In truth, many distinguish between the God in the Old Testament and the God in the New Testament. The new God can be seen as a rebellion against the old God, as he was (according to many scholars and theologians) an authoritative crazy, selfish, egomaniac, whereas Christian morality seems to go against those notions.
Well according to the story of Eden, it was ultimately Satan that gave man knowledge and wisdom. If Satan had not tempted Eve, than within the Bible man would have simply lived like nothing but children, in complete ignorance, being completely subservient, not knowing they had a choice, or free-will.
To me personally that sort of "Utopia" is not in the least appealing.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe
Genesis said that Satan gave man the knowledge of good and evil, since man was made in a perfect state he naturally had knowledge of good therefore Satan only gave man the knowledge of evil.
If the concept of Satan (as distinct from various spirits and "devils" found in some Eastern religions,) comes from books such as the Bible, Torah and Koran where he is depicted as evil; it only makes sense to believe he is evil. If you think all those books are wrong and disbelieve in the concept of an evil Satan those books depict, would it not make sense that you disbelieve in the existence of Satan?
Because if the books lie about Satan's evil state they may just be lies/fairy tales? Or are you going to just pick and choose the parts of the Bible etc. you wish to believe in?
Actually I do not believe in any of it. I was just speaking in hypothetical terms. And answering your question based on a story within the bible and my own personal interpretation of it. But I do not believe in Satan or God or the bible. I have my own chosen beliefs.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe
DearDark Muse even though I do not agree with you,your views do seem (to me) to make more sense than those of some others here.
Thank you
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe
Who am I to put God and the devil this way but its kinda like when you and your little brother are fighting over the remote and you beat you brother then you trap your little brother in a cage so its kinda like Satan was an angel the tried to take power and god trapped him in hell for it and the devil gets a choice go to god or die but in the end got will bring back all of us Christians and the devil will die and we spent eternal life in heaven.
God would consider you a lost lost child.
my b-day is on july, 18 so visit my blognow.... its.... PARTY TIME
Whose/who's god. The God of the old Testament has nothing to do with Satan, as he doesn't take form until the new Testament, and every mention of him in the Old book is a interpretation, and not actually there (he didn't seduce Eve in the Garden of Eden, that is an interpretation from Christian theologians and writers). I am rather, embarrassingly unfamiliar with the Koran, so I cannot comment there, but one must ask which bible you are reading first, and second, whose theology you are believing.
Even the concepting of the existence of god can lead to problems. For instance, if one takes a Miomodesian approach to god, and says he is everything, than naturally he is the devil, and sin, as well as the good things in the world. If one takes a Spinozian interpretation, than we hit dead ends. If one takes an Old Testament interpretation, it differs from a new Testament interpretation, if one believes in the Filioque Clause than god is different than if one doesn't.
Likewise, a Gnostic Christian will have a different interpretation, as will a follower of Milton, or a Baptist Christian. One must probe from more than one angle, instead of randomly yelling out offenses at anything that disagree, in order to continue this discussion. As Roger Bacon petitioned, one should approach the Bible with a doubt, and with Science and philosophy in mind, rather than approaching from a pre-determined bias, or from a pre-acceptance which leads to nothing.
Last edited by JBI; 06-21-2008 at 02:21 AM.
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