Second Language?

[sofia82]

I stopped studying Persian Lit back in 1987. It has been English Literature ever since. My teacher was Irani and I can still speak with his accent which amazes my Afghan colleagues at work! After all these years, I have come to the conclusion that Persian language has the best treasure of poetry. Unfortunately its effect can't be translated into English Language. I had a bilingual anthology of Modern Persian Poetry as well. Last time I saw it was in my sister's library. I didn't ask her to return it. She can keep it!

WOW! I was just 5. It is really amazing, it even amazes me.
Yes, unfortunately, it is not translatable into English. It is the same problem when one translates English into Persian, too. IN both cases, it becomes totally another poetry.

I stopped studying Persian Lit back in 1987. It has been English Literature ever since. My teacher was Irani and I can still speak with his accent which amazes my Afghan colleagues at work! After all these years, I have come to the conclusion that Persian language has the best treasure of poetry. Unfortunately its effect can't be translated into English Language. I had a bilingual anthology of Modern Persian Poetry as well. Last time I saw it was in my sister's library. I didn't ask her to return it. She can keep it!

WOW! I was just 5. It is really amazing, it even amazes me.
Yes, unfortunately, it is not translatable into English. It is the same problem when one translates English into Persian, too. IN both cases, it becomes totally another poetry. I'm so curious to talk to you in Persian

[NickAdams]

Does anyone think that a translation of Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam into Sanskrit, rather than english, might be closer in context?

[Kafka's Crow]

WOW! I was just 5. It is really amazing, it even amazes me.
Yes, unfortunately, it is not translatable into English. It is the same problem when one translates English into Persian, too. IN both cases, it becomes totally another poetry. I'm so curious to talk to you in Persian

Tres interesante! My Persian is very, very rusty after all those years. I can read and understand but vocabulary is largely gone when it comes to speaking. I know quite a bit of poetry and proverbs by heart which helps when it comes to impressing people (khrs der koh bu Ali Sina!). I can get it back within a few weeks if I try and I WILL try very soon. My 'Parisian' is much better than my Persian these days!

Please don't make me feel so old! It was only yesterday when I was in my late twenties, simultaneously loving Rage Against the Machine, Samuel Beckett, Dostoevsky and motorcycles! Time flies.

Nick Adams!
I don't know much about Sansikrit. The language of Hindu scriptures that I have heard is very, very different from Persian. Urdu is much closer as it stems from Persian and its literature is rooted in Persian Literature. Most other languages from the sub-continent are more closely related to Sansikrit. But then Sansikrit itself is related to most languages. Still its sound pattern is very different from Persian. There is only one word to describe the sound of the Persian words shireen, sweet, absolutely sweet.

[NickAdams]

Nick Adams!
I don't know much about Sansikrit. The language of Hindu scriptures that I have heard is very, very different from Persian. Urdu is much closer as it stems from Persian and its literature is rooted in Persian Literature. Most other languages from the sub-continent are more closely related to Sansikrit. But then Sansikrit itself is related to most languages. Still its sound pattern is very different from Persian. There is only one word to describe the sound of the Persian words shireen, sweet, absolutely sweet.

Is this a full list of the Alefba?

[sofia82]

Tres interesante! My Persian is very, very rusty after all those years. I can read and understand but vocabulary is largely gone when it comes to speaking. I know quite a bit of poetry and proverbs by heart which helps when it comes to impressing people (khrs der koh bu Ali Sina!). I can get it back within a few weeks if I try and I WILL try very soon. My 'Parisian' is much better than my Persian these days!

Yes, using and repeating is the matter in language.

Please don't make me feel so old! It was only yesterday when I was in my late twenties, simultaneously loving Rage Against the Machine, Samuel Beckett, Dostoevsky and motorcycles! Time flies.

Do not feel so old! The age is not important how you feel and what you feel is important.
Mohem ineke delet javoon bashe (in persian)

Nick Adams!
I don't know much about Sansikrit. The language of Hindu scriptures that I have heard is very, very different from Persian. Urdu is much closer as it stems from Persian and its literature is rooted in Persian Literature. Most other languages from the sub-continent are more closely related to Sansikrit. But then Sansikrit itself is related to most languages. Still its sound pattern is very different from Persian. There is only one word to describe the sound of the Persian words shireen, sweet, absolutely sweet.

Absolutely sweet. Me neither. I do not know anything about Sanskirit.

Is this a full list of the Alefba?

Yes, exactly.

[Nightshade]

Is this a full list of the Alefba?

Queston now, at first glance I thought that was arabic, but it isnt but is the black or the pink persian?

[sofia82]

Queston now, at first glance I thought that was arabic, but it isnt but is the black or the pink persian?

Our letters are the same except four, which arabs does not have. It is interesting that although our alphabet is the same, but the root is different as I know. Even the original alphabet of Azeri and turkish are like this before changing into Latin. The alphabet we use for Azeri in Iran is these alphabet, fortunately it is not replaced with latin alphabet, although it is really difficult for reading. I myself cannot read just talk Azeri. No, all of them are persian letters but some in capital and some in small letters. or different form of writing depending on where they are placed in a word.

These letters are not in Arabic alphabet.




And about these red and black letters, let me explain by some examples.



This word means friend. Look at the red letter. If /sin/ comes in the middle, it is written in small letter (I don't know if I can call it small or not). But look at this word, which means diamond:



If /sin/ comes in the end, it is written like this.

Now compare others, still confused?!

Book.


English


Flower


Literature


Love


Sky

[Nightshade]

Ah I see of course! I didn't even notice that they were showing the diffrent ways of writing the letters they just looked like the letters to me.
So they have different roots? I didn't know that, but arabic has a letter you dont have, hamza, its the last letter.

[sofia82]

Ah I see of course! I didn't even notice that they were showing the diffrent ways of writing the letters they just looked like the letters to me.
So they have different roots? I didn't know that, but arabic has a letter you dont have, hamza, its the last letter.

Yes, in the alphabet we dont have hamze, but in writing especially those words borrowed from Arabic we use it. Although we changed it to ye nowadays, as the words seem more persian than Arabic. Do you know because of the religion Arabic had great impact on Persian language, although it is tried to make it more persian than Arabic.

And we dont have he with : pronounced te if not mistaken. instead we use he.

And this is exactly how the letters written in different places in Persian, too.
I correct myself of saying small or capital letter. It is beginning, middle, final, and stand-alone.

[Nightshade]

ah you mean the te marbootah I remeber once when I was little trying to read something that was written on a picture which I thought was arabic and getting really mad because it didn't make sense... turned out it was persian.
do you have the differnt sounds for each letter too? Like if it is followed by a yeh, alif,or wow...or depending on the tashkeel?

[sofia82]

ah you mean the te marbootah I remeber once when I was little trying to read something that was written on a picture which I thought was arabic and getting really mad because it didn't make sense... turned out it was persian.
do you have the differnt sounds for each letter too? Like if it is followed by a yeh, alif,or wow...or depending on the tashkeel?

Yes different sound for the same letters. Oh, it really is difficult for me to pronounce the words exactly like Arabs, we don't have such pronunciation, especially reading Quran. For example different t sounds.
About your question can you make an example, I didn't get what you mean by Tashkeel and you mwan te marbootah with different pronunciation.

We have proper Arabic names in Farsi which we do not pronunce this teh marboote any way like Fatemeh just he not te.

[Nightshade]

I see I mean let me think how to explain,.. teshkeel is the indicater for different sounds of the letter, so sometimes you have the fathah ( line above the letter)so the B letter would say Ba sometimes it has a line below the letter so B would say bee sometimes a dumah ( like a small wow ) so the letter would say Boo and then you have the other ones the names temorerialy escpe my mind so ben,bin,and boon(oo like book) and then skoon so it just says buh .
and then if you follow it with an alif..it would say Baaaa an a yeh would make it say beeee and a wow would make it say booooooo ( elongating the change sound)
now do you see what I was talking about?

[NickAdams]

Do you know because of the religion Arabic had great impact on Persian language, although it is tried to make it more persian than Arabic.

The spanish language also, because of the Moores in Spain. ال۔ or Al, a definite article (also a very interesting character in Persian and Armenian mythology), has become a prefix in the Spanish language: alacrán (scorpion); Alagoas, a state in Brazil; and the influence goes beyond this prefix.

if you follow it with an alif..it would say Baaaa

I find I have better comprehension when I know the history of its development: Alif (Arabic: ا, pronounced alif) is the first letter of the Arabic alphabet. Together with Hebrew Aleph, Greek Alpha and Latin A, it is descended from Phoenician āleph, from Proto-Canaanite alp "ox".

[Nightshade]

The spanish language also, because of the Moores in Spain. ال۔ or Al, a definite article (also a very interesting character in Persian and Armenian mythology), has become a prefix in the Spanish language: alacrán (scorpion); Alagoas, a state in Brazil; and the influence goes beyond this prefix.

Are you saying arabic influenced spanish, or vice versa?
Ive been wondering about czech and arabic lately if there are any links they use quite a few identical words and there are many shared sounds and basic sentence structure is similar too.

[NickAdams]

Are you saying arabic influenced spanish, or vice versa?
Ive been wondering about czech and arabic lately if there are any links they use quite a few identical words and there are many shared sounds and basic sentence structure is similar too.

I've just started a study of linguistics. I've gotten this sudden interest in the history of language, but there is still much I don't know.

Czech is a part of the Indo-European languages, while Arabic is one of the Semitic languages. Persian is a part of a sub-group in the Indo-European family, but Arabic and Persian still have commonalities.

Language, especially spoken, are in flux. Migration seems a great influence. The Romance languages, didn't stem from academic Latin but Vulgar Latin, that which was spoken by the common Roman.

You might find this article of interest, especially the section on language. It is about links between Celtics Israelites: http://beyondbabylon.blogspot.com/20...onalities.html