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Thread: Poetry Bookclub: Yeats's The Wild Swans at Coole

  1. #61
    Bibliophile JBI's Avatar
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    Yes, poem #3 was missed, and a very popular poem it is too. But lets talk about this one first, I guess, since it's already quite underway, and there is no need to digress now.

    This poem seems to me at first a play on Marlowe's Shepard to his Live, and other such pastoral style poems written in English, and the Greek tradition. He is lamenting, it would seem, his inability to go on consummating his relationship with the "nymph", in this case referring to young women, because he has grown old by the stream, and therefore cannot partake any more.

    The poem is loaded with allusions to old age, regret, and rings similar to Frost's Road not Taken, in the sense that it ponders, and laments, the linear flow of time, and talks about the regrets of aging, of knowing you had wasted time in your youth, and not being able to change anything.

    The poem itself seems rather simple, and flawed by language in many areas (the language has not reached the perfection Yeats achieved in other poems, and relies on simplistic imagery and repetitive words and lines), but still has something, that great line of irony:

    "Delighted to be but wise,
    For men improve with the years;
    And yet and yet
    Is this my dream, or the truth? "

    Yeats is asking if such knowledge and experience is said to increase man, are we but lying to ourselves. He is unable to do what he likes best, that is, attract and have a relationship with a nymph, and he realizes that everything else, the experience, the knowledge of the world, the successes and failures in his life, mean nothing, because though he understands, he cannot experience, and therefore is living through what cannot or had not been done, instead of what he wishes could be done.

  2. #62
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBI View Post
    This poem seems to me at first a play on Marlowe's Shepard to his Live, and other such pastoral style poems written in English, and the Greek tradition. He is lamenting, it would seem, his inability to go on consummating his relationship with the "nymph", in this case referring to young women, because he has grown old by the stream, and therefore cannot partake any more.
    That's a good parallel, JBI, but I think the theme may be more general here. The woman appears to the poet as more than just a romantic interest. She's the embodiment of the speaker's idea of beauty, and the poet is noticing--with mixed feelings--that he isn't as swayed by her as he used to be. Marlowe's pastoral is good place to start, but the poem goes beyond it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JBI View Post
    The poem is loaded with allusions to old age, regret, and rings similar to Frost's Road not Taken, in the sense that it ponders, and laments, the linear flow of time, and talks about the regrets of aging, of knowing you had wasted time in your youth, and not being able to change anything.
    Right, but just as in "The Wild Swans at Coole" the lament is softened by some positive feeling of wisdom. The line "For men improve with the years" gives him something to hold on to.

    Quote Originally Posted by JBI View Post
    The poem itself seems rather simple, and flawed by language in many areas (the language has not reached the perfection Yeats achieved in other poems, and relies on simplistic imagery and repetitive words and lines), but still has something, that great line of irony:
    The language is simple, but I think the pace of the poem is very well-done. It speeds up when he contemplates woman--as though his heart is racing. Then, it slows and breaks into a regular cadence when he talks about his wisdom. I don't think those four lines are irony, though. They seem more like ambiguity. The question at the end goes unanswered.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  3. #63
    Bibliophile JBI's Avatar
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    I interpreted the "for men improve with years" to be sarcastic, ironic.

  4. #64
    Registered User sofia82's Avatar
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    That's a good parallel, JBI, but I think the theme may be more general here. The woman appears to the poet as more than just a romantic interest. She's the embodiment of the speaker's idea of beauty, and the poet is noticing--with mixed feelings--that he isn't as swayed by her as he used to be. Marlowe's pastoral is good place to start, but the poem goes beyond it.
    I agree with Quark. It is a good parallel, but more than that one. Although both can be correct. It is a kind of lamentation or elegy but it depends on what you consider this lady in beauty. If she is the embodiment of romantic interest as the love, yes it is parallel to Marlowe's poetry and she is the nymph. But if she is the emblem of idea of beauty (Quark said) and I call it artistic beauty (as Dark Muse said the Muse), it is more than a pastoral poetry with romantic interest.

    Pleased to have filled the eyes
    Or the discerning ears,
    I think "filled the eyes and discerning ears" represent the art in different forms (for Yeats maybe poetry) besides the beauty of the lady. And this "discerning ears" may represent the songs/poems by the Muses. So, in addition to the beauty in appearance there is the beauty in sounds (spoken/musical).

    Right, but just as in "The Wild Swans at Coole" the lament is softened by some positive feeling of wisdom. The line "For men improve with the years" gives him something to hold on to.
    JBI said it is ironic and sarcastic, and you said it gives him something to hold on to. A question, does Yeats put the idea of poetic genius and experience against each other? (Experience vs. genius)?

    The language is simple, but I think the pace of the poem is very well-done. It speeds up when he contemplates woman--as though his heart is racing. Then, it slows and breaks into a regular cadence when he talks about his wisdom. I don't think those four lines are irony, though. They seem more like ambiguity. The question at the end goes unanswered.
    I like the idea of the pace of the poem.
    Art is a lie that leads to the truth.
    --Picasso

  5. #65
    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    subtle symbols

    Yeats very subtly, even sub-consciously brings celtic

    sybols and druidic concepts to these poems, giving

    them another dimension and fatalistic ambiance.

    This comes off with the lightest of touch, in my

    view. In "An Irish Airman Forsees His Death" the

    concept of fate, the cross (celtic cross, melding the

    Christian cross with a circle), the "lonely impulse of

    delight" which here is to die at an apex of life. Also

    the use of balance, also a pagan concept with much

    wider parameters than today's usage. In "The

    Collar-bone of a Hare", the title refers to a symbol

    from celtic/pagan usage where a druid would look

    through the circular hole in said bone to see the

    past or similar type divination. Playing the pipes is

    an obvious reference and piercing with a gimlet has

    the extended meaning as a corkscrew would twist

    and pierce simultaneously. Laughing over quiet

    (untroubled) waters is equally druidic. These

    concepts add to these poems in an almost

    diaphanous way, but with heavy effect.

  6. #66
    Registered User quasimodo1's Avatar
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    Anyone care to bring this relaxed thread back to life.

  7. #67
    Registered User sofia82's Avatar
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    I wonder, too. What about next poem?!
    Art is a lie that leads to the truth.
    --Picasso

  8. #68
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    I do hope the discussion continues. I'd like to stop in and make a post every once in a while, but I'm too busy elsewhere on LitNet to contribute frequently.

    Where are we in The Wild Swans at Coole, anyway?
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  9. #69
    Bibliophile JBI's Avatar
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    An Irish Airman foresees his Death


    I KNOW that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross, 5
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public man, nor cheering crowds, 10
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind 15
    In balance with this life, this death.

  10. #70
    Bibliophile JBI's Avatar
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    ... anyone still interested in this?

  11. #71
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Oh I did not know a new poem was posted. For some reason I did not get the e-mail thingy to notify me of new replies untill just now

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  12. #72
    Bibliophile JBI's Avatar
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    OK, here's the question, what is this "lonely impulse of delight" that drove him to the skies, and his inevitable death?

  13. #73
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    This poem seems to be a bit more pessimistic than the ones we have previous read, though following much the same themes as the previous poems. Though I am not sure if this one is so much about the idea of growing in years, but rather it seems like a complete resignation to death.

    Those that I fight I do not hate
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross, 5
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public man, nor cheering crowds, 10
    A lonely impulse of delight
    He does not express any love, nor care for anything. He does not care about his fellow man or his country, nor honor and glory, but rather he seems to be completely apathetic and the only reason he has gone to fight, is perhaps to quicken is death.

    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    These lines seem to suggest that life in itself is a waste because he knows he is going to die, so there really is no point to living at all.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  14. #74
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiquarian View Post
    Does: Those that I fight I do not hate/ Those that I guard I do not love” refer to the plight of the Irish airmen in the war? They had to fight for Britain, not Ireland, specifically, so they did not "love" those they had to guard.
    It could, though he states that he he was not made to fight, but choose to do so of his own accord.

    After reading this poem over a few times, and considering some of the past poems we have looked at, I do not think that this poem was meant to be partrotic or political in anyway. But it seems to be about a man whom has simply given up and accepted that death is inescapable so he might as well just give himself over to it.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  15. #75
    please help me ihave to submit an assignment tommorow for the following line plz help me itz urgent

    i have looked upon those brilliant creatures,
    and now my heart is sore.

    and this line also plz help me fast itz urgent

    their hearts have not grown old;

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